Will you ever use Outboard gear for mixing/mastering

[pingu]

What do you guys think about the newbies in this game.

I cant see them ever having to use outboard gear.

[XSergeantD]

That would be a sad story.


Would be like them getting married and still wearing a condom when they try to make children.

[pingu]

And poke a hole in the end when they want kids.

[Jazzpunk]

Originally Posted by pingu

And poke a hole in the end when they want kids.

Except the hole is digital so there is nowhere to poke.

[djui5]

This is a really good question pingu, and a sierous thread considering changes in the industry.

Whoever records audio will always use rack gear, or maybe not. But mixing, that's a different story alltogether.

I have no rack gear in my room at all and have turned out some really good mixes with it....so who knows what it will be like 15 years from now. I do know that not all of the "big console" studios will go away. That would be crazy talk.

[dreamsongs]

Originally Posted by pingu

What do you guys think about the newbies in this game.

I cant see them ever having to use outboard gear.

There will never (at least for now) be any plug-ins that will sound as good as high end gear. In the meantime, I will continue using my outboard until some company someday proves me wrong ...

[rico52]

The only plug ins I will ever use will be Glades

[JohnNy C]

Originally Posted by dreamsongs

There will never (at least for now) be any plug-ins that will sound as good as high end gear. In the meantime, I will continue using my outboard until some company someday proves me wrong ...

I second that one. My home studio is mostly ITB as far as mixing goes (except for synths, I will NEVER get rid of hardware synths/drum machines) but as far as cutting vocals and a band, a pro studio can never be beat.

[echorec]

Originally Posted by dreamsongs

There will never (at least for now) be any plug-ins that will sound as good as high end gear. In the meantime, I will continue using my outboard until some company someday proves me wrong ...

I agree with that and I have a room full of great outboard equipment which I never will get rid of. However, pingus question is very relevant because the younger guys are happy and creative with what they get in the computer and don´t know (and don´t care) about the difference of a Rev D 1176 and a UAD 1176.

[thethrillfactor]

As long as their is a forumn called GEARSLUTZ I would hope so.


Plugins-Slutz just doesn't have the same ring to it.


Also people will always wonder"how does so and so get this sound" and when they learn that their is outboard gear involved the cycle will start again.

And the prices of the vintage stuff goes up.

[lofi]

do i smell elitism ? i hope not...

did we ever tried water from well and bucket or we just drank water from our pipe in the kitchen all our life ?

did we ever tried horses or we traveled only by cars ?

did we ever sent a real letter or just emails ?

oh yea...water from well taste better... live long and prosper..

(and plz cheer up while doing it )

[Jules]

I wonder how much outboard Mike Shipley & George Massenburg are using in their IconD equipped studios on mixes these days?

Perhaps we are standing at a junction

Left is the choice to use plug ins for mixing - with that goes a comitment to get skilled at using the latest and greatest. Also with it is probably a hope that plug ins will keep improving and will catch up with the sounds possible with hardware

The middle road is the analog hardware and digital plug in hybrid route.. Using both

Right is the analog mixer / hardware route

[Mike Tholen]

I turned Right...but sometimes I veer over to the middle lane but not for too long as I love to make right turns.fuuck

[raal]

Originally Posted by Jules

I wonder how much outboard Mike Shipley & George Massenburg are using in their IconD equipped studios on mixes these days?

Mike has stated how he works here on GS, and GM doesn't keep the way he works a big secret. i think the tendency is clear. two/three years ago i would have said there ain't a plug i'd feel comfortable adding high end with for example. boy has that changed.

nonetheless i have a room full of outboard that i love and think i'd keep even if plugs sounded as good. why? for tracking, it feels great to tweak real knobs and look at the stuff, and it doesn't hurt that alot of it actually appreciates with time. i for one look forward to the time plugs are every bit as good or better, but i really don't get the analog vs. digital discussion much. fact is the amount of choices we have grows day to day. what's wrong with that? well maybe if george martin had everything at his disposal back then that we have now, alot of the genius that came out of the beatles wouldn't have.... who knows?

Perhaps we are standing at a junction

Left is the choice to use plug ins for mixing - with that goes a comitment to get skilled at using the latest and greatest. Also with it is probably a hope that plug ins will keep improving and will catch up with the sounds possible with hardware

The middle road is the analog hardware and digital plug in hybrid route.. Using both

Right is the analog mixer / hardware route

long as human voices and eardrums aren't virtual, i think we're all pretty much stuck on the middle road.

[robot gigante]

I think the answer is of course!

Every person I know of that started out all digital in the last few years and stuck with it enough to start making money at it has moved to integrating hardware in their setup once they spent some time with it.

Things are changing, but I don't think that just because someone starts out with software and becomes comfortable using it doesn't mean that they will keep their minds closed to whatever tools will help them work better, which often means a move to hardware, at least from what I've seen, just as people have moved from consoles and tape to digital or hybrid setups.

There are a few people that seem to make an issue out of going with all digital as a matter of principle, to "take on" people who use analog hardware so to speak but I've only encountered them online (not counting non-professionals of course).

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I would be very suprised if people starting to engineer now would stay with software now and forever- that hasn't been what I've observed.

[AB3]

As a total gearslut in need of intensive treatment, I must say that it is critical to have as many plugins and hardware components available that do different things and sound different. Sometimes a plugin will provide the sound that is wanted. Somtimes hardware will. But why not have it all?

[dreamsongs]

We are nowhere near the point where the top engineers and top level mixers are even considering using plug-ins...

When that begins to happen, we will have turned the corner...

[not_so_new]

Originally Posted by dreamsongs

We are nowhere near the point where the top engineers and top level mixers are even considering using plug-ins...

When that begins to happen, we will have turned the corner...

Really?? Nowhere near the point? Tell that to Charles Dye.

[djui5]

Originally Posted by dreamsongs

We are nowhere near the point where the top engineers and top level mixers are even considering using plug-ins...

When that begins to happen, we will have turned the corner...

Well, go ahead and put your blinker on there beefcakes....we're turning the corner.

Numerous "top engineers/mixers" have been quoted as using plug-ins for various things.

[Brad Blackwood]

I have no idea what the future holds, but I do know that many clients proclaim their happiness with the 'depth' and 'effortlessness' of the masters cut at Euphonic. I attribute much of that to the (analog) chain used...

[steveH]

Originally Posted by dreamsongs

We are nowhere near the point where the top engineers and top level mixers are even considering using plug-ins...

When that begins to happen, we will have turned the corner...

Any specific names of top engineers and level mixers you care to mention?

[True North]

Originally Posted by dreamsongs

We are nowhere near the point where the top engineers and top level mixers are even considering using plug-ins...

When that begins to happen, we will have turned the corner...

I guess it depends when you say top........ if you are talking about the Lord Alges or Clearmountain you may be right but I think that is more a function of where and when they learnt their craft.

As already mentioned Shipley and GM are using plugs, heck GM even help design a few. IMHO there more than a few 'top' engineers using plugs. So by your definition we are well around the corner.

The bigger question is whether the newer breed will want or need to use analog outboard gear (other than mic pres of course). As years pass and as plugs continue to improve I beleive that it will become less and less common for AE's and ME's to use Analog outboard gear. It is already happening

[johnjm22]

Originally Posted by pingu

What do you guys think about the newbies in this game.

I cant see them ever having to use outboard gear.

Well I am one those newbies so I'll give you my perspective on it.

I've been mixing/recording for about 3 years. I've got 2 full length albums under my belt and numerous demos.

I've never done single mix on a console, and I've never used any outboard gear on a mix.

Honestly, I don't feel comfortable mixing with a console or with outboard gear. I think it's just a result of growing up in the digital age and doing all my learning ITB.

It's funny how I always hear people say they can't mix with a mouse because I can't mix without one!

I think one of the biggest factors that scares me about mixing on a console and with outboard eqs/comps ect. is not having total recall. I can only speak for myself but not having exact totall recall would make me really paranoid, and it would messup my work flow.

Maybe if I actually get to use some good hardware gear one day and it sounds really good, I'll start integrating some analog equipment into my setup, but right now I just can't imagine using any ouboard stuff. Too inconvient/uncomfortable.

[pingu]

Originally Posted by johnjm22

Well I am one those newbies so I'll give you my perspective on it.

I've been mixing/recording for about 3 years. I've got 2 full length albums under my belt and numerous demos.

I've never done single mix on a console, and I've never used any outboard gear on a mix.

Honestly, I don't feel comfortable mixing with a console or with outboard gear. I think it's just a result of growing up in the digital age and doing all my learning ITB.

It's funny how I always hear people say they can't mix with a mouse because I can't mix without one!

I think one of the biggest factors that scares me about mixing on a console and with outboard eqs/comps ect. is not having total recall. I can only speak for myself but not having exact totall recall would make me really paranoid, and it would messup my work flow.

Maybe if I actually get to use some good hardware gear one day and it sounds really good, I'll start integrating some analog equipment into my setup, but right now I just can't imagine using any ouboard stuff. Too inconvient/uncomfortable.

You are the future, and the gear asses around better start getting used to it.

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by johnjm22

I think one of the biggest factors that scares me about mixing on a console and with outboard eqs/comps ect. is not having total recall. I can only speak for myself but not having exact totall recall would make me really paranoid, and it would messup my work flow.

And recall has what to do with the sound of the mixes?

Its more a function than a piece of gear.


Actually its one of the things i feel that's caused today's productions to sound so boring.

Just the fact that people go over the stuff again and again thinking they are making it better is actually resulting in the opposite.

The magic of commiting to something gets robbed and homogenized.

Its funny as track counts have gone up through the roof the productions today sound much simpler than music of yester year.

[parloursound]

When ever this console/computer debate comes up no-one seems to mention the fun aspect. Mixing on a console is fun. If my whole day involved staring at a compter screen and using a mouse I don't think I'd bother. Might as when input numbers into a spead sheet - probably make more money doing that.

[RainbowStorm]

I think that outboard gear will gradually dissapear for the most part. I feel it's only a matter of time before the plug-ins outbeat them. Some professional mixers like Dave Pensado for instance has done double blind testing of outboard and plug-ins that do the same thing and has in many cases automatically selected the plug-ins as the better sounding ones. This indicates pretty well that there is great potential within software.

Also watch what has happened within sampling. In the past we got 16-bit packages that sounded static and digital. Today we have some massive packages out there on the market that even professionals have a hard time knowing it's not the real thing. And professionals really USE these because they sound better than hardware synths and almost as good as the real thing! I think when true 64-bit processing becomes the standard more and more studios will outsource their outboard equipment. It's simply much more versatile and simple to depend on digital technology, especially in the age of networking. There are a few difficult areas though where software can't emulate/simulate well enough. I'm thinking about for instance B3, drum samples and reverbs. But I think it's a matter of time. Until then I guess we have to use outboard gear at least for the critical processes like dimension and softness.

[toolstudio]

Originally Posted by johnjm22

I think one of the biggest factors that scares me about mixing on a console and with outboard eqs/comps ect. is not having total recall. I can only speak for myself but not having exact totall recall would make me really paranoid, and it would messup my work flow.

Really ?

I'm always wondering about people who recall so much.

To be honest, in the years I'm doing mixing and work in the studio, I did 5 recalls or better said I did 5 songs mix again all over.
These are 5 songs out of a trillion songs, albums, mixes I did.
O.K. probably it's because when I mix I have a quite complex setup, so write everything
down for "just in case" is just to much work.
There were a couple of situations where vocals should be more up,...or...or...or, but
most of that things we could work with the mixes I did (main mix-main vocal only; main mix-backings only; instr.; accapella;......
If there is something we are not sure about, most of the time we have that feeling while mixing, and I do some more "just in case" mixes.

To get back to the toppic again, I use plugins while producing and writing to get an idea how it could come out. But on the other hand I'm only using my macbook pro while composing and don't work in the SSL room, so I have no outboard.
While mixing I use rarely plugins and when I use them only for special fx I cant get with outboard, or fx I need to automate.

And the other effect I realise, beside the sound, is that as more and more think they can do the same ITB, the competition for people working with setups like mine, is getting less and less. I have just finished an album for a well known german artist
who mentioned why to work ITB when to go and use the real deal...... he won't pay anybody to look with him at a screen :-)
btw. I haven't believed that 1 year ago, but you know "a trend is just that"

wolfgang

[H-Rezz]

Originally Posted by dreamsongs

We are nowhere near the point where the top engineers and top level mixers are even considering using plug-ins...

When that begins to happen, we will have turned the corner...

What ? Mike Shipley , Serban Ghenea, Phil Tan,etc , are ham sandwiches ?

[aeroc]

Originally Posted by pingu

You are the future, and the gear asses around better start getting used to it.

you still need to get the sounds into the box. that's where hardware shines or removes the sheen and makes things nice. there's really no debate. tracking involves running a signal through proper equipment. pre/s di/s comps, etc. other things can be handled itb with automation.