Seventies Songwriters/Pop-Rock bands: What Gear & Rec. Techniques Spring to Mind?

[Open Sky]

Hey there folks. Maybe I'm stuck in the past, but I think the recorded sound of the pop music from the seventies sounds pretty perfect. I'm curious what gear and recording techniques come to mind when you think of those recordings.

At the risk of being majorly flamed, I'll mention some artists/groups whose general sound I'd like to understand better: The Eagles, Fleetwood Mac, Steely Dan, Gerry Rafferty, Joni Mitchell, Al Stewart, James Taylor, Seals and Crofts, Bread, America, Atlanta Rhythm Section, Player, Ambrosia etc.

So aside from the great arrangements, performances and songwriting involved, what contributes to this warm, spacious and uncluttered sound?

Thanks much. You guys rock.

[recky]

Great thread (even though no one's replied yet)!!!!

I happen to be listening to Neil Diamond's "12 Songs" right now, this album reminds me of what it's really all about - great songs.

Techniques: Well, stick a bunch of good, inspired (not necessarily virtuoso!) musicians into a room and let them play. The room would have to be really dry; the drums muffled (e.g. tea towels), a big pillow in the kick, a drummer with a fairly soft touch, fewer mics than today, a couple of great compressors, U87s all over the joint.....ah, well, tape.

Having said that, I've been getting into recreating the singer-songwriter sounds of the 70s recording onto HD, and have been pretty successful so far. I love it! A lot of "modern" music makes me sick. Boring shite!

Maybe more tomorrow - one too many glasses of Vernaccia di San Gimignano....

Cheers,

Recky

[vernier]

Hey there folks. Maybe I'm stuck in the past, but I think the recorded sound of the pop music from the seventies sounds pretty perfect. I'm curious what gear and recording techniques come to mind when you think of those recordings.

Recording-wise, early seventies, mid seventies, and late seventies were all quite different. As for the recordings you mentioned, those techniques would have been an extension of sixties recording: ...analog tape, no digital verb, good mic placement, not alot of mics on the drums. Equipment quickly changed during that decade, and imo, usually not for the better.

[vernier]

Btw, Gerry Rafferty, Joni Mitchell, and James Taylor are excellent examples of good analog. Crosby Stills & Nash were another.

[Oldone]

Real echo chambers for reverb. The classic array of Neumann mics, great consoles of the past, not necessarily NEVE and tape, of course. Oh, and compression used primarily to keep the needle from jumping off the record.

[andychamp]

Some factors may have been:
- tape
- limited quantity of available tracks
- EQs with fixed frequencies. Less choices, but easier to assign each element of a mix its own space
- no big (digital) synths with huge polyphony, reverb, chorus, pingpong delay and more reverb
- distortion was cool for playing long notes in a solo, but not for a wall of quadruple-tracked rythm guitars...and the bass...and the vocals...and the snare reverb
- musicians acknowledged the privilege of their way of making a living and derived some sense of responsibility towards the listener from it
- studio time was expensive, so live ensemble takes cost less than overdub orgies

[AlphaDingo]

Cocaine.

[Open Sky]

LOL!!!! That is so funny.
Thanks for all the post so far. This is just what I had in mind.

[The dman]

At the risk of sounding like a dinosaur the other day I heard some old Bad Company songs after not hearing them for a while and those boys just plain rocked.

Great songs, musicianship, arrangments. and of course Paul Rogers on Vocals. I was trying to pinpoint what it was that made them great and that's the 4 things I come up with.


Back to 2006

[Mike Tholen]

MORE COCAINE!!!

[u b k]

coke didn't worm it's way into the vibe of the music until the 80's.

70's had a little acid at the beginning, but other than that it was booze, downs, smack, and grass all the way thru. this is why the rock still rolled.


gregoire
del
ubk

[3rd world order]

Originally Posted by u b i k

coke didn't worm it's way into the vibe of the music until the 80's.

"there were lines on the mirror
lines on her face
she pretended not to notice
she was caught up in the race..." -- Eagles, Life in the Fast Lane (1976)

Eric Clapton, Cocaine, (1977)

etc...

[Open Sky]

Thanks again guys. I've got a few follow-up questions for ya'll:

Yes, as was mentioned by recky, the dead room / dry factor seems to have a lot to do with the spaciousness of the sound. Was that the way every instrument was handled, or just drums?

A couple of you mentioned that there was a limited number of drum mics. I guess I thought that the seventies drum sound used a mic on every drum. Am I wrong about that?

Bass strings: flat or round wound?

Also, should I assume that most of this stuff was done on either Neve or API? Haven't yet had the good fortune to work with either, so just taking an semi-educated guess here that it was one or the other for the most part.

Let me ask you this too--why, on all of this stuff, is the high end so smooth and the mid and low end so warm and full?

Many thanks!

Also, andychamp, very good point about the limited number of tracks they had. I kind of forgot about how much that mattered to the recording process.

[recky]

Well, if you listen to those recordings (particularly of the singer-songwriter/rock'n'roll genre) closely you'll find that reverb was used sparingly, in an attention-grabbing-effect kind of way, i.e. sometimes a lead vocal and/or lead guitar, occasionally snare, would have a real chamber reverb on it, the rest would often be left dry. And that "dry" was a combination of fairly close micing (as opposed to the two-mic approach of the 60s, i.e. main drum mic and outside bass drum) and a very dead room.
A typical early to mid 70s approach would have been to use "area" mics on the drum kit, i.e. snare/hi hat and a floor tom/ride mics plus bass drum, or the Glyn Johns technique with bass drum and snare spot mics.

It was more or less the norm (a 60s technique) to mic guitar cabs at least a foot or so away from the speaker cloth, which gives less proximity effect and helps the guitars (and bass guitar) naturally sit in the mix. It was things like these that gave those records their spaciousness. Mic technique at its best.

However, by the time the 70s started, vocals had already been close-miced for years.

Bass strings were usually flatwounds, which, again, would help the instrument sit in the mix well.

Cheers,

Recky

Originally Posted by Open Sky

Thanks again guys. I've got a few follow-up questions for ya'll:

Yes, as was mentioned by recky, the dead room / dry factor seems to have a lot to do with the spaciousness of the sound. Was that the way every instrument was handled, or just drums?

A couple of you mentioned that there was a limited number of drum mics. I guess I thought that the seventies drum sound used a mic on every drum. Am I wrong about that?

Bass strings: flat or round wound?

Also, should I assume that most of this stuff was done on either Neve or API? Haven't yet had the good fortune to work with either, so just taking an semi-educated guess here that it was one or the other for the most part.

Let me ask you this too--why, on all of this stuff, is the high end so smooth and the mid and low end so warm and full?

Many thanks!

Also, andychamp, very good point about the limited number of tracks they had. I kind of forgot about how much that mattered to the recording process.

[Jules]

Neuman U67 mic's
Shure SM56 mic's
Fairchild compressors / Eurei 1176 limiters
Neve Helios API EMI Trident consoles
Old tape machines (Scully?)
Tape delay
Very dead studio accoustics - favoring seperation / isolation
Plate & spring reverbs / echo chambers
Tannoy / Eurei / JBL monitors

Not my decade for studio work, but those are my guesses,

My favorite musical decade

[vernier]

I think everything has been answered already, but having been in studios 60's, 70's, and 80's, I might be able to add a bit more.

First off, rooms weren't dead. Most all studios had hard floors and both hard and soft surfaces on walls and ceilings, same as 60's and 50's really, as many were built in those decades. Vocal booths were dead though. Was when 24 track came on the scene, mid seventies, that more and more mics were being put on the drums. At this point, it was trendy to close-mic and go for more separation, which caused music to get clinical sounding. Eagles got the clinical sound, Steely Dan too ..and some others that you mentioned. But a few, like Gerry Rafferty, didn't sound clinical, and his recordings hold up today extremely well.

So, early seventies sounded different largely because of having fewer tracks. Many studios were still switching from eight-track to sixteen. Wasn't until mid seventies that it started getting ridiculous, with a mic on every drum. Of course, a few, like Jimmy Page, didn't go for that trend, and his productions hold up extremely well these days.

Bass strings was either what the player had, or if it was a large budget, rent, buy, and borrow basses and try different ones. Roundwounds were common. Fifties and sixties was flats though.

As for Neve and API, no, they didn't dominate. Crosby & Nash, Grateful Dead, and Seals and Crofts ..that is API. But by the later seventies, Trident was all the rage, and many studios got 'em. Some engineer's, when they could, might track on Neve and mix on Trident ..stuff like that. Outboard pre's were starting to happen as well, but not common. And a few years later, SSL became the rage, with built-in compression on ever track, and built-in buss limiters.

Let me ask you this too--why, on all of this stuff, is the high end so smooth and the mid and low end so warm and full?

Because of analog tape and good mics ..not from pre's or limiters of the seventies.

[Oldone]

Another overused effect was to put all of the instruments through a reverb to give things a room sound. I hear that on a lot of 70s stuff.

[max cooper]

Don't forget 10cc! Their recordings sound superb.

And I think George Martin did great stuff with America.

"Ventura Highway" is a nice one.

[Hattrick]

How about the vast amount of talent!

[Open Sky]

All this stuff helps immensely. How do you guys think they got those generally thick warm snare sounds on everything?

Yes, max cooper, Ventura Highway IS one of the great ones! How do you think they get those acoustic guitars to sound that way?

[DAWgEAR]

Definitely 10cc. Good call, Max.

Elton John's recordings up to and including Captain Fantastic are pretty much my ideal.

[vernier]

CNS&Y were the originators of the "Ventura Highway" sound ...America was not in the same league. Btw, for dead low snare, tune it down and deaden it.

[u b k]

Originally Posted by 3rd world order

-- Eagles, Life in the Fast Lane (1976)

Eric Clapton, Cocaine, (1977)

oh, it was around and in full swing on the scene, but my point was that it didn't infect the *vibe* of the music itself until the 80's. when i think coke i think cold, edgy, clinical, hyped, hollow, hard, digital... not at all the vibe of the songs you mentioned.


gregoire
del
ubk

[Open Sky]

Thanks vernier for all your insight. You seem to have a good handle on this stuff. So, how about a vocal question or three? Thanks in advance--to you all!

Do you know anything special about the way they generally recorded or mixed vocals, lead or background?

To my ears, leads are usually dry (as you mentioned--dead vocal booth). Also they seem to be generally dark in the upper frequencies. What could that be attributed to?

Background vocals seems to be so big and stacked in close harmonies. They really stand out and shout CHORUS! Was there any particular recording or mixing method to this that made it so effective?

[vernier]

Do you know anything special about the way they generally recorded or mixed vocals, lead or background?

On the albums you listed, those vocals would have been straight forward, like what they did in 50's or 60's ..i.e put up a U67, or 47, and sing. Later seventies would be, crank high's, like 10kz, then use the deeser at mix.

To my ears, leads are usually dry (as you mentioned--dead vocal booth). Also they seem to be generally dark in the upper frequencies. What could that be attributed to?

Depends on the mic ..67 and 47 would be typical choices. Each has their sound.

Background vocals seems to be so big and stacked in close harmonies. They really stand out and shout CHORUS! Was there any particular recording or mixing method to this that made it so effective?

Just multitracking, several tracks, and maybe stand a tad back from the mic as an option.

Btw, you need a book on recording (basic recording, any book) cause you might not be asking the right questions.

[Open Sky]

OK cool, that's a good point. I've been recording for 15 years but am entirely self taught. I do OK with that method, but maybe I need to go back and get some fundamental questions answered. The questions I posted in this thread are ones I ask myself from time to time, so I thought I'd ask others here at GS. You all have such different perspectives and insights, which is very helpful. Perhaps, though, it would be a good idea, as you say, to get some more basic and fundamental questions answered through a decent recording book. Thanks for the suggestion and for all the answers--I appreciate it!

[vernier]

OK cool, that's a good point. I've been recording for 15 years but am entirely self taught.

Oh ..15 years, thats different. Forget the last thing I said then.

[3rd world order]

Originally Posted by u b i k

oh, it was around and in full swing on the scene, but my pint was that it didn't infect the *vibe* of the music itself until the 80's. when i think coke i think cold, edgy, clinical, hyped, hollow, hard, digital... not at all the vibe of the songs you mentioned.

that could more be a function of midi sequencers and drum machines (and producers being cheap with session musicians) than coke... ack, now i sound like a luddite.

in a way the same thing has happened AGAIN with the DAW stuff... now everyone can make records... shit, now i sound like an elitist.

i'm gonna go back to shutting up....

[vernier]

I was reallly suprised to see that in the early 70's how little gear was still being used, a lot of studios still had custom consoles, maybe a couple of pultecs, a plate, la-2a (maybe a little later an 1176) tape delay, 2" 16 track.

Yep, that gear, or lack of it, was typical early 70's. And a few years earlier, you had all-tube-gear, thus, the awesome sound of Buffalo Springfield, "Bluebird", "Rock And Roll Woman", Doors, CCR, and Byrds. Vocals sounded very rich then.

[Open Sky]

Originally Posted by studio1117

...basics of signal level, miking techniques and good overall studio discipline.

Yes, so true. I forget this and can become lazy at times as well. Once, when recording my younger, hipper brother, I said something to the effect of "we'll just throw a bunch of mics up and fix the rest in the mix." Now, while that may be appropriate at times, like anything else, it really wasn't for this, and it was just me being lazy. He told me "perfect, that's what everyone I record with does!" That hit me in a way I haven't forgotten since. I just don't want to work that way. It was like a mirror being put up in front of me--and I didn't dig what I saw!

Also, yes, the Rhodes--and Wurly--are such great sounding instruments. And they get A LOT of the credit for this seventies sound. Sometimes I just can't stop myself from shoving one onto every track! Thankfully, they are currently fairly hip, so I can get away with it.