Is it really THAT easy to just get money back from Paypal w/ a dispute?

centurymantra · 15th June 2006

I recently was informed by Paypal of a buyer disputing a credit card purchase through Paypal on what was a relatively small item...a $95 computer part. This comes in 2 months after the item was recieved. Although I would have certainly worked with the seller if he contacted me with any problems, there was no warranty stated in the auction. The buyer never contacted me after the auction and even left positive feedback app. a month after the item was received, which would certainly imply they were content and there was no problem. I responded to the Paypal 'Dispute Resolution Center' with a detailed e-mail and faxed all pertinent info (copy of original auction, verification of reciept, evidence of positive feedback) to Paypal and was just informed that the money is taken out of my account and it appears I am basically SOL. Oh yeah, Paypal was kind enough to charge me $10 for this 'service'. I hear more about buyers having problems with Paypal and worrying about the security of purchases. If I'm not able to maintain ahold of my funds with fairly decent substantiation it makes me very leery about using Paypal to sell larger items. Luckily this was a smaller item, but if this is how it goes, this would seem to imply that an individual could simply dispute items at will, provide little substantiation, get their money back and keep the merchandise. I'm not a retailer, don't deal directly with credit card companies and, therefore, have pretty much no clout or recourse. Anyone got some insights or comments on this? Is it really this easy to just get your money back and keep the stuff? Tell me I'm wrong!

tvanveen · 15th June 2006

You sent them proof of delivery and they still dinged you? Did they have a verified address?

I once had someone dispute a $1000 purchase. I showed the item was delivered and kept my money.

GL Respect Due · 16th June 2006

F-ck PayPal. Yet another example of they're crooky ass tactics. I currently have $1,000 locked up in my old PayPal account. They closed my account because it was subjected to a random credit report. Apparently, based on they're review of my credit report, they optioned to close my account. Whats even better is that in they're agreement, when an account is closed, they legally can hold your money up to 180 days (which I was told is the case 99% of the time). I fought with (3) upper-level supervisors about it and they baiscally said they agree it's BS, but it's beyond they're control. The 180 days deal is set "by the consumer" as credit card companies can do charge backs up to 180 days. So to cover they're asses they freeze you up until then, to insure no one complains. Now I get to wait till August to get my $1,000. I told the cats at PayPal you are virtually strong-armin' me.

Btw. PayPal is setup to protect buyers, not sellers.

Led · 16th June 2006

I haven't had a personal problem with them, but a good friend sold an item and the postal service screwed up and sent it by the wrong mail service - it should have been express but took a lot longer. The buyer complained to Paypal saying it wasn't delivered. They took all the money in my buddy's account which was about 2/3 the selling price. Then they put a lock on his account saying he had to pay the rest and wouldn't let him use it for anything. Then a few weeks late, the iem turned up. The buyer in this case apologised and returned the money but it only takes one inexperienced buyer to panic and report it to paypal and bang, you're f&cked. I used to wonder why people would say 'no paypal'in auction terms. Now I know why.

swankdoc · 16th June 2006

wow. These stories suck.

centurymantra · 16th June 2006

Yeah...I have proof of delivery and there isn't even a question of that. They even left feedback several weeks after the end of the auction which says, to quote, "Fast Shipping!!!! Smooth Transaction!!"

I actually don't even know what the problem is and why they disputed it. I never received this information. I just know there was a dispute issued. It seems they'd be obligated to return the merchandise if it's not working...and I actually don't even know if this is the case.

Based on this, I could arbitrarily decide to 'dispute' a purchase of, say, a nice Neumann mic and this would be sufficient to get my money back...and keep the mic.

It REALLY doesn't seem like one should be able to do this...maybe I'm missing something. If that's the case, I think sellers have got WAY more to worry about than buyers, provided you use a credit card.

It wasn't a lot of money and I could just say #$&# it and move on. I might have to make some noise though...at the very least to find out why exactly I'm not getting my money.

Ziggy!! · 16th June 2006

Call them... Tell them you have proof of shipping and delivery and are willing to forward it to them via email or fax.

Sounds like it might be a hijacked account with someone on the other end trying to get some money out of it...

nukmusic · 16th June 2006

Paypal 101...........never leave funds in your account.
Paypal 102...........NEVER leave funds in your account.
Paypal 103...........open a separate bank account for paypal(or similar) transactions.

chadd · 16th June 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ziggy!!

Sounds like it might be a hijacked account with someone on the other end trying to get some money out of it...

Have you tried contacting the buyer directly or through eBay? That's the first thing I'd try before trying to wrestle with PayPal or eBay.

Matt Hepworth · 16th June 2006

Well, to offset the horror stories - several hundred flawless PayPal transactions (many over $1,000.00) right here (knock on wood) as a seller.

As a buyer, I once or twice had a situation where they (PayPal) would not refund me even when the items were not delivered to me! Fortunately they were very small transactions (under $50 each).

Poopants · 16th June 2006

Awhile ago I ordered a Mackie Control Universal on ebay, payed more than normal because I needed it in a hurry, and wound up with an earlier model than was advertised which wasn't compatible with my DAW. So I tried to get the seller to set up a return but he wouldn't respond. So I opened a case with Paypal because I was eligible for buyer protection up to $1000 (guaranteed! Yay!). Months later, after sending in photos and letters from a 3rd party verifying my claim, they told me I won the dispute, and that I had to send the unit back to the seller in order to get the refund. They credited me $200, and told me that THE SELLER WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR GIVING SENDING ME THE REST OF THE MONEY! Well the seller wouldn't even respond to me, thats why I opened a paypal dispute in the first place! Everywhere I looked in the agreements it said that paypal guarantees you a refund of up to $1000 as long as both parties are verified, which we were. Now I'm out around $450 with no Control Universal.

elambo · 16th June 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by centurymantra

It wasn't a lot of money and I could just say #$&# it and move on. I might have to make some noise though...at the very least to find out why exactly I'm not getting my money.

It doesn't seem like you're making any noise at all. Call them. Don't expect them to handle it without your involvement, and NO, email isn't going to cut it.

Forget the relatively small amount - that's only one element. If the jackass on the other end of the sale gets away with it, what's to stop him from doing it again. And besides that, if you end up getting screwed the mere thought of that is going to eat away at your brain. I'd be pissed! I'd call and demand better treatment.

elambo · 16th June 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poopants

Everywhere I looked in the agreements it said that paypal guarantees you a refund of up to $1000 as long as both parties are verified, which we were. Now I'm out around $450 with no Control Universal.

Does it state HOW the money would be refunded anywhere in the contract? I've read that contract and can't remember. In any case, it doesn't seem proper.

celticrogues · 16th June 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by nukmusic

Paypal 101...........never leave funds in your account.
Paypal 102...........NEVER leave funds in your account.
Paypal 103...........open a separate bank account for paypal(or similar) transactions.

thumbsup thumbsup thumbsup
never leave money in your paypal account
-MIke

Poopants · 16th June 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by elambo

Does it state HOW the money would be refunded anywhere in the contract? I've read that contract and can't remember. In any case, it doesn't seem proper.

well if it did, they hid it well

tubedude · 16th June 2006

Ha, and people give me the ole evil eye every time I say I dont do paypal. Paypal sucks.

SOmeone mentioned the deal with the Neumann mic... well... here ya go....

I put up a Sennheiser E609 for sale. Guy bought it. Paypal. Sent him the mic. He got it. "thanks a lot" Two months, or a little more goes by, and the guy goes for a crap shoot. Hell, he was thinking 50/50 chance, why not? He says he never got the mic. I didnt have anything at that point (maybe never did) that said he ever recieved the mic except for emails that is. They refunded his money, and he kept the mic, and I was screwed. Just that easy. Why you guys think paypal is sooooo great is beyond me. **** that.

liquidorange · 16th June 2006

i thought a buyer had only 30 days to make a complaint. i bought an item that took 3 months to arrive. at least he sent it.

GL Respect Due · 16th June 2006

You have (30) days to file a complaint through PayPal. If the complaint is not resolved by PayPal within those 30 days, and the buyer paid with they're credit card, the charge back policy kicks in, allowing them (180) additional days to file.

FYI. On a charge back they can dispute the claim up to (3) times! Unlike a normal PayPal initiated complaint where once the case closes, it stays closed, they can keep refiling in an attempt to get they're money back.

nathanvacha · 16th June 2006

S#*t!!! I still like buying from paypal auctions, but that's 'cause I know I'm not going to fuuck someone over.

15th June 2006	#1
centurymantra Lives for gear Joined: Oct 2005 Location: Michigan Posts: 665 Thread Starter	Is it really THAT easy to just get money back from Paypal w/ a dispute? I recently was informed by Paypal of a buyer disputing a credit card purchase through Paypal on what was a relatively small item...a $95 computer part. This comes in 2 months after the item was recieved. Although I would have certainly worked with the seller if he contacted me with any problems, there was no warranty stated in the auction. The buyer never contacted me after the auction and even left positive feedback app. a month after the item was received, which would certainly imply they were content and there was no problem. I responded to the Paypal 'Dispute Resolution Center' with a detailed e-mail and faxed all pertinent info (copy of original auction, verification of reciept, evidence of positive feedback) to Paypal and was just informed that the money is taken out of my account and it appears I am basically SOL. Oh yeah, Paypal was kind enough to charge me $10 for this 'service'. I hear more about buyers having problems with Paypal and worrying about the security of purchases. If I'm not able to maintain ahold of my funds with fairly decent substantiation it makes me very leery about using Paypal to sell larger items. Luckily this was a smaller item, but if this is how it goes, this would seem to imply that an individual could simply dispute items at will, provide little substantiation, get their money back and keep the merchandise. I'm not a retailer, don't deal directly with credit card companies and, therefore, have pretty much no clout or recourse. Anyone got some insights or comments on this? Is it really this easy to just get your money back and keep the stuff? Tell me I'm wrong!

16th June 2006	#8
nukmusic Lives for gear Joined: Jun 2004 Location: Dallas, TX / New Orleans, LA Posts: 4,667	Paypal 101...........never leave funds in your account. Paypal 102...........NEVER leave funds in your account. Paypal 103...........open a separate bank account for paypal(or similar) transactions. __________________ . Docta'J aka Big NUK Practice Makes Progress www.twitter.com/nukmusic

16th June 2006	#16
tubedude Lives for gear Joined: Nov 2002 Location: Ky. Posts: 637	Ha, and people give me the ole evil eye every time I say I dont do paypal. Paypal sucks. SOmeone mentioned the deal with the Neumann mic... well... here ya go.... I put up a Sennheiser E609 for sale. Guy bought it. Paypal. Sent him the mic. He got it. "thanks a lot" Two months, or a little more goes by, and the guy goes for a crap shoot. Hell, he was thinking 50/50 chance, why not? He says he never got the mic. I didnt have anything at that point (maybe never did) that said he ever recieved the mic except for emails that is. They refunded his money, and he kept the mic, and I was screwed. Just that easy. Why you guys think paypal is sooooo great is beyond me. **** that. __________________ You CAN polish a turd... if you freeze it first.

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15th June 2006	#2
tvanveen Gear addict Joined: Aug 2005 Location: DC Posts: 312	You sent them proof of delivery and they still dinged you? Did they have a verified address? I once had someone dispute a $1000 purchase. I showed the item was delivered and kept my money.

16th June 2006	#3
GL Respect Due Lives for gear Joined: Jul 2005 Location: Wally World, AR Posts: 523	F-ck PayPal. Yet another example of they're crooky ass tactics. I currently have $1,000 locked up in my old PayPal account. They closed my account because it was subjected to a random credit report. Apparently, based on they're review of my credit report, they optioned to close my account. Whats even better is that in they're agreement, when an account is closed, they legally can hold your money up to 180 days (which I was told is the case 99% of the time). I fought with (3) upper-level supervisors about it and they baiscally said they agree it's BS, but it's beyond they're control. The 180 days deal is set "by the consumer" as credit card companies can do charge backs up to 180 days. So to cover they're asses they freeze you up until then, to insure no one complains. Now I get to wait till August to get my $1,000. I told the cats at PayPal you are virtually strong-armin' me. Btw. PayPal is setup to protect buyers, not sellers.

16th June 2006	#4
Led Lives for gear Joined: Apr 2006 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 2,728	I haven't had a personal problem with them, but a good friend sold an item and the postal service screwed up and sent it by the wrong mail service - it should have been express but took a lot longer. The buyer complained to Paypal saying it wasn't delivered. They took all the money in my buddy's account which was about 2/3 the selling price. Then they put a lock on his account saying he had to pay the rest and wouldn't let him use it for anything. Then a few weeks late, the iem turned up. The buyer in this case apologised and returned the money but it only takes one inexperienced buyer to panic and report it to paypal and bang, you're f&cked. I used to wonder why people would say 'no paypal'in auction terms. Now I know why.

16th June 2006	#5
swankdoc Lives for gear Joined: Jun 2005 Posts: 2,135	wow. These stories suck.

16th June 2006	#7
Ziggy!! Lives for gear Joined: Mar 2005 Posts: 1,319	Call them... Tell them you have proof of shipping and delivery and are willing to forward it to them via email or fax. Sounds like it might be a hijacked account with someone on the other end trying to get some money out of it...

16th June 2006	#10
Matt Hepworth Church of UAD Joined: May 2003 Location: USA Posts: 1,982 1 Review written	Well, to offset the horror stories - several hundred flawless PayPal transactions (many over $1,000.00) right here (knock on wood) as a seller. As a buyer, I once or twice had a situation where they (PayPal) would not refund me even when the items were not delivered to me! Fortunately they were very small transactions (under $50 each).

16th June 2006	#11
Poopants Lives for gear Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 577	Awhile ago I ordered a Mackie Control Universal on ebay, payed more than normal because I needed it in a hurry, and wound up with an earlier model than was advertised which wasn't compatible with my DAW. So I tried to get the seller to set up a return but he wouldn't respond. So I opened a case with Paypal because I was eligible for buyer protection up to $1000 (guaranteed! Yay!). Months later, after sending in photos and letters from a 3rd party verifying my claim, they told me I won the dispute, and that I had to send the unit back to the seller in order to get the refund. They credited me $200, and told me that THE SELLER WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR GIVING SENDING ME THE REST OF THE MONEY! Well the seller wouldn't even respond to me, thats why I opened a paypal dispute in the first place! Everywhere I looked in the agreements it said that paypal guarantees you a refund of up to $1000 as long as both parties are verified, which we were. Now I'm out around $450 with no Control Universal.

16th June 2006	#17
liquidorange Gear addict Joined: Jul 2003 Location: tri state Posts: 395	i thought a buyer had only 30 days to make a complaint. i bought an item that took 3 months to arrive. at least he sent it.

16th June 2006	#19
nathanvacha Lives for gear Joined: Dec 2005 Location: Orlando Posts: 1,231	S#*t!!! I still like buying from paypal auctions, but that's 'cause I know I'm not going to fuuck someone over.