funk guitar recording tips?

[fingerz]

Howdy All,

I've got a project that I will be playing funk guitar on.
The recording process entails me recording direct, with amp plugins and fx added later, and sometimes the direct guitar will be untreated. - I know, this isn't a purist project, but...

I'd love to have some pre and compressor suggestions for such a project. I will be using all types of guitars.

I've currently got an LA-610 and an RNC, but I'd love to get some other chain suggestions for getting a spanky, pristine, and (sometimes) compressed kind of sound.

Budget: 1k-2k for new gear.

Also, I'm studying up on funk guitar playing. Anyone know any great funk players, records or groups that might be a little of the beaten path? I've got a lot of the typical funk stuff, but I'd be appreciative of any suggestions for lesser known albums.

Thanks in advance!

KZ

[henryrobinett]

I've had great success using a Milennia TD-1 as a DI and a Peavy VC/L-2 opto compressor. Strat.

[Sproto]

Check out almost anything from Tower of Power. Love that band

[doorknocker]

Originally Posted by fingerz

HAlso, I'm studying up on funk guitar playing. Anyone know any great funk players, records or groups that might be a little of the beaten path?KZ

Leo Nocentelli from the Meters. He's surely known in funk circles but I get the impression that he's still pretty unknown to the guitar world at large.
Best funk player I ever had the pleasure of hearing live (Meters @Tipitinas in 1990)

Check out 'People Say', that's the most amazing rhythm part ever, insane.

[theblue1]

I was just gonna say the Meters. I saw them back in the late 80s or early 90s and they were the funkiest thing I've ever seen.

I like some of the African funk playing. So much is in the interplay between the guitar and the drums and percussion, obviously. A particularly infectious -- if gritty and lo fi -- afro funk is the politico punk funk of Fela Kuti... What it lacks in gloss it makes up for in pure, rolling funkiness. Suny Ade is good for a side or two of listening -- but his music is as glossy and show biz in its way as Fela was funky and real. But it's a different kind of funky, to be sure.

I'm spinning my wheels here... Bar-Kays. You knew that. Ohio Players. P-Funk. Sly. JB.

Ah... Curtis Mayfield... master of the wah... I think he got that sound brushing his fingertips across the strings... Very classy, very cool funk. Superfly and all that. STill, not exactly a secret.

Sly. Bloodstone. Iseleys. Kool. Ah -- love these guys: War. But I don't really remember the guitar that well -- but maybe that's a good sign. Saw 'em live way back and they were really funky. I didn't dig them when the show started (that whole Spill the Wine/Burdon thing, saw them then, too, and realized they were great players but it wasn't my thing)... but man, by the time their set ended they had a lifelong fan. Slippin' into Darkeness still gives me goosebumps. Uh... anyway, guitar, guitar...

[fingerz]

Wow...
I can't believe how many artists I didn't know about or had forgotten about. There's a thin/almost invisible line between soul and funk.

Fela Kuti: rhythmically, man that stuff is tough to replicate, but totally worth it when you nail it. I think I spent 20 minutes trying to learn the first four bars of one of his songs. I still need to dive deeper on that.

The Bar-Kays: OK. I must be an idiot. I had never heard of them. Just checked it out on iTUnes. SWEET! Did Prince rip these guys off?

Isleys: forgot about them. So stupid!

Meters: hadn't heard of them either! Checked them on iTunes, too. Boy... that drum sound is hot. GUitar playing is cool, too.

The others mentioned, I'm on already.

Still open to gear suggestions if anyone cares to contribute.

THanks for the tip on the Peavy and the Millennia TD-1. I'm checking those right now...

[mtstudios@charter]

Strat compressed DI cut mids, like Prince "Kiss". Another possible Strat fender twin pickups in out of phase position.


www.bluethumbproductions.com
'

[No4PCs]

Try listen any Chic and JB album . e

[max cooper]

Yeah, Nile Rogers Chic stuff, and his playing on the Diana Ross album "Diana".

Wendy Melvoin's guitar playing on Prince's "Kiss"

Kool and the Gang "Wild and Funky"

Thomas McClary of The Commodores; tracks like "Brick House" and "Machine Gun", the latter of which is the loop used in "Hey Ladies".

Alphonso Kellum who played on a bunch of early James Brown sides.

Also, Catfish Collins; first with James Brown, later Parliament. A real mofo.

Sugarfoot from the Ohio Players is great.

[Endure]

Here’s a quick recording tip on recording funk guitar. Mic the electric guitar* at the 12th fret to get the sound of the attack of the strings. Blended with the amp signal and DI it really brings out the dynamics of the playing.

*IMHO I find a Strat with a maple neck really works best with funk material. The maple neck/Strat sound really gives that twangy smack that I personally associate with funk.

I hope this helps.

[Vari-Mu]

For compression for the Chic disco/ funk DI thing try an 1176, slow attack.

The guitars on Felas' stuff are a very similar harmonic recipe to the JBs....Dominant 7th and Dominant 7th sus 4 chords figure heavily although the rhythmic feel is very different. Tony Allen is the equal of any drummer on the planet...and he's the only guy with that particular groove....


Cheers

Vari-Mu

[Surfkat]

I worked with a great session player whose "secret weapon" for funk giutar was a Boss compressor stomp box, a blue one, can't recall the model#. This guy is an amazing rhythm player and that Boss pedal made the track have very little dynamics but it sure was funky and sat nicely with the drums & bass.

But like I said this guy is a great player, that always helps. Or maybe that's all that matters.

[GregoryC]

Originally Posted by Surfkat

I worked with a great session player whose "secret weapon" for funk giutar was a Boss compressor stomp box, a blue one, can't recall the model#. This guy is an amazing rhythm player and that Boss pedal made the track have very little dynamics but it sure was funky and sat nicely with the drums & bass.

But like I said this guy is a great player, that always helps. Or maybe that's all that matters.

It's a BIG part of the sound; the player...I Art Directed a Stevie Wonder video back in the day and had to have a baby grand moved about 100 yards up and down stairs etc.
That thing was SO out of tune. The play back track rolled in the speakers, he played to it and it was beautifully in tune. He played around it. Unbelievable!!!
I've had great success with a Countryman DI and, believe it or not, an Art tube mic pre!
Check out the Radial stuff also...

[GregoryC]

[QUOTE=fingerz]Howdy All,

I've got a project that I will be playing funk guitar on.
The recording process entails me recording direct, with amp plugins and fx added later, and sometimes the direct guitar will be untreated. - I know, this isn't a purist project, but...

I'd love to have some pre and compressor suggestions for such a project. I will be using all types of guitars.

I've currently got an LA-610 and an RNC, but I'd love to get some other chain suggestions for getting a spanky, pristine, and (sometimes) compressed kind of sound.

Budget: 1k-2k for new gear.

Also, I'm studying up on funk guitar playing. Anyone know any great funk players, records or groups that might be a little of the beaten path? I've got a lot of the typical funk stuff, but I'd be appreciative of any suggestions for lesser known albums.

Thanks in advance!

KZ[/QUOTE

oh yeah, mic the electric guitar itself like an acoustic if your using headphones or can be isolated. Mix this in with the DI. It'll give you a cool top...

[SoulSpace]

EWF,
P-Funk,
James Brown,
Cameo,
Isley Brothers.

Study the sound of the guitar on their stuff...it's all treble, no bass, it's all in the pocket with the bass and drums, ... TOW (Tower of Power)..? I wouldn't call them that funky.

Pocket baby. Be in the pocket.

[SoulSpace]

Originally Posted by theblue1

I was just gonna say the Meters. I saw them back in the late 80s or early 90s and they were the funkiest thing I've ever seen.

I like some of the African funk playing. So much is in the interplay between the guitar and the drums and percussion, obviously. A particularly infectious -- if gritty and lo fi -- afro funk is the politico punk funk of Fela Kuti... What it lacks in gloss it makes up for in pure, rolling funkiness. Suny Ade is good for a side or two of listening -- but his music is as glossy and show biz in its way as Fela was funky and real. But it's a different kind of funky, to be sure.

I'm spinning my wheels here... Bar-Kays. You knew that. Ohio Players. P-Funk. Sly. JB.

Ah... Curtis Mayfield... master of the wah... I think he got that sound brushing his fingertips across the strings... Very classy, very cool funk. Superfly and all that. STill, not exactly a secret.

Sly. Bloodstone. Iseleys. Kool. Ah -- love these guys: War. But I don't really remember the guitar that well -- but maybe that's a good sign. Saw 'em live way back and they were really funky. I didn't dig them when the show started (that whole Spill the Wine/Burdon thing, saw them then, too, and realized they were great players but it wasn't my thing)... but man, by the time their set ended they had a lifelong fan. Slippin' into Darkeness still gives me goosebumps. Uh... anyway, guitar, guitar...

Slippin' into Darkness... I don't know how "funky" that is, but that is a classic. Thanks.

[Mind-Over-Midi]

There are a lot of great suggestions here, some very cool players that are new to me, cool! Here's my essential top ten funk guitar listening list (in no particular oder), it is a great place to start:

Earth Wind & Fire (Johnny Graham and Al McKay are the absolute shit!)
Rufus and Chaka khan
Ohio Players
Sly & Family Stone
Larry Graham and the Graham Central Station
LTD with Jeffrey Osborne
Prince
Parliament-Funkadelic
James Brown
Isley Brothers

Man it would be way beyond cool if George Massenburg would happen to see this thread and pop in to tell us just how he went about recording those EWF guitars and may be contrast that with his current recording techniques!

[goldphinga]

wah wah watson, george benson, john schofield, funky and jazzy

got a great direct guitar sound through avalon u5 into amek cib

[henryrobinett]

Buzzy Feiten. Check out this little chank from 1972. Jungle Walk - http://www.classic45s.com/product_in...ducts_id=17602

[7161]

no votes for johnny guitar watson?

tsk!

[fingerz]

Oh man...
I've spent the last hour on iTunes checking out a TON of funky sh1t. Thanks for all the suggestions.

Mic at the 12th fret: I read about that somewhere. Did Niles do that on some of his stuff? I'll defintiely have to give that a try. I recall that he's got a maple neck strat that he call something like "The Hitmaker" - or something close to that.

Blue Boss Pedal: Yeah, I've tried that pedal out a long time ago. WIll have to check it out again. I've got the MXR compressor pedal, but it's got less tweakability than the Boss.

Thanks for the other suggestions on the signal chains.

Lastly: I heard an NPR story about this funk band from the late 60s-early 70s from New Orleans. They reformed for a gig or two a bit before the hurricane. I think they only did one album - but what they played of it on the radio was sweet! Down-n-dirty. YOu could almost smell it through the speakers. This ring a bell for anyone?

[James Lehmann]

A Funk listening list:

JB's
Sly
Maceo
George Clinton/Parliament Funkadelic
Bootsy
The Counts
War
Kool & The Gang
BT Express
Johnny 'Guitar' Watson
The Meters
Curtis Mayfield
Bobby Byrd
Average White Band
Stevie Wonder (no guitars though)
The O'Jays
Temptations
Rare Earth
James Brown
Fred Wesley & Horny Horns
Defunkt
Fela Kuti
Brecker Bros
Chic/Sister Sledge

Two points to note:

1) Many of the same players were active on many projects particularly within the James Brown/P-Funk axis
2) Of the groups listed above, many were prone to churning out slushy, souly ballads as was the fashion of the age, but that shouldn't deter you from seeking out the choice funk cuts many had to offer

[fross]

I've been listening to funk since I was a kid. The above list should get you there. He even covered Maceo and Bobby Byrd, good job.

[mbrebes]

An interview with Nile Rogers from EQ Aug 2000.
http://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=68684

[theblue1]

There is no funkier chord (MHO) than a minor 6 barre... with appropriate rhythmic fatbackin'...

IOW... (am6)

|-|-|-|-|O|-|-      (1)
|-|-|-|-|-|-|O
|-|-|-|-|O|-|-
|-|-|-|-|O|-|-
|-|-|-|-|-|-|O
|-|-|-|-|O|-|-       (6)

PS... I've heard it called a "double-flat 7," too...

[max cooper]

One thing I always get a kick out of w/regard to funk guitar is how sometimes the rhythm guitar will be as sharp as a razor, and waay funky, and then the guitar solo will be some toto-metal deal. This happens in EWF, Ohio Players, and especially the guy in James Brown's touring band

[Kappi]

I did some work with the guy who played on Isaac Hayes Shaft.(Mikel Toles III.,The whawha stuff).
He told me how they recorded back in those days.
They used amps with open cabs, placed one mic at the front, one at the back and then put a blanket over the whole thing, so with the two faders and the phase switch you could dial in any kind of tone to match the track.(Eq was very expensive those days)
Nile Rodgers uses a Fender Bassman and a Strats neckPU, you can see it on the `Chic Live at Montreaux DVD`.

[Benjy King]

Al McKay. Earth Wind and Fire. ES335.

[paultools]

There are certain guys that have "the stroke".

Al McKay has it.. although he frequently played a Tele contrary to the post above. Johnny Graham played the 335.

Nile Rodgers, Prince, Freddie Stone (check out Woodstock), Stephen Shockley (Lakeside and other SOLAR acts),

But the fitting tribute at this time is to the cats who played with James Brown. My favorite examples would be "Sex Machine", "Make It Funky" and "Can't Stand It (When You Touch Me)". AMAZING!

[Benjy King]

Al McKay quote:"I played all the guitar parts on ninety percent of the EWF records, except for that incredible solo on "That's the Way of the World," which was Johnny Graham's."

Check out this link. Pretty f***kin' cool!!!
http://robertdecker.com/mckay/main/frameset.htm