In Your Opinion, What About This Song *Isn't* Beautiful ?
Please be as technically specific as possible about the sonics, mix, production and mastering. I'm so captivated by the dynamics and the presentation of the jazzy chords/harmonies that I find myself unable to objectively critique it. Your assistance in this regard is very welcome.
I'm not a beach boys expert, I didn't know this song, but the mix sounds very modern to me. I guess its from later in their career? It didn't appeal to me as much as their great songs like god only knows, wouldn't it be nice, hang on to your ego etc..
I'm not a beach boys expert, I didn't know this song, but the mix sounds very modern to me. I guess its from later in their career? It didn't appeal to me as much as their great songs like god only knows, wouldn't it be nice, hang on to your ego etc..
I think it's from their brand new album so you'd be right when you say it's from later in their career. It just got released I think.
Regards,
Frank
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My equipment: A Commodore 64, 2 1541 Disk Drives, Dr T's Music Studio and a Casiotone CT-460.
Never listen to opinions regarding gear. For every 50 nobodies on Gearslutz that say a piece of gear doesn't sound good enough to cut it, I know at least one somebody who is cutting it in NYC with that piece of gear.
I think it's greatly a matter of taste, as you yourself have expressed.
One thing that makes me less enthusiastic about this song (although it's masterly done) is that it simply bases itself on functional harmony. I, for one, have noticed that very few of the bands that I enjoy use functional harmony, but rather base their music on modality, block harmony or mediants. That's also a difference that I generally see between popular music made today and popular music from artists being on their top 20-30 years ago. There is little use of (bi-)dominants today, and if they're there, they are rather used as an effect in itself to create an atmosphere linked to that specific kind of harmonic movement.
A different way to put it, is that in music with complex harmony, it is better with absence of tonal centers, than constantly moving tonal centers. That's how I feel, at least, and it is something that I've been struggling with. It also seems comparable with the problems you have been talking about having; that you would wish you could unlearn theory, because for me at least, musical theory has made me more or less dependent on tonal centers.
Talking about production and sonical details, the reverb on the vocals is also something that gives it a kind of corny feel (in my opinion). The guitar accentuated on the 4's as well. I believe it's mostly because those are elements reminiscent of an aesthetic that I don't really care for, and that generally is viewed as "outdated" by today's songwriters (like myself).
And as I stated earlier: It's masterly done, and there's a reason why their sound has made them so popular. At least I gave you what you asked for - criticism!
What do you mean by sonic quality? It's affected by the others. The overall impression?
Also, choices done in mixing are just as much important parts of production. I guess by mixing, you mean how well they have achieved the expression they're aiming for.
Understanding the criteria that way, I would say:
1) A
2) A (C+)
3) A (C+)
4) A
They have achieved what they're aiming for, but subjectively judging the production and choices in the mix ( some of them mentioned earlier), there are things that I don't care much for. I don't believe that mastering would be a problem at this level, and I can't put my finger on anything. Though, in the end, they are a great band for their genre, and the song clearly appeals to those who like this music (you, for example), so considering that, I would say a total score of A.
TBH, I don't really see how music could be objectively rated in this manner. Should one rate how good punk rock is compared to jazz? They're aiming for two completely different things. Different aesthetics. The only thing that can be objectively rated, is how well the artist achieves to realize his/her ideas, and if those ideas are good or not, considering what kind of genre it is, if any.
This new album doesn't quite do it for me though. I love pretty much everything they've done up to the '80s and even some of the stuff since.
But this new record sounds pretty strange in my opinion.
Sonically, the 'gloss' and pitch correction used on the vocals sound really out of place for the boys. The engineering seems 'by the book', which doesn't work for a group that have been great innovators in much of their previous work. The production seems to be very modern AOR, which I suspect has something to do with Joe Thomas' involvement, since it has something of his sonic staple on the thing.
It does sound 'outdated', but not in a good way.
I guess you could say it sounds too 'professional' and 'commercial', as opposed to 'artistic'. At their best, the Beach Boys always had a way of melding the two elements into one. Brian Wilson has this thing where he can make a complex arrangement sound really simple. I do hear some elements of that in this new album as well.
I think the songs are there for the most part, but the production kind of ruins it for me.
I think the group still has a great album in them though -- they're totally capable of it.
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"Jack, you don't have a more substantial tambourine out there, do you?"
The chord progression fluctuates between very nice and a complete mess. Reminds me of Nik Kershaw. Like others have said, production is top notch but it seems the songwriting is too "smart" for its own good.
Isn't it actually against the forum rules to criticize a recording?
Anyway, for me the biggest problem is that everything sounds clear, crisp, clean and direct. And yet the song has a '60s style arrangement that would have worked better with more of a classic Spector/Wilson/Wrecking Crew -esque blend. People playing live together in a room with some real vibe and atmosphere. As it is, the '80s style production combined with the '60s style arrangement and writing makes it sound like bad canned production music or something. An '80s Karaoke version of the Beach Boys.
I used to LOOOOVE the Beach Boys as a kid. And while I can totally respect the musical talent as an adult, I can't help but feel that their sound/message/image just comes off as corny and cheesy.
This song has a nice melody, but the production is so cheesy and squeaky clean that it just doesn't have much soul to me.
For some reason, the way that they enunciate EVERY word so well makes me cringe. It's so 'safe' or something. Needs more attitude. They sound like a barbershop quartet/church choir.
Isn't it actually against the forum rules to criticize a recording?
Anyway, for me the biggest problem is that everything sounds clear, crisp, clean and direct. And yet the song has a '60s style arrangement that would have worked better with more of a classic Spector/Wilson/Wrecking Crew -esque blend. People playing live together in a room with some real vibe and atmosphere. As it is, the '80s style production combined with the '60s style arrangement and writing makes it sound like bad canned production music or something. An '80s Karaoke version of the Beach Boys.
Too true. It sounds like a bunch of old guys who can't catch up with the times.
I agree with the many posts about the production sounding too clean, distinct, direct. To me it sounds like a bunch of plain sounding instruments recorded straightforwardly and not blended together with any purpose or for any aesthetic. Also, the melodies and chord progressions meander the whole time and (again, to me) don't really ever create anything with any impact, resonance, or anything. I've heard it more than once - though I wasn't able to get through the entire song either time - and can't recall a lick of it. That it isn't instantly memorable wouldn't necessarily be a criticism if I had any desire to ever hear this song again. I don't understand the point of this track, it doesn't do anything for me. I normally wouldn't say anything when I have nothing good to say, but you made this thread specifically looking for negative opinions of this song for some reason, so there you go. Of course, I wouldn't begrudge anyone for liking it though, I'm sure for some people it pushes the right buttons.
Someone on another music forum I frequent called this "lullabies for alzheimers patients"
the melodies and chord progressions meander the whole time and (again, to me) don't really ever create anything with any impact, resonance, or anything. I've heard it more than once - though I wasn't able to get through the entire song either time - and can't recall a lick of it.
OTOH, nearly ever modern song you've ever suggested on this forum bores me to the extreme because of the extremely uniform cohesiveness and predictability.
I love this new Beach Boys tune precisely because of the odd harmonic progression, and the melody has been in my head for 48 hours non stop.
It's a very deep song compared to the Billboard corridor of conformity.
I just don't think you are fully (and effortlessly) comprehending (every single melodic and harmonic detail of) the song, so your final comment on issues of mental deficiency are karming right back atcha.
I used to LOOOOVE the Beach Boys as a kid. And while I can totally respect the musical talent as an adult, I can't help but feel that their sound/message/image just comes off as corny and cheesy.
This song has a nice melody, but the production is so cheesy and squeaky clean that it just doesn't have much soul to me.
For some reason, the way that they enunciate EVERY word so well makes me cringe. It's so 'safe' or something. Needs more attitude. They sound like a barbershop quartet/church choir.
But what if you compare it to *other* 70 year olds churning out pop songs 45 years after they had their initial megahit run ?
Should we really be comparing grandpas aesthetic head to head with the modernista crowd ? Doesn't seem appropriate.
Isn't it actually against the forum rules to criticize a recording?
Anyway, for me the biggest problem is that everything sounds clear, crisp, clean and direct. And yet the song has a '60s style arrangement that would have worked better with more of a classic Spector/Wilson/Wrecking Crew -esque blend. People playing live together in a room with some real vibe and atmosphere. As it is, the '80s style production combined with the '60s style arrangement and writing makes it sound like bad canned production music or something. An '80s Karaoke version of the Beach Boys.
The clear, crisp, clean and direct aspect is what I'd like studio experts to elaborate on.
Should they have used more analog simulation plugins ? Like Bad Buss Mojo ?
How depressing would it be to be Brian Wilson reading this thread. To have written such amazing music in the past, gone through some struggles in life, and then have your new work so heavily criticised because you set such a high standard for yourself before. You can't expect these old guys to stay with the times, but they've tried to present their own (old) style of music in a way that sounds new. I reckon it can be enjoyed for what it is.
The chord progression fluctuates between very nice and a complete mess. Reminds me of Nik Kershaw. Like others have said, production is top notch but it seems the songwriting is too "smart" for its own good.
Or maybe the corporate poptart modernistas have dumbed down the pop paradigm so much that it appears to be harmonically messy in comparison.
***Your production comment is something I'd like studio experts to elaborate on.***
You'd have to take all aspects of Brian's life, struggles and age into account while simultaneously dismissing the current pop paradigm as any meaningful point of reference in order to enjoy it for what it is.
It's basically a time machine song. A Grandpa who will not (and cannot) let go of his 1965 perspective.
There seems to be a common delusion going on here : that once the reverb hits a certain level of wetness, the track becomes corny.
In reality, those trying to objectively describe it (highly wet verb) as corny are actually simply showing their awkward, stubborn, inflexible reaction to it because they subjectively crave more dryness.
Could you please post a current 70 year old with a 2012 release who based his entire career on writing extremely adventurous & melodic megahit pop songs derived from sophisticated chord patterns ?
I'd like to compare apples with apples.
Paul, for example.
What's his latest attempt to do the time machine thing ?
Surely it is impossible to make a response to your question. The reason is is that taste and point of view color all.
I'm requesting specific comments on the sonics (which is influenced by the gear, tracking, performance, recording medium, mixing, production, mastering).
Is there a sonic aspect of the song where we'd find concensus, meaning, that aspect (for example, the level of the vocals during the bridge - too loud ? too harsh ?) we'd generally agree is inferior and could be improved ?
Taste, phase of life, and mood of the minute are everything.
BTW - I was a huge BB fan when I was in HS.
Loved the harmonies, arrangements, voices and vibe - my fav album hands down, Smiley Smile.
Vegetables, Little Pad, She's Goin' Bald, Wind Chimes - brilliant, psychedelic, simply awesome adventurous and ORIGINAL music.
Anyway, regarding your OP - I get it, but it's dated. It has to be. It's the BBs.
I don't know ANYONE writing and recording music since the 50s and 60s who sounds CURRENT.
It's got a nice, standard BB vibe, though, and that's great.
It's got all their musical composition, arrangement and performance staples - which are all great!
But overall, I agree with IHateMyUsername.
I compose and produce music for current TV and film.
If I produced something like this - which I wouldn't - it would be for some retro thing.
It's all in the songwriting, arrangements, production, mix, etc.
It just sounds like a more polished version of old style music.
The BB's are great at what they do, but it's not modern sounding music.
I still like it, but I'm into different stuff now.
I like music that's either raw - like live Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan, or completely polished contemporary pop, like Gaga and Britney.
I also love densely scored stuff, and slick ambient stuff with original sound design.
And I love well recorded bridge and post-romantic classical music, as well as tons of world music.
This just sounds dated. It sounds like it could almost have been recorded 20 years ago, or 10 years ago.
As many have said in the Gotye Someone I Used to Know thread,
SO OFTEN, you simply can't separate the MUSIC from the production and mix.
I'm one of those guys who LOVE that song. Love the writing, performance, production and mix -
even if the vocal arrangements are simpler, and there are no modulations.
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