In Your Opinion, What About This Song *Isn't* Beautiful ?

[Sqye]

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As to your categories, I'd give them all an A, but I'm not interested in listening to the song again.

And I was a huge fan years and years ago.

I'm also not that into God...

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[Happy Musicfan]

Originally Posted by Sqye

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As to your categories, I'd give them all an A

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So would I, because I don't notice anything sonically which could be considered to be inferior or in need of improvement.


And I DO see how someone could cringe at gramps in the time machine though, as it's an aesthetic angle you'd have to embrace in order to enjoy.

[spoinkel]

Originally Posted by Happy Musicfan

Or maybe the corporate poptart modernistas have dumbed down the pop paradigm so much that it appears to be harmonically messy in comparison.

A complex chord progression can flow beautifully, like in God only knows, or it can be halting, like in God made the radio. It all starts well (I, vi, vii, iii) but then jumps to VI -- in major, no less. (It's not the numbers or theory that matters, it's just the feeling that something sounds weird.) The progession is saved nicely by the time they reach the chorus, but why jump in a puddle of mud on your way to a date? Maybe I could acquire a taste for it within time but it's just not likable enough for a wow effect.

(I bought a ticket to their Berlin gig anyway.)

[Happy Musicfan]

Originally Posted by spoinkel

but then jumps to VI -- in major, no less.

Maybe if adventurous harmonic jumps were more commonplace, folks wouldn't find them so disturbing ?


I can hear classmates in Dr. Luke's College Of Cool Composition right now : ''EGAD ! He went to the wrong chord !"

[Bob Ross]

Originally Posted by IHateMyUsername

you would wish you could unlearn theory, because for me at least, musical theory has made me more or less dependent on tonal centers.

If you're "dependent on tonal centers" you don't need to unlearn music theory, you just need to learn more music theory!

(...and -- more importantly -- expose yourself to more music that doesn't depend on tonal centers.)

[PRobb]

Speaking as a major Beach Boys fan, the song in the OP gets a solid MEH from me. Nothing wrong with it, nothing particularly exciting.
All good, all professional sounding, but meh.
Go back and listen to God Only Knows or In my Room. If you want later stuff, try Disney Girls or Surfs Up.

[IHateMyUsername]

Originally Posted by Happy Musicfan

There seems to be a common delusion going on here : that once the reverb hits a certain level of wetness, the track becomes corny.


In reality, those trying to objectively describe it (highly wet verb) as corny are actually simply showing their awkward, stubborn, inflexible reaction to it because they subjectively crave more dryness.

OR because wet reverb is connoted with bad recordings where they use it to hide the flaws (not that there are any in this example, but it still gives me that kind of feel!), but instead end up sounding washy. It sounds unprofessional, and therefore also tasteless. Subtlety is an important part of every art, and here, there is none of it. More of everything! Tonally, effects-wise etc.

[IHateMyUsername]

Originally Posted by Bob Ross

If you're "dependent on tonal centers" you don't need to unlearn music theory, you just need to learn more music theory!

(...and -- more importantly -- expose yourself to more music that doesn't depend on tonal centers.)

I don't see how the classical harmony I've learned makes me less dependent on tonal centers... Of course I could take that knowledge further and study Wagner, early Schoenberg and the likes, and I do experiment with that kind of harmony as well. My point is, that at times it feels like you are *learning* your head to think that some harmonic movements are more correct than others, and thus, you lose the ability to come over things that would sound way more original. No matter how much you study the more sophisticated ways of classical harmony, you will still be stuck with that particular aesthetic. It doesn't suddenly become something else.

[Bob Ross]

Originally Posted by IHateMyUsername

at times it feels like you are *learning* your head to think that some harmonic movements are more correct than others...

Oh sure, absolutely. The continuum from "consonant" to "dissonant" is a very personal, individually-determined line that depends heavily on one's environment. I.e., it's Learned Behavior

Originally Posted by IHateMyUsername

...and thus, you lose the ability to come over things that would sound way more original. No matter how much you study the more sophisticated ways of classical harmony, you will still be stuck with that particular aesthetic. It doesn't suddenly become something else.

"Suddenly", no. But I completely disagree that you will be "stuck" with an aesthetic preference that you developed earlier in your life. Very few people grow up listening to modern jazz (sic) or the Second Viennese School or post-war serialism when they're kids...and yet plenty of people are able to hear those musics now without being burdened by the notion that what they're listening to isn't harmonious, beautiful, or "correct". That too is Learned Behavior...it just usually gets learned later in life.

[IHateMyUsername]

Originally Posted by Bob Ross

Oh sure, absolutely. The continuum from "consonant" to "dissonant" is a very personal, individually-determined line that depends heavily on one's environment. I.e., it's Learned Behavior

I get your point about learned behavior, but the first sentence seemed rather contradictive?

Originally Posted by Bob Ross

"Suddenly", no. But I completely disagree that you will be "stuck" with an aesthetic preference that you developed earlier in your life. Very few people grow up listening to modern jazz (sic) or the Second Viennese School or post-war serialism when they're kids...and yet plenty of people are able to hear those musics now without being burdened by the notion that what they're listening to isn't harmonious, beautiful, or "correct". That too is Learned Behavior...it just usually gets learned later in life.

I don't have a disregard of those aesthetics. What I meant was that the more you move into a specific aesthetic, the more your intuitively made choices will be affected by that. When I do something intuitively, I want it to be a result of my own thoughts, not something I consciously learned from studying somebody else. Mark the word consciously. Of course, everything, like you say yourself, is learned behavior. Everything your imagination makes up is a result of your earlier experiences. A blind person can't imagine the color green. So, of course, everything could more or less be called learned behavior.

To put what I meant simple and short: I rather want my knowledge to be a result of what I create, than having what I create to be a result of my knowledge.

[tridelica]

The Beach Boys were the first group I fell in love with, aong with CSNY.
To this day I am in awe that Brian could get his untrained Boys to sing in such exquisite harmony.
Brian was heavily influenced by the Four Freshmen, who were the proto-Beach Boys; and they could be stunningly good, with no further 'production values' other than some trumpets.
'Out of date' arguments are irrelevant. Who cares? Classical music - the benchmark of greatness - is 'out of date.'
Beach Boys are a new form of classical music. They are America's Beatles, as units-sold will attest.
I find it painfully nostalgic to watch this video, with the memories it evinces.
'God only knows' where we would be without the timelessness that are the Beach Boys. That why God made them (and the radio).

[77James]

I think it's almost tongue and cheek. It's retro, it's reminiscent of many Beach Boys songs and it's nostalgic ( if you were around from their start ). Someone made a great point, classical doesn't keep up with the times or sound modern but it's still beautiful. You immediately know who it is because that's their sound, big production and all. Unique chord progressions, doubled vocals, moving interwoven harmonies and yes, lot's of reverb. It may not be modern, but I'd rather see someone do what they do best and act their age then to look and sound foolish trying to look and sound younger then they are. I'm one of those old farts and I love a lot of contemporary music, I love classical, and I've always loved the Beach Boys. There's something for everyone. If everyone wanted to be a first baseman, or a pitcher, there'd never be a baseball team. The arrangement and the production isn't modern, and it may not be everyone's cup of tea, but I think it's extremely well done. It is what it is! A little bit of nostalgia and a little bit of Americana!

[LimpyLoo]

Originally Posted by Bob Ross

Oh sure, absolutely. The continuum from "consonant" to "dissonant" is a very personal, individually-determined line that depends heavily on one's environment. I.e., it's Learned Behavior

Man, so true.

But...