Ivory timing issues

[papiel]

Hi,
I'm using Ivory with Logic Pro. Sound banks are on an external Firewire 800 Lacie HD.
It does respond pretty well (with low buffer settings) when I play it real time, but then when I listen back to the track the timing is a bit off. Some notes are ok but others are just delayed a bit, but enough to make a difference.
I've into all possible tweaks (Ivory's internal buffer set to minimum, number of voices etc..) but sooner or later I get these timing instabilities.

Any idea?

P

[ajfarber]

Originally Posted by papiel

Hi,
I'm using Ivory with Logic Pro. Sound banks are on an external Firewire 800 Lacie HD.
It does respond pretty well (with low buffer settings) when I play it real time, but then when I listen back to the track the timing is a bit off. Some notes are ok but others are just delayed a bit, but enough to make a difference.
I've into all possible tweaks (Ivory's internal buffer set to minimum, number of voices etc..) but sooner or later I get these timing instabilities.

Any idea?

P

I use Ivory with Logic pro 7, and my sample are on an internal HD. The jingle Co. I work for has Ivory on an external HD and uses Logic with a PT-TDM front end. I find the same issue over there. Sounds fine in realtime but is slightly phuq-dup in playback.

My theory:

Streaming issue from fragmented HD or,

Controller keyboard is wierd (jive theory) or,

latency monitoring is different in rec than in playback mode. I'd start with adjusting your delay for your pno track in Logic's arrange page.

Keep me posted and email me w/ any questions.

andyfarber@mac.com

[crypticglobe]

Guys... firewire (even 800) is a HORRIBLE solution for content libraries. The bandwidth is limited and the firewire controller is very low on the list of devices that get priority to the CPU. Get those libraries on a fast internal SATA drive and your problems will go away.

[papiel]

Thanks,
I wish I could use an internal SATA, both slots in my G5 are already used...

P

[s_sibs]

I have Ivory on a Glyph Firewire400 drive and run it in Nuendo. I have no timing issues. Could it be a RAM issue? I did have to by a gig more of RAM it run Ivory smoothly.

Peace

[JazzYoda]

Originally Posted by crypticglobe

Guys... firewire (even 800) is a HORRIBLE solution for content libraries. The bandwidth is limited and the firewire controller is very low on the list of devices that get priority to the CPU. Get those libraries on a fast internal SATA drive and your problems will go away.

I have to agree, on multiple levels. Firewire is not a parallel bus and can get easily "filled" up. I've had way too many headaches using a FW audio interface along with a FW hard drive. I would, if at all possible, try to get those samples onto a fast SATA or ATA or SCSI drive. It may be possible to use USB2.0 if you are using FW for audio, but I have yet to test the outcome of that.

On another note, I have *never* thought that playing a keyboard attached to an internal sound played without latency. Even with the smallest buffer sizes I can muster, there is still a tiny bit of latency (perhaps only noticeable on 32nd notes). My solution is to play the onboard sounds on the keyboard, recording the MIDI information, and then changing the track to an "audio instrument" later. I would only do this if the latency issue would bother me more than the issue of differences in recorded volume and intensity over different sampler instruments. I miss my piano.

[crypticglobe]

To Papiel:

You can buy a SATA controller card (PCI and now I think PCIe too) that will allow you to add up to 8 more SATA drive. The Highpoint 18020a is the best, but there are many other less expensive models. :)

To: Jazz Joda:

Not sure what platform you are on, but when using Nuendo or Cubase on my machine I can bring the soundcard buffers (RME) down to 1.5ms and it works great. This amount of latency is not detectable... even by some of the most anal pianists I have ever known. For that matter... is neither is 3ms which is what I usually work at.

If you can't get latency that low on your system... there might be something wrong.

[Bryce]

Originally Posted by crypticglobe

Guys... firewire (even 800) is a HORRIBLE solution for content libraries. The bandwidth is limited and the firewire controller is very low on the list of devices that get priority to the CPU. Get those libraries on a fast internal SATA drive and your problems will go away.

Fully agreed. I have Ivory on a SATA drive, and it runs flawlessly.

dB

[Dan Phillips]

Originally Posted by papiel

Thanks,
I wish I could use an internal SATA, both slots in my G5 are already used...

Someone already noted that you can get a SATA PCI card. I'll add that Sonnet makes a handy, relatively inexpensive kit for mounting the drives themselves internally, called G5 Jive (though it's also possible to use SATA drives externally, if desired). I have the G5 Jive and it works well for me. The custom power cable and instructions for cable-routing, in particular, make it worthwhile.

- Dan

[theother]

Originally Posted by papiel

Thanks,
I wish I could use an internal SATA, both slots in my G5 are already used...

P

Get a real computer like a PC where you can fit 8 drives internal and have 8 SATA connectors!


Only winding you up....


PS: I do run 8 SATA WD Raptor 150GB drives on mine. Got fed up with the limitations of Macs years ago and never looked back since I made the jump for WinXP. All is good...

Nuendo 3.2.1. | 2x Dual Core Opteron 270 | SuperMicro H8DCE | 4GB ECC REG DDR400 RAM | 7x 150GB WD1500ADFD Raptor SATA | 4x 500GB Hitachi SATA300 Deskstar | ATI X1900 XTX PCIe 500MB | NEC 2080UXi | Magma 7-slot chassis | 2x UAD-1 | RME MADI | WinXP Pro SP2

[elambo]

I have Ivory and a few other direct-from-disc libraries on a FW800 drive and I can run thick MIDI compositions from three libraries simultaneously with NO problems. SATA may be faster, but in my experience FW800 is quite fast enough. It's important to have a clean drive when adding Ivory's samples - if the drive is fragmented and the samples are thrown all over the place it WILL cause problems. I make sure the libraries are written sequentially and NOT fragmented in any way.

[papiel]

Thanks for all the help guys!!

About SATA PCI card, well I have all 3 PCI slots filled too :).

Anyway, from reading your helpful posts it seems that not everyone fully understood my problem. I'll try to explain it:
Let's say I'm playing eight-notes rock piano chords on mid to hi tempo (something in the spirit of Rocky Horror Show). When recording the part and playing it back, for the most part it behaves normally as if I was replaying a DX7 driven by an atari 1024ST.

BUT, even if I quantize these chords so that the midi notes contained in each one are beginning exactly at the same time, some of these chords will play back slightly arpeggiated, as if humanized by Ivory...