Please help me understand why my faux M/S is not working...

[TRJanuary]

In order to create a traditional type of M/S, the source material was supposed to be recorded with an array consisting of a cardioid mic for the center, and a figure 8 mic for the sides.

I am not aware of any valid technique where you simply copy a single track of a VST instrument and manipulate only the polarity and panning to create M/S material.

There are probably many variations on the technique of which I am unaware, but what you are describing does not ring a bell.

[Matti]

Duplicating a mono track wont make it stereo and also the phase reversed right copy of course cancels out the more you mix it in. Read the theory

Matti

[rack gear]

mathewlane.com - DrMS spatial processor plugin



DrMS spatial processor plugin

http://www.tapeop.com/reviews/739/

[foamboy]

Thanks for the replies and confirming what I thought was probably taking place.

After all I did say that it is a FAUX M/S technique.


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[MisterMark]

Yeah don't think you will ever get there manipulating 3 tracks of the same thing.

Although it would be completely different than M/S you try the following for an interesting result:

1. Nudge the first snare track to the left 10-15ms and pan to the left
2 Leave the second snare track in the middle
3. Nudge the third snare track to the right 10-15ms and pan to the right
4. Apply a reverb to the left and right snare and remove the dry signal as well as any pre-delay.

Once again this isn't supposed to emulate a true M/S array but it will add an interesting sense of space to things... However, it probably won't sound very impressive on instruments that don't have much dynamic range or sustain for long periods of time like keyboard pads. In my experience seems to work best with percussive passages or vocals.

-Mark

[froinlaven]

It's just basic math.

The left and mid are the same track. The right side is inverted.

If you are adding gain to the mid, you are also removing gain from the right while also adding gain to the left.

[theblue1]

Originally Posted by froinlaven

It's just basic math.

The left and mid are the same track. The right side is inverted.

If you are adding gain to the mid, you are also removing gain from the right while also adding gain to the left.

Right.

It pays to actually understand what one is trying to do when one experiments. That said, an 'unexpected' result such as this one is a message that should tell the experimenter: something is wrong with your precepts -- go back to square one and figure out where your understanding went wrong. (And, hey, it takes more than a minute for most of us to wrap our pretty little heads around M/S mic technique and M/S mix affects.)

It's hard not to be sympathetic with newbs here -- since there are a number of people here talking with much certainty but with precious little actual solid knowledge who mangle and confuse the 'facts' and trumpet them across the BB.

GS can be a great resource -- there are some deeply knowledgeable and experienced people here -- but there are a large number of people here who have little technical understanding but act as though they know everything there is to know.

If you don't already have a pretty good knowledge base, I strongly suspect it can be a real headache trying to figure out who is credible, who is full of nonsense, and who floats in between. (Full disclosure: I count myself in the floats in between category. )

[Syncamorea]

The side mic has quite a bit of reflected sound in it, and thus the two components vibrating its capsule have real right and left information that is very room dependent, music dependent, etc. I've taken a snare track, triplicated it, then played around with delay, reverb, EQ and panning on two of the tracks to build some space around the un-affected original track. It was successful, but limited success. Some thought it was more distracting than just putting a good reverb on the snare.