16 channel summing, how many mono channels?

[aszacca]

Right johnny..typically in a 16 ch sum you'll have 4 monos..but that's not a rule..
You could have all ch switchable to mono..

My set-up will end to have 4 monos(kick-snare-vox-bass)..
Out of the sum i'd get into a gentle comp and gentle eq,and then back in the coverters..
If you want to give an extra bus comp to all drum-set,do it (in digital) before to go to the sum..
-very important-apply those gentle analog bus processing before you start mixing.
They have to be part of what you doing since the beginning.crucial.

Last but not least...passive summing needs amplification to survive...i beg you know that.
cheers

[Faderjockey]

Originally Posted by johnnyc

Am gonna build a passive summer and hardwire the mono and L/R channels. Curious to see how others are stemming things out and also how many mono channels you typically use?

I'm thinking for rock stuff:
Drum bus (L/R)
Parallel drum bus (L/R)
Lead Vox (mono)
Bass (mono)
Guitar bus (L/R)
Keys bus (L/R)
Background Vox (L/R)
Reverbs (L/R)
Effects/Misc (L/R)

Would like to send out kick and snare separately, but then how do you do drum bus compression?

YEP!! That's been my problem..
I use a D-box for monitoring/summing.
I had a Folcrom and still had the same issue. keeping the drums stemmed gives you the answer for buss treatment in the box or even over all coming out of the box into a hardware comp..But then I hate riding the drums up/down and having it push funny into the compressor.

But I found I do like the sound better of the kit split out..so for now I've actually been using my Prsonus M80 as a 8ch mixer (since it is a line mixer as well.until I get something better) I split my kit out across those 8ch's..then I pad the buss out of the M80 and run that through a micpre like TG2 actually last song I mixed I used Langevin DVC behind M80 then I go through a stereo comp then return that back to the D-Box. Everything else goes to the D-Box and I either go out of that to a comp..or sometimes even use a preamp after that if I want more color.
But I think having something like a 6 to 8ch mixer helps.
If you're building it. Maybe thing about building a 6 to 8ch one just for drums
Then you can treat the 2 ch out of that then send it to your 16ch summing box. If you have the pres and all.

[johnnyc]

Hmm, haven't considered a separate drum summer but it's an interesting idea. I actually have an 8x2 passive summer already, perhaps use that for drums into an API and then that into the master summer with another mic pre. Slightly worried about 2 stages of passive summing with the noise floor but can give it a shot. Or just design and build the whole thing active from the start, but that's a bit more of a time commitment.

[Faderjockey]

Do you realize how many stages a console goes through? Those 2 pres aren't a problem. I've done session with many more pres and grouped hardware units.
It's fine..

I've seen plenty of guys now using lots of different summing units together.
Now a days you can have lots of different units for different projects and sounds. Not like you can have several consoles in one room.

For me putting pres on drums for a certain sound then adding other pres on the 2buss actually don't get in the way. They seem to play nice together and it's nice when you find the pres you like for drums then the pres for 2buss.
It really puts life back in ITB mixing.

[johnnyc]

Originally Posted by Faderjockey

Do you realize how many stages a console goes through?.

True, but not all summing stages are created equal. From a dynamic range and S/N ratio perspective, doing attenuation then makeup gain is far from ideal. But as a practical matter for something like rock drums it probably won't matter.

One more thing regarding effects like reverb. If using multiple ones would you stem them out together as a separate summed reverb stem? Or sum internally and keep the drum verb with the drums, guitar verb with guitar, etc.

[Jack Ruston]

I find that use of mono's is too restrictive. It's fine if you only mix stuff that you've produced and you have a working method in place, but then someone gives you a track with electronic drums and bass and everything is stereo. Sure, you may end up making some of that stuff mono, but a lot of it needs to be stereo in that sort of stuff.

I'm using a folcrom....

Drums compressed
Drums dry
Bass
Guitars
Keys
Main vocals
Backing vocals
Fx

All stereo if needs be.

I used to split kick and snare, but now I group the drums to a pair and have the parallel. I haven't found it sounds worse than the kick snare split. But I think the eight channel sub mix is a good plan. So what would you do? Kick snare, stereo toms, everything else, parallel stereo?

[johnnyc]

Originally Posted by Jack Ruston

So what would you do? Kick snare, stereo toms, everything else, parallel stereo?

Probably something like that. Though would probably do the parallel as a mult after the make up gain mic pre.

[Jack Ruston]

The only possible issue there is that a difference in 'speed' and phase response between the kit and the mult could possibly do something you don't prefer. Or it could make it better. Or it might not be audible at all. I guess it depends on the two mic amps and the relative level of the mult. It's probably worth testing it, all other things being equal and see if it does make a difference. I expect the compressor itself does that sort of stuff anyway. Might be interesting to see.

Guess you'd have to line up the drum unit preamp first, connected straight to the two track return, then connect it and line up the main one.

J

[Faderjockey]

I usually stem all F/X together.. But there has been mixes where I put the verb in a stem that's going to the drum summing because the compression I maybe using on the kit makes the verb sustain better or gluing better.

But most times I keep F/X together. Also not every mix does the drums get stemmed out to the other mixer.
The last song I did It sounded/felt way better so I did it. but lots of times I'm doing Kit as a stereo stem. But I think if I get another summing unit to go with my D-Box.. I will be using the 8ch's on the D-box to sum mix drums more often.

It sort of sucks.. I like keeping them together because it's easier and I can treat in ITB and recall is easy.. but when I break it out and then run the drums through pres like the TG or Neve the color weight it adds makes it so much better..but then I'm forced to use outboard comps/EQ and then the whole recall thing..
I worked on consoles for reason this was never a problem.. But now that we are in the DAW world I'm lazy.. and when jumping around projects the more ITB you stay the faster it is.. So like anything else I guess there is up's/downs..