Can you Produce a "Hit Song" ?

[djwayne]

Now if I compare my little home studio to Peter Gabriel's Real World Studio, of course he wins in the departments of gear, building, atmosphere, staff, quality sound. HOWEVER, if I spent a year at his place producing a cd, he could easily charge me $100,000+ for the production of my cd, which those costs would have to be made up in record sales and tour revenues. There's no guarantee that I'd get any record sales or tour revenues. So who's paying that $100,000 ??

[trippy]

Neve 1073 - $4125 (at Sonic Circus)
Urei 1176 - $2800 (this is what the last Rev B on eBay sold for)
Apogee Rosetta 200 - $1800 at Sweetwater

Total: $8725 hmm... that sure is a lot less than a million bucks.

Rent/borrow a U47 (even if you buy one for $8800, that puts the budget still well below a million bucks), and other than drums (which I track in a big studio), I can track everything else at home and have a completely pro sound.[/QUOTE]

this is a pretty realistic scenario, and I salute your approach...

but you can certainly get yourself on the map for a lot less...people are too hung up on equipment...I know of major label releases that charted where key elements-yes, even lead vocals-were recorded on cassette 8 track (yeah, that's 8 tracks on a 1/8" tape) and/or other "demo" formats...same goes for half-inch 16 track masters...

if you need a real eye-opener, listen to the first album by the Rembrandts...Fostex 16 track, one amp (Vox AC-30) for guitar AND bass...garage, a couple of mics..a healthy dose of talent...

[djwayne]

See this is the music business. What is business ?? It when you try to MAKE money, not JUST spend it. As with any business, you have to keep your production costs reasonable for the quality of product you want to deliver. It doesn't mean you have to spend a zillion dollars making your music, although, that's what equipment manufactures and some studio's would like. At the same time, there's lots of cheap junk out there that IS a waste of money...so you have to find what works for you.

[kenkelly81]

Originally Posted by confooshus

Why does someone with no gear have over 3000 posts on this forum? You talk way too much. Here's a quote from an ancient book: "Even a fool is thought wise if he remains silent."

It's quite apparent to me that he has little or no clue.

Sorry I just call it like I see it.

KC

[Jose Mrochek]

Originally Posted by confooshus

Why does someone with no gear have over 3000 posts on this forum? You talk way too much. Here's a quote from an ancient book: "Even a fool is thought wise if he remains silent."

So freelance people are not allowed to post here ? I´m a musician at this point in time. Hey I actually produced some stuff for some people, never bought recording gear though.. I didn´t know you were required to OWN gear when posting here. I thought experience was enough.. well, I´ll go buy myself a mic pre right now and then come in here and say that the other 200 pre´s outthere sucks because I said so hahahaa

[Jose Mrochek]

Originally Posted by kenkelly81

It's quite apparent to me that he has little or no clue.

Sorry I just call it like I see it.

KC

About what sweety ??

[Jose Mrochek]

I don´t want to rain on your parade Mr. Abbey Road can kiss my ass studio owners... but you guys are wacko if you think you can get the same results at home then at a truely high end facility. Post some MP3´s, I will show you a major release that kicks their sonic butt.

[Jose Mrochek]

Originally Posted by djwayne

Now if I compare my little home studio to Peter Gabriel's Real World Studio, of course he wins in the departments of gear, building, atmosphere, staff, quality sound. HOWEVER, if I spent a year at his place producing a cd, he could easily charge me $100,000+ for the production of my cd, which those costs would have to be made up in record sales and tour revenues. There's no guarantee that I'd get any record sales or tour revenues. So who's paying that $100,000 ??

Dude.. If I had the money to spend 100k and record at Real World studio´s, I would not even blink about it. The things you mentioned, atmosphere, staff, and quality of sound are priceless. Never imagine you will get the same results at home investing 40k. It won´t happen. Good results ?? even great results ? hell yeah!! but it will never sound quiet the same. It´s like saying, why would I spend 5k a track with Bob Clearmountain, if I could buy myself a HD rig and spend hours and hours mixing it yourself. But I wont get into much more debate because they offended me by saying I suck because i don´t own gear : )

[djwayne]

So what do these high end places charge to produce a song ?? Is that affordable to the average musician ?? If you are a signed artist, are the record companies footing the bill ?? Doesn't that cost come out of the artist's advance ??

Take a look at the recent thread about Guns and Roses, the most expensive album never made.

[confooshus]

Originally Posted by Jose Mrochek

I didn´t know you were required to OWN gear when posting here. I thought experience was enough.. well, I´ll go buy myself a mic pre right now and then come in here and say that the other 200 pre´s outthere sucks because I said so hahahaa

I think it would work better for everyone if you just save your money and keep your mouth shut.

[djwayne]

Originally Posted by Jose Mrochek

Dude.. If I had the money to spend 100k and record at Real World studio´s, I would not even blink about it. The things you mentioned, atmosphere, staff, and quality of sound are priceless. Never imagine you will get the same results at home investing 40k. It won´t happen. Good results ?? even great results ? hell yeah!! but it will never sound quiet the same. It´s like saying, why would I spend 5k a track with Bob Clearmountain, if I could buy myself a HD rig and spend hours and hours mixing it yourself. But I wont get into much more debate because they offended me by saying I suck because i don´t own gear : )

See, this is the point, most artists don't have $100,000 to spend on a cd project at Real World, you have to live within a budget. So you do the best you can with what you have available to you.

[djwayne]

The other point is, even if you did spend $5,000 getting Bob Clearmountain to work on your song, there's no guarantee, your song will become a hit. It may sound pretty, but you may end up with a couple of reels of tape and a thousand copies of your song sitting in storage in your basement, for your $5,000.

[Jose Mrochek]

Originally Posted by djwayne

So what do these high end places charge to produce a song ?? Is that affordable to the average musician ?? If you are a signed artist, are the record companies footing the bill ?? Doesn't that cost come out of the artist's advance ??

Take a look at the recent thread about Guns and Roses, the most expensive album never made.

Man, you are bringing up arguments I never brought up. I´m not here to discuss the current music biz as it is. You are more than welcome to visit my webpage, everything was recorded with gear that may even amuse you. I´m on the poor side.. but I had the chance to work at a high end facility, and a nice room is a nice room is a nice room. Those rooms alone I think cost more than 100k in floors alone, and trust me.. YOU HEAR the difference.

So if a studio at home that costs 40k is pro then, what is Air studios in london ? or Hit Factory miami ?? I remember someone telling me that even the carpenters where brought all the way from the UK to place the floor at Criteria (now hit factory) ... that probably cost more than 99% of the ¨pro¨ studios many people like to talk about. Why did they do it ??? because it sounds amazing.

Why do some acoustic guitars sound amazing while others suck ??? because of their construction and wood work. Something that is rarely even brought up in gs.com ... so , I don´t know man.. if some of you guys think that by buying a bunch of nice pre´s you are ready for the big leagues, have fun trying.

[Alécio Costa]

When was the last time you bought a CD? I ask this to many people and I am shocked by their answers.
Most complain thet album X has only 2 good songs and so. OThers say it is too expensive and one can have it for free via KAzza, emule or whatever it is.

See, most of the new generation seems to prefer Free downloaded music.

I am 36, from a time buying a record was a great opportunity . Read the lyrics, explore evry side of the production, etc.

The last albums I bought: Lisa Stansfield live at Ronny Scott, latest Toto, Duran Duran and Rush Albums.

[djwayne]

I have also spent some time in a high end studio, and yes indeed it sounded great, but if you dig into the nitty gritty history of any studio, you'll find they also have produce a great big pile of doo doo that never went anywhere. I'll bet even your idol Bob Clearmountain has had his share of stinkers.

It's amazing, but some of the bigger "name" artists can sell a million copies and still lose money on their cd, due to production and marketing costs.

[Jose Mrochek]

The last records I bought were, Stones a ¨bigger bang¨, Paul McCartneys ¨Chaos and creation¨, Oasis .. ¨don´t believe the truth¨, Coldplay ¨XY¨, Cerati ¨ahi vamos¨.. and a couple more i don´t remember.

by the way, for the cry babies in this thread.. Chaos and Creation is a high end sounding CD, I would put some money if someone with a 40k studio, comes up with a better sounding album or even more fun, show me ANYTHING that sounds better than Guilmors solo ¨live¨ DVD.

[Jose Mrochek]

Originally Posted by djwayne

I have also spent some time in a high end studio, and yes indeed it sounded great, but if you dig into the nitty gritty history of any studio, you'll find they also have produce a great big pile of doo doo that never went anywhere. I'll bet even your idol Bob Clearmountain has had his share of stinkers.

It's amazing, but some of the bigger "name" artists can sell a million copies and still lose money on their cd, due to production and marketing costs.

oh man.. are you serious ??? what does sound quality have anything to do with hits ?? ... were we even arguing about that ??? come on...

[djwayne]

Get real, sound quality doesn't mean anything without sales. If an artist loses a ton of money on his first release, will there be a second ?? In some cases yes, but in many cases no.

If a tree falls in the woods and nobody hears it, did it happen ??

[Jose Mrochek]

Originally Posted by djwayne

Get real, sound quality doesn't mean anything without sales.

It may not mean much to you, but when I do my stuff.. it´s part of my job to be certain that the product i´m going to put out sounds the best it can considering the bugdet.

Even if I don´t sell 1 cd, I will not save one AVAILABLE penny and deliver an album that could have sounded better. Never did, probably never will.

[djwayne]

"considering the budget"


ahhh you're starting to come around.


If the artist comes to you with no money, do you send him away with nothing ??

[Kestral]

Since we're on the subject of atmosphere, I personally find big studios very uncomfortable to do things in.

Yes, I go in there to record drums but when it comes to my own tracking, I like being in a smaller more comfortable space where I can chill out and do my thing vs. watching the clock running.

[slaves666]

I don't care how good a record sounds, or what studio it was recorded in......if the songs suck.....they suck, no one will buy it.

There is also no guarantee that your record will be "better" in a more expensive studio. A lot of artist choke in a big room that costs 1.5k a day to rent......sometimes the small 1 room studio has the intimacy that makes artists comfortable.

Remember, its about the songs and performance, not the NEVE or SSL.

[Jose Mrochek]

Originally Posted by djwayne

"considering the budget"


ahhh you're starting to come around.


If the artist comes to you with no money, do you send him away with nothing ??

You are going to make me cry....

Say you are a nice rich guy and give me 40k for my album RECORDING/MIXING budget. Then I would hire a studio and staff for 40k. I´m not going to say well.. if I spend 8k on pre´s, and 10k on on comps.. and do everything by myself..then I would have 20k left for my pocket because I don´t know whats going to happen next.

But that´s because I am like I am.. I recently put all my saved money into a video, I have cero in the bank currently.. smart thing to do ??? probably not.. but I will have a kick ass video next week. My music is my life.. So if not now when ?? Again, if you give me 100k .. I would be giving hit factory a call. Somepeople are wise, I´m stupid.. but I´m having a great time in the process.

[Jose Mrochek]

Originally Posted by Kestral

Since we're on the subject of atmosphere, I personally find big studios very uncomfortable to do things in.

Yes, I go in there to record drums but when it comes to my own tracking, I like being in a smaller more comfortable space where I can chill out and do my thing vs. watching the clock running.

I agree, if you are going to watch the clock don´t step into a high end room.

[5down1up]

what r you guys talking about ?

[Jose Mrochek]

Originally Posted by 5down1up

what r you guys talking about ?

the world cup, it starts tommorow!!!!!!!!

[djwayne]

There's a lot of hype and baloney in this business. Years ago, I did book time in a "pro studio" and was told I'd get this great recording I could never get at home. The guy had a Tascam 8 track reel to reel and I was impressed at the time. But it sucked, and cost me a few hundred dollars. I've learned not become impressed with studio owners telling me how good their studio sounds. I had one rave and rave and rave about his "pro" studio with a Soundcraft board, AKG 414 mic, so I go over there, and his sound booth is the size of a telephone booth, and I was expected to play guitar in there ???? hahahaha it even had a light bulb inside and a glass window to the studio room. Atmosphere ?? I felt like I was inside an Easy Bake Oven. But he swore up and down this is "pro" studio.......The quality of recording ?? Was no better than what I could get at home, at the time.

So yes there are some sucky home studio's, just as there are some sucky pro studio's.

[djwayne]

You're going to call the Hit Factory ??? Why ?? To buy some stuff ??? Read on....




Multi Facility Recording Studio Liquidation

Jun 8, 2006 3:44 PM

Clarification: In the MixLine newsletter of 6/5/06, a headline involving Professional Audio Design apparently created some confusion. Here is the new version.

Following the successful liquidation of recording equipment from The Hit Factory, Professional Audio Design has been retained to liquidate several other studios, and is currently selling off a large quantity of used and vintage equipment. Highlights include Neve, SSL and Euphonix consoles, Studer, Sony and Otari tape machines, racked Neve and Focusrite modules, Pultec EQs, EMT plate and digital reverbs, outboard gear from Urei, Teletronix, Lexicon, TC, Tube Tech, Eventide, dbx and much more. Go to www.proaudiodesign.com/pdf/liquidation.pdf for a complete list. All reasonable offers considered, everything must go.

[Sqye]

fix it in the marketing

jose, i think you're an idealist - that's ok.

you'll see, after a decade or two of doing what you're doing.

and believing what you believe.

ego and life experience are strong factors.

no artist or self-actualized professional can sustain without.

so, nobody can tell you what time it is.

maybe you'll prove everyone here wrong one day.

if that's what you really want, and what your destiny is,
i hope you do.

more than anything, though, i wish you all happiness.

because all the rest of this stuff is just a lot of bs, in the end.

jmvho.

carry on lads -

best to all of you.

and, for the record, i disgree with zappa on ONE major point.

music is NOT the best, even though it's great fun.

even music, no matter how great, gets boring, after a while.

LIFE is more important than music.

i've had to realize this OVER and OVER again.

sorry for the ot.

again, my opinion, based on my own decades of experience
(granted, i'm no zappa, or pussycat dolls) -

fix it in the marketing.

billboard and grammy's fuuck

[Jules]

I had a big word fight with a manager friend in the early hours many years back...

His suggestion was never to work on 'average' material and to wait for 'the good stuff'...

He said I was wasting my time recording any act that wasn't as good as say, The Beatles, he was WAITING to find a band as worthwhile.. and until then - was not going to manage any acts..

He was due to crash the night, but I tossed him out into the snow..

It was quite a fight!

How-ever... a good manager friend of mine likes to quote a bigger manager...

"If you think they can sell out stadiums - manage em
If not - just buy their CD

How that applies to recording.. I don't know.. but there is a message buried in there somewhere, (even if it is - if you are about to crash at a record producers house, don't tell him everything he has ever done was a waste of time, just before its time to crash... especially if it is snowing heavily outside)