Can you Produce a "Hit Song" ? - Page 3

Jazzy Alz · 5th June 2006

Creativity is the key. A good song with average production can still make it big.

belairstudio · 5th June 2006

C'mon, production alone doesn't make any difference if a song is not strong enough to walk

A producer can adjust here and there somebody else's song, but if it ain't got the power it needs to score he can't do much

I write and produce.

As a producer I can make the differencein making a song shine or ruin it

As a writer I can hit it or not. A strong and powerful idea is what I look for, as I said earlier

And I agree with the vibe thing. Surely songwrtiting is about collecting emotions in an understandable code

Jazzy Alz · 5th June 2006

I find when I write a nice song it sounds great even when I record the idea onto a dictaphone!

djwayne · 5th June 2006

If you want to learn about hit songs, try being a dj at a live club for about 6 months to a year...people will tell you what they want to hear and what they don't want to hear, and you'll find out there's a lots of songs that you personally may not like, but others do, and you'll also find out that other people may not like what you like. You'll find out what gets the crowd dancing or heading for the door.

You'll also find out alot about target margetingand genres, as you'll want to please the crowd you're playing for. Playing country music in a rock club doesn't go over very well, and playing rock for a country crowd likewise doesn't work. You'll become accutely aware of this as the beer bottles start flying.

Jose Mrochek · 5th June 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jazzy Alz

I find when I write a nice song it sounds great even when I record the idea onto a dictaphone!

true, I usually record ideas on my cellphone. And when I like something, I hear them all the time for pleasure : )

Jazzy Alz · 5th June 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by djwayne

If you want to learn about hit songs, try being a dj at a live club for about 6 months to a year...people will tell you what they want to hear and what they don't want to hear, and you'll find out there's a lots of songs that you personally may not like, but others do, and you'll also find out that other people may not like what you like. You'll find out what gets the crowd dancing or heading for the door.

You'll also find out alot about target margetingand genres, as you'll want to please the crowd you're playing for. Playing country music in a rock club doesn't go over very well, and playing rock for a country crowd likewise doesn't work. You'll become accutely aware of this as the beer bottles start flying.

I understand what you are saying here. My good friends are top dj's who own their own studios. Has this helped them in their quest for great music? No it hasn't really. There are two types of musicians -

1) Those who write music they love (usually broke and no access to record it)
2) Those who write commercial music in the hope to make money

In my opinion a good song should sound good to a wide range of people. Meaning both your young friends and your parents should agree that it is a nice piece of music. The problem with good musicians that create good music is that they are perfectionists. They probably have a number of great songs sitting in their hard drive right now that they are not totally happy with for some silly reason. Recording a great song is importatnt but where to next? Even if it sounds better than the crap on radio, how do you get it out there?

Jose Mrochek · 5th June 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jazzy Alz

There are two types of musicians -

1) Those who write music they love (usually broke and no access to record it)
2) Those who write commercial music in the hope to make money

The biggest commercial succesful bands in history wrote music they loved!!

David Brown · 5th June 2006

Just because there is a Top 40, it doesn't mean that at any given time there are 40 great songs. Ya gotta fill the pipeline...

David Brown

tee boy · 5th June 2006

This is an interesting question, in more ways than one!

Personally, I dont think that the average chart buying public pay much attention to production standards. As long as it sounds roughly as they expect, then all is good by them. So imo, not amount of production and engineering can save a poor song.

However, what I do find interesting is the fact there are engineers out there that value their role so highly as to suggest otherwise. I guess this is understandable - you spend that much time and energy on something, and let it become such a priority in your life, that you can be forgiven for having a slightly warped perspective on it.

Dont get me wrong, Im an engineer myself (of sorts!). And I value as much as anyone the work that goes into making a record sound good. But I highly doubt that anyone outside of the engineering community cares two hoots as long as it 'sounds good'.

I mean, I show friends stuff all the time thats been recorded and mix using budget gear, samples, and DAW's. They cant tell the difference between DFH or a real kit, a Pod or a live miced amp, RenEQ or (enter your favorite slut EQ hither).

But maybe Im coming at this from the wrong angle...

If you mean 'can great production package up a crap song so that it will sit amongst other questionable top 40 releases', then I would probably say yes.

This is more to do with the standard of Top 40 music though, than it is about the value of engineering. If everything in the chart was very good musically, then this rule would definately not apply.

TB

Jazzy Alz · 5th June 2006

well put tee bob (earl grey right?). Me and a friend recorded this singer a few years back with a digi 001, rode classic, yamaha motiff (for all the sounds!) and plug ins for effects. Whoever I've played this song to has loved it and wanted a copy. It was a well written song, very average produstion without mastering and everyone who has listened to it thinks it should be played on radio. It started with the singer coming in and he sang it with a click track and guide acc. guitar. He went away, we used the same vox and made the song around it, worked perfectly. A nice song also gives the engineer inspiration to do a better job.

tee boy · 5th June 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jazzy Alz

well put tee bob (earl grey right?). Me and a friend recorded this singer a few years back with a digi 001, rode classic, yamaha motiff (for all the sounds!) and plug ins for effects. Whoever I've played this song to has loved it and wanted a copy. It was a well written song, very average produstion without mastering and everyone who has listened to it thinks it should be played on radio. It started with the singer coming in and he sang it with a click track and guide acc. guitar. He went away, we used the same vox and made the song around it, worked perfectly. A nice song also gives the engineer inspiration to do a better job.

Indeed.

Tell you what though, there is nothing better to witness a great song go from conception, to demo, to master! Especially if it gets the right treatment at each step. Such a collaborative effort that all comes together over a period time to produce amazing work on both artistic and technical levels. Great stuff!

TB

PS. Its Tee Boy btw... as that is probably what I'll spend my life doing, lol

And when its my shift, I serve nothing but the best... PG tips, my friend!

dreamsongs · 5th June 2006

I agree with this to some degree...

I write songs mostly for commercial release and appeal these days. I have to pay the mortgage ya know ?

But, it wasn't always that way. There was a day back in the 80's when I could write and perform anything with my band and be happy. We almost had a major label release with some songs, then we all broke up, creative differences and egos as they say . Another long story that I'll save for another thread...

Beware that I never said poor or shit songs. I'm primarily talking about songs with a bit of potential, maybe a catchy hook and cute imaginative lyrics. There are a lot of those songs out there today by talented unsigned songwriters who will never see the light of day.

In the meantime, if the artist has a producer/friend/manager/fill in the blank who writes songs, they will do put that song first on an album. The artist will co-write it of course even though he had nothing to do with it and everybody's happy.

This has happened to me a couple of years ago with a good song that was on hold and at the last minute they went with some shit album filler that the artist (who is not a writer) supposedly co-wrote with his manager. Yes, it pissed me off something awful since I had other opportunities during that time frame but that's the nature of the beast and the business...

Anyway, a good song can be very successful with great production from a talented producer but not a bad song, I want to make that clear...

Jazzy Alz · 5th June 2006

To sum up -

A bad song is a bad song - A good song can be a great song - A great song deserves to succeed. All songs are a pain in the ass to finish. Earle Grey is the best tea.

Jazzy Alz · 5th June 2006

PS. Its Tee Boy btw... as that is probably what I'll spend my life doing, lol

And when its my shift, I serve nothing but the best... PG tips, my friend![/QUOTE]

Yes that was a typo. I wish you were here!

lefthando · 5th June 2006

If production didn't contribute to a song's hit status, producer's wouldn't get points.

Any top-selling artist will try to find the best production team they can get, no matter how good the songs are.

Jazzy Alz · 5th June 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by lefthando

If production didn't contribute to a song's hit status, producer's wouldn't get points.

Any top-selling artist will try to find the best production team they can get, no matter how good the songs are.

If you can afford a Ferrari you buy one. Doesn't mean a Ford won't get you there!

tee boy · 5th June 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jazzy Alz

PS. Its Tee Boy btw... as that is probably what I'll spend my life doing, lol

And when its my shift, I serve nothing but the best... PG tips, my friend!

Yes that was a typo. I wish you were here![/QUOTE]

You wouldnt say that if you'd tasted my tea lately! dfegad

TB

tee boy · 5th June 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by lefthando

If production didn't contribute to a song's hit status, producer's wouldn't get points.

Any top-selling artist will try to find the best production team they can get, no matter how good the songs are.

Absolutely, but it appears to me that most of the top producers are more like directors than they are engineers.

If you have a top producer, writing and performance, then there will likely be a great sounding track. Fine engineering is like the icing on the cake.

TB

Chucho · 5th June 2006

You don't hear mediocre songs week in week out in the charts ???

Production is everything. Songwriting is a bonus.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jose Mrochek

you can´t make a hit song out of a mediocre song with production, and you cant shove anything people don´t like no matter how much publicity you use.

dreamsongs · 5th June 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chucho

You don't hear mediocre songs week in week out in the charts ???

Production is everything. Songwriting is a bonus.

See...I told you guys it's very divided.

I'm beginning to think that this is one of those topics that could go on forever because of all the variables...

Jazzy Alz · 5th June 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chucho

You don't hear mediocre songs week in week out in the charts ???

Production is everything. Songwriting is a bonus.

Production is everything??? Without the songwriter there is nothing to produce! Creativity is everything. Production is a bonus.

Jazzy Alz · 5th June 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by dreamsongs

See...I told you guys it's very divided.

I'm beginning to think that this is one of those topics that could go on forever because of all the variables...

It's 11.30 in the morning here, too early to light one up??

dreamsongs · 5th June 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jazzy Alz

It's 11.30 in the morning here, too early to light one up??

Where down under do you live Jazzy ?

I grew up in Australia ...

Jazzy Alz · 5th June 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by dreamsongs

Where down under do you live Jazzy ?

I grew up in Australia ...

Sunny Brisbane, where did you grow up?

dreamsongs · 5th June 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jazzy Alz

Sunny Brisbane, where did you grow up?

Sydney...Bondi Beach to be exact.

I've been to Surfer's Paradise once as a kid, that's close enough right ?

Jazzy Alz · 5th June 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by dreamsongs

Sydney...Bondi Beach to be exact.

I've been to Surfer's Paradise once as a kid, that's close enough right ?

40min drive from me. Will you return?

dreamsongs · 5th June 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jazzy Alz

40min drive from me. Will you return?

I left back in '79, right after high school. I've been wanting to go back ever since but it's so damn far...

I want to show my kids where I grew up...

Jazzy Alz · 5th June 2006

1979! It has really moved ahead since then. I went to Sydney last year. I think your kids will love it here. Best time to visit is september/october (perfect weather).

dreamsongs · 5th June 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jazzy Alz

1979! It has really moved ahead since then. I went to Sydney last year. I think your kids will love it here. Best time to visit is september/october (perfect weather).

I will have to plan a trip soon. I've been wanting to go for a long time. I'm sure it has changed drastically since the last time I was there...

Nice talking to you Jazzy, I am signing of now cause I'm getting dirty looks from my fiancee...

Chucho · 5th June 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jazzy Alz

Production is everything??? Without the songwriter there is nothing to produce! Creativity is everything. Production is a bonus.

are you hearing creativity when you listen to the charts ?

you must be very easily entertained. song after song is a dead aural experience for me - a noisy miasma filled with cliche upon thick headed cliche
I was recently wondering what happened to all the songwriters cos they sure aint in the charts.

5th June 2006	#62
belairstudio Gear addict Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Rome Posts: 321	C'mon, production alone doesn't make any difference if a song is not strong enough to walk A producer can adjust here and there somebody else's song, but if it ain't got the power it needs to score he can't do much I write and produce. As a producer I can make the differencein making a song shine or ruin it As a writer I can hit it or not. A strong and powerful idea is what I look for, as I said earlier And I agree with the vibe thing. Surely songwrtiting is about collecting emotions in an understandable code __________________ Ciao www.albertolombardi.com www.myspace.com/albertolombardi

5th June 2006	#64
djwayne Lives for gear Join Date: May 2005 Location: United States Posts: 2,475	If you want to learn about hit songs, try being a dj at a live club for about 6 months to a year...people will tell you what they want to hear and what they don't want to hear, and you'll find out there's a lots of songs that you personally may not like, but others do, and you'll also find out that other people may not like what you like. You'll find out what gets the crowd dancing or heading for the door. You'll also find out alot about target margetingand genres, as you'll want to please the crowd you're playing for. Playing country music in a rock club doesn't go over very well, and playing rock for a country crowd likewise doesn't work. You'll become accutely aware of this as the beer bottles start flying. __________________ To hear some of my music, goto iTunes and do a search for djwayne2000.

5th June 2006	#72
dreamsongs Lives for gear Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: FL Posts: 1,542 Thread Starter	I agree with this to some degree... I write songs mostly for commercial release and appeal these days. I have to pay the mortgage ya know ? But, it wasn't always that way. There was a day back in the 80's when I could write and perform anything with my band and be happy. We almost had a major label release with some songs, then we all broke up, creative differences and egos as they say . Another long story that I'll save for another thread... Beware that I never said poor or shit songs. I'm primarily talking about songs with a bit of potential, maybe a catchy hook and cute imaginative lyrics. There are a lot of those songs out there today by talented unsigned songwriters who will never see the light of day. In the meantime, if the artist has a producer/friend/manager/fill in the blank who writes songs, they will do put that song first on an album. The artist will co-write it of course even though he had nothing to do with it and everybody's happy. This has happened to me a couple of years ago with a good song that was on hold and at the last minute they went with some shit album filler that the artist (who is not a writer) supposedly co-wrote with his manager. Yes, it pissed me off something awful since I had other opportunities during that time frame but that's the nature of the beast and the business... Anyway, a good song can be very successful with great production from a talented producer but not a bad song, I want to make that clear... __________________ Dreamsongs BMI Dreamsongs Productions Dreamsongs Publishing BMI Dreamsongs LLC " The dream don't come any closer on it's own, you have to go after it " Me...!

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5th June 2006	#61
Jazzy Alz Gear addict Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Australia aka heaven Posts: 458	Creativity is the key. A good song with average production can still make it big.

5th June 2006	#68
David Brown Gear nut Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 109	Just because there is a Top 40, it doesn't mean that at any given time there are 40 great songs. Ya gotta fill the pipeline... David Brown

5th June 2006	#69
tee boy Gear nut Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Staffs, UK Posts: 135	This is an interesting question, in more ways than one! Personally, I dont think that the average chart buying public pay much attention to production standards. As long as it sounds roughly as they expect, then all is good by them. So imo, not amount of production and engineering can save a poor song. However, what I do find interesting is the fact there are engineers out there that value their role so highly as to suggest otherwise. I guess this is understandable - you spend that much time and energy on something, and let it become such a priority in your life, that you can be forgiven for having a slightly warped perspective on it. Dont get me wrong, Im an engineer myself (of sorts!). And I value as much as anyone the work that goes into making a record sound good. But I highly doubt that anyone outside of the engineering community cares two hoots as long as it 'sounds good'. I mean, I show friends stuff all the time thats been recorded and mix using budget gear, samples, and DAW's. They cant tell the difference between DFH or a real kit, a Pod or a live miced amp, RenEQ or (enter your favorite slut EQ hither). But maybe Im coming at this from the wrong angle... If you mean 'can great production package up a crap song so that it will sit amongst other questionable top 40 releases', then I would probably say yes. This is more to do with the standard of Top 40 music though, than it is about the value of engineering. If everything in the chart was very good musically, then this rule would definately not apply. TB

5th June 2006	#75
lefthando Gear addict Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Kits Beach Posts: 377	If production didn't contribute to a song's hit status, producer's wouldn't get points. Any top-selling artist will try to find the best production team they can get, no matter how good the songs are.