Can you Produce a "Hit Song" ?

[dreamsongs]

Originally Posted by u b k

that was the primary concern i had. so it does indeed appear as though there was a version that people preferred. food for thought: when the police present witnesses with a photo lineup, the unspoken expectation is that the guilty person is in there, and 99.9% of the time the witness either chooses one of the photos, even when they're uncertain, or says "i can't tell." they *never* say "it's none of these guys."

so, is there any chance you'll post, or pm me, with the 3 (unlabeled!) versions of the song we're talking about? i'm kinda dying to hear all 3 and see which i pick. i ask because re-arranging songs is a passion of mine as well, and i have been known to wrestle with the same kinds of uncertainties you've been talking about.

gregoire
del
ubk
.

Hi Gregoire, I just PM'd you...

[C Heat]

Originally Posted by dreamsongs

Hi Gregoire, I just PM'd you...

So what are your conclusions u b k?

I gotta say, dreamsongs that that is a big effort to demo the one song three different ways.

I mean, I guess you gotta sometimes (in this business), but still, that's a lot of time, effort and money. It could get very expensive very quickly having to do this for every song you write (unless you can demo them all yourself).

[JP11]

Post 'em up for us all to hear! Why not? Maybe someone will turn it into a hit.

Some more random thoughts, probably already stated:

You shouldn't even have to make one full demo, other than a simple piano and voice or something. The A&R or producer should be able to fill in the blanks (some probably prefer that).

It's interesting though, how crucial it is who's recording a song, how they do it, when they do it, and who they aim it at.

The Rascal Flatts have just done The Beatles's Revolution, and it's just charted on the country chart, will probably be a big hit.

What's odd about it, is they made it sound like a cheap country throw away, and it even sounds like a sort of redneck red state shit kicker anthem. Don't mess with the constitution you commie anti-American terrorist loving liberal freak!

The song was, of course, questioning the idea of revolution in the time of the Vietnam war, but it has a whole new feeling and meaning done now by them. Pretty awful, too!

The Beatles didn't even really have a hit with it as it was a b-side, and The Stone Temple Pilots did the song a few years ago for charity and got to number 30 on the rock chart.

And it's interesting how many people have recorded Beatle songs verses how many have hits. Rosanne Cash had a number 1 country hit with I Don't Want To Spoil The Party. I would think The Beatles never even considered that one as a single at all. EDIT: whoops, I'm wrong, it was the B-side of Eight Days A Week, which went to number 1, and the B-Side went to number 39.

[dreamsongs]

Originally Posted by C Heat

It could get very expensive very quickly having to do this for every song you write (unless you can demo them all yourself).

Well C Heat, I actually demo all my pop songs myself. I demo the country ones in Nashville since I don't have the feel or instruments for that genre. I play all the instruments except drums. When it comes to drums, I mostly spend a lot of time programming drum sequences, fills etc. That's probably the part I hate the most but it's sometimes half the song. I love playing guitars, synth and bass, I can do that all day.

It took a long time to demo that song in 3 versions and then have to mix them as well but I was curious of the results and I'm glad I did it. It sort of convinced me that you can have success only if you get it right from the moment of conception until the end of the mix.

There are so many decisions to make from the moment you create a song that if you deviate in multiple directions at any of the crucial steps you run the risk of not having the song reach it's true potential.

And like I said, had I just demoed that song in any other version either than "C" I wouldn't have had the song picked up.

The problem since then is that everytime I finish a song I wonder if I did the right version...

[brisvegas]

Originally Posted by JP11

You shouldn't even have to make one full demo, other than a simple piano and voice or something. The A&R or producer should be able to fill in the blanks (some probably prefer that).

A&Rs these days are usually suits with business degrees. They cant HEAR or IMAGINE shit when it comes to music. You have to spell it out for them.

Scenario:
1. A&R hears piano/vocal demo of great ballad.
2. A&R hears full band demo (master quality) of great ballad. It feels and sounds familiar to what he is used to (= hears on radio, or from his signed artists).

Question:
Who does he sign? Hint, it isnt #1...

[dreamsongs]

Originally Posted by JP11

Post 'em up for us all to hear! Why not? Maybe someone will turn it into a hit.

Hi JP11, I can't really do that sorry...

That song is no longer mine and it's in the Publisher's hands. There's a paragraph in the contract that forbids me from playing the song in public in any medium or over the internet.

I can post unpublished material if I want, but once I assign it to a Publisher, it's no longer mine and I have to abide by the contract. I'm sure you guys understand.

I go to NY at least twice a year so if I hook up with Ubk there, he can listen to my material and that wouldn't be a problem. Then we can start a new thread...

I'm glad you love the Beatles too, I'm a bigtime fanatic. We should have a Beatles trivia thread and I'm sure we'd be right up there battling to see who knows more...

[dreamsongs]

Originally Posted by JP11

You shouldn't even have to make one full demo, other than a simple piano and voice or something. The A&R or producer should be able to fill in the blanks (some probably prefer that).

Oh yeah, I wanted to address this too...

I've done both in my time and in many trips. I've found that when it comes to my music, I don't want to leave anything to chance. And what I mean is that many times I'll present a song with just guitar/piano and vocal and the guy just doesn't hear it. Even if it's a very good song.

Trust me when I tell you (and I will try to put it carefully) that a lot of these guys are morons. I always leave the room wondering how the hell they got the job. Not all of them of course, some of them are knowlegeable and even helpful but for the most part you better hand them a finished product otherwise they can't put it together.

The reason I know this is beacause 2 of my Publishers have worked with big names and I've heard some early demos from artists where you can't even imagine in your wildest dreams how the song will turn out. I mean, you listen to the song and you don't hear the "potential hit" in it.

You have to be pretty good at it and doing it for a long time to spot a "potential hit" from a raw demo. Not everybody has that talent and that's why I give them the best rendition that I can.

And that brings me right back to the purpose of this thread. When you walk into that room you better have gotten it right...

[JP11]

Originally Posted by brisvegas

A&Rs these days are usually suits with business degrees. They cant HEAR or IMAGINE shit when it comes to music. You have to spell it out for them.

Scenario:
1. A&R hears piano/vocal demo of great ballad.
2. A&R hears full band demo (master quality) of great ballad. It feels and sounds familiar to what he is used to (= hears on radio, or from his signed artists).

Question:
Who does he sign? Hint, it isnt #1...

Right, that's what I was getting at. I think in your scenario, though, you should make the full band demo a crap(pier) song. It will probably still get picked over the great one.

[JP11]

Originally Posted by dreamsongs

Trust me when I tell you (and I will try to put it carefully) that a lot of these guys are morons.

And that brings me right back to the purpose of this thread. When you walk into that room you better have gotten it right...

No doubt!