Automation... ahem ... Automation

[initialsBB]

Gain plugins can help if you want to keep your automation untouched but just change the level of one track.

But also, how much bussing are you doing? If you organize everything into busses you'll have another fader that you can automate.

[joeq]

One thing I try to do when mixing is postpone the automation as long as possible. Do it dead last. This usually means less updating for me. I know people who do the opposite though...

In pro tools, I usually just select the automation line in the edit window and trim it down with the trim tool. This keeps all the ups and downs proportional. If there is a compressor on the track, I am not above using the makeup gain as a trimmer. I'd rather not mess with a gain plug if I don't have to. It seems crazy to me to have more than one SET of volume automation data. The track is the volume that the track is! I keep hearing about people who end up automating both the gain plug and the fader!


Doesn't Logic have 'clip volume'? you could use that to get your 'general' levels in place. How about getting a controller? Some programs have a "write to start/end" feature. You adjust a fader, and when you hit stop, the new level of the fader is put for the whole song.

[kalle74]

Originally Posted by ayskura

I set the level in a part of a song for example, then automate the changes of volume. the I need some more headroom and pull down all faders and ... automation get in the way.

Sounds like you are too far into yellow and red to start with, and don't have enough headroom as it is...

Peak your meters at yellow when recording and during processing. This way you'll have more headroom through the process. Bump up the volume at mastering stage.

Yellow is the new red.

[fastlanestoner]

I automate the hell out of everything. It's how you make the song breathe. Automating pans in choruses and volumes throughout the song constantly. I don't really get too much into automating plugins but for some pitchy singers I'll automate the reverb and/or delay send volume up a little to compensate for a slip-up.

I'm also a big proponent of automating the lead vocal to really make it sit right. For some bands that want a more CLA kind of sound I'll squash the vocal and automate dynamics back into it. Works like a charm!

[Unclenny]

Originally Posted by joeq

In pro tools, I usually just select the automation line in the edit window and trim it down with the trim tool.

Me too.

I start automating as soon as things get tracked and I'm usually still automating just before mastering.

Originally Posted by fastlanestoner

It's how you make the song breathe.

It may seem like a lot of work, but once you develop your work methods you can move right along. It just makes such a difference.......

[Kiwi]

I love automation. But I don't like recording fader moves. I love to simply draw nodes and edit the numbers if necessary (mainly using Cubase). For a simple gain change between verse and chorus it should be as easy as drawing four dots on a line and tweaking the numbers - choosing whether to ramp up or change instantly. If working to a grid you can be completely anal and align the nodes perfectly to the grid, and set the gain to an exact dB number. Or not. It's all easy.

I recommend using busses/groups and folders if they get too messy. I like to automate the major fixes in the original dry track - removing unwanted noises and breaths and de-essing etc. From there you can send it to a new buss/group. I believe in automating gross level changes before hitting the first compressor plugin, so I need one level of automation before the compressor, and then another for the final level. And further automation for FX sends and EQ, panning and whatever else ...

Maybe I just have ADHD, but I hate boring static mixes ...

[deft_bonz]

You have different choices:

-) Lower the output of the last plugin
-) Insert the gain plugin
-) route to a buss

Like someone else stated, try to mix at lower levels. I mix all my tracks at -12 dBFS. The only exception are tracks that need to be very low. They can be easily at -30dBFS

So I never need to get more headroom. My mixes end up between -10 to -6 dBFS

[Unclenny]

Well....there are lots of creative reasons to automate other than just a bump in volume.

Just for fun I pulled up a screenshot of the two guitars that are driving my most recent project. This is a first run automation shot where I used detailed volume automation to attenuate the attack of the fingerpicked acoustic guitar (both guitars really) instead of leaving that job to the compressor.

I also used this time to make creative decisions regarding who gets to play when.



As for vocals......I like to carefully pull down those very few (really hardly any) places where my voice wavers briefly from pure excellence. Makes a huge difference.

In my opinion, these creative moves can help bring up mix up a few notches from the ordinary.

[deft_bonz]

Originally Posted by cyberlurker

I have never in my entire life needed to automate the volume.... I set the volume for a track and let it stay the same from start to finish. A vocal or an instrument which all of a sudden gets louder in the mix just sounds weird to me.

Seems your singers sing flatter than flat The more dynamic the more automation (vocal riding) is needed, so the voice can still be perfectly mixed in a dense arrangement. Compression alone won't do it.

Never thought that e.g. a shaker alone with e.g. a voice is too loud, where during the rest of the song (where it plays along everything) just sits fine?

[psycho_monkey]

Originally Posted by cyberlurker

I have never in my entire life needed to automate the volume.... I set the volume for a track and let it stay the same from start to finish. A vocal or an instrument which all of a sudden gets louder in the mix just sounds weird to me.

I'd imagine that once you learn how, your mixing will take one of those big leaps forward that occasionally happen.

If you notice a "big leap" you're doing it wrong.

[benherron.rrr]

I get the Op's problem, I hate spending time automating the volume on a track and then wanting to raise the overall level of that track in the mix later down the line. I should probably have an in depth read of the Pro Tools manual, but it seems so unnecessarily difficult to keep the automation the same while upping the overall level, I also hate how Pro Tools writes automation on all parameters when doing a pass, if I want to do a simple fader ride it also creates an automation line for the panning, meaning that I have to go along the automation lane deleting all the automation points so that I can pan dynamically.

Automation is such a great tool, but I must admit that I try to avoid using it because it gives me more headaches than it should.

[mati]

ok, you can wether select all your automation of the track with the "automation select tool" or press "alt,hold it and draw the first automation point. all the following automation goes with it up or down... cheers

[audiogeek]

Why don't you just highlight the audio that you want turned up/down, and use the trim tool (when looking at volume info) to adjust the automation? You'll probably have to adjust your head/tail point, but this preserves all the automation moves you already made.

Or use the Volume Trim parameter.

Or adjust the output of the last inserted plugin, if you have any in place.

There's really a lot of ways to skin this cat... so what's the issue exactly?

[krheatman]

The great thing about processing in place with Cubase,is you can highlight regions and process them with any tool or plugin.Sometimes I favor using this before automation that way I have already made permanent the more obvious fixes.

Sent from my PC36100 using Gearslutz App

[joeq]

Originally Posted by audiogeek

Why don't you just highlight the audio that you want turned up/down, and use the trim tool (when looking at volume info) to adjust the automation? You'll probably have to adjust your head/tail point...

if you add an extra break point at the head and the tail it all comes down without bending.

[electraluxx]

I use this for fader automation Sonalksis Ltd.

Actually, I automate the mixer faders in Logic and use the FreeG to adjust for volume after automating. Usually, the automation is fine relative to itself but I need to make adjustments with track relative to the entire mix. Free and helpful plugin.

[audiogeek]

Originally Posted by cyberlurker

Actually, a multiband compressor is what I've been using for years, and I've been doing just fine... Maybe it has to do with different styles of music, I don't know. But what exactly is a compressor if not an automatic volume adjuster? It seems to do just the same thing but with less required work. How did people mix tracks back in the days before automation?

Back in the days, the precursor to automation was called 'all hands on deck'. Literally. Of course, there weren't too many faders (linear or rotary) to deal with, but you would often need to use all of your fingers at once, and usually have a few assistants helping you out for complicated moves.

Comps were/are good for instantaneous and momentary level compression, catching peaks, etc... and of course the more contemporary trend of squashing it to all hell.

If you want to maintain any semblance of realistic dynamic range, while still maintaining some amount of control, compressors should not be used as an 'automatic volume adjuster'. Either use some light compression to catch those incidental peaks and be at the mercy of the performer's dynamic control, or use automation for actual 'volume adjustments' as needed.

Smashing it in a compressor or limiter isn't really allowing for any 'volume adjustment'; in fact, quite the opposite. No adjusting needed because it'll all be one level.

There was an earlier comment about not liking automation because 'I don't like it when things are all of a sudden louder'. That doesn't have to be how one automates - in fact, quite the opposite is true. I usually will use automation where particularly delicate and subtle changes are needed, over a longer period of time than a compressor can do... Like fading vocals slightly into/out of a chorus or bridge section.

Not to say what you are doing is wrong... if it works for you, that's fine, more power to you. Just be aware of what you're doing. There is no automatic silver bullet solution for anything in audio, and that goes doubly true for compression as 'volume control'.

[LimpyLoo]

Automate everything.

/thread, innit?

[theblue1]

Originally Posted by cyberlurker

I have never in my entire life needed to automate the volume.... I set the volume for a track and let it stay the same from start to finish. A vocal or an instrument which all of a sudden gets louder in the mix just sounds weird to me.

I more often find myself using automation to even things up, not to make them less even. Still, very small changes in dynamics from section to section can help give added momentum and shape to a track by allowing subtle tension build and release.

For instance, if there's a vocal from a vocalist with less than ideal technique, I'll use automation to make up for their lack of proper mic technqiue and then let some carefully set vocal compression smooth things up from there.

My DAW uses a combination of track trim, track automation, clip trim, clip automation, as well as separate clip fx, and also offers the ability to select a whole automation rubber band at once (with all nodes selected) so that you can move it up or down as needed.

[deft_bonz]

Originally Posted by cyberlurker

Actually, a multiband compressor is what I've been using for years, and I've been doing just fine... Maybe it has to do with different styles of music, I don't know. But what exactly is a compressor if not an automatic volume adjuster? It seems to do just the same thing but with less required work. How did people mix tracks back in the days before automation?

There are instruments, when played e.g. one octave higher, they sound "louder" in the mix, although they aren't actually. You can not catch that with compression. In my EDM the arrangement changes very often, so it happens e.g. the congas play alone with the bass. The congas can stick out too much in this case, volume automation is needed.

During mixdown I listen to each track from the beginning to the end at least once. Concentrating on just that one track and try to get the feel and evolution for it during the whole song. Every track has its own flow in a mix. In one part it has to be within the mix, in another part it may have to stick out.

[ionian]

I use Sonar which has an "offset" value for each track. After I make all my automation, if I decide the track should be 10dB lower, I just set the offset to -10 for that track and it keeps all the automation and everything the same, it just lowers the volume by 10 dB. I don't have to adjust anything.

Sonar's a sh*t daw so I can't imagine that this feature is some mega-feature that only Sonar has. Ayskura - what Daw are you using? Surely there must be a similar feature in yours.

Regards,
Frank

[Jerrick]

In Cubase I just shrink the view so that the whole song fits within my monitor, open the automation of the track, highlight all the dots, then adjust the volume. Im sure there are other ways, but that works quick and easy for me.

[synthoid]

This problem happens in every DAW I know of (Logic, Live, PT). The annoying thing about adjusting overall balance using an inserted gain plug or the makeup gain of the final compressor or whatever is that you aren't using the mixer (faders) to do the balancing. What I do is leave the track faders un-automated always, and use an inserted gain plug or some other gain control in the track (like an audio effect rack gain control, in Live, or a utility plug) for the automation. The way I figure it, it's a waste of the track faders to automate them, because once automated they're no longer useful as faders...

-synthoid

[audiogeek]

Originally Posted by synthoid

This problem happens in every DAW I know of (Logic, Live, PT). The annoying thing about adjusting overall balance using an inserted gain plug or the makeup gain of the final compressor or whatever is that you aren't using the mixer (faders) to do the balancing. What I do is leave the track faders un-automated always, and use an inserted gain plug or some other gain control in the track (like an audio effect rack gain control, in Live, or a utility plug) for the automation. The way I figure it, it's a waste of the track faders to automate them, because once automated they're no longer useful as faders...

-synthoid

Hey that's a pretty good idea. That way you can still pull down a fader in a hurry if need be, and still have your automation moves saved in there. I'll have to try that next time.

[teo]

I'm reading this thread and wondering what is wrong with the old and trusted method of start mixing, get sounds, and at some point start automating?
The way you would mix on an SSL, so to speak...

[Wayne]

Originally Posted by cyberlurker

I have never in my entire life needed to automate the volume.... I set the volume for a track and let it stay the same from start to finish. A vocal or an instrument which all of a sudden gets louder in the mix just sounds weird to me.

That's.. to me bizarre.
But it's not like you'd do a move to make it sound wrong'. Rather not limiting yourself to a static mix.
I'd guess static' applies in maybe 10-20% of my tracks.
I'll note/include here too that maybe 50% of my automation is a first pass of 'edit/clean-up/leveling in pre-fader automation layer before even getting to compression, or locking in fader or buss moves.

[initialsBB]

Originally Posted by synthoid

What I do is leave the track faders un-automated always, and use an inserted gain plug or some other gain control in the track (like an audio effect rack gain control, in Live, or a utility plug) for the automation.

I never thought of it, but that's a pretty great idea. Then you can just turn off the plugin to toggle the automation on and off, or even have multiple plugins on the track to store multiple automation performances and then automate those on and off in different sections. The only downside then is that you don't get the visual overview of what's happening with all of your faders as they automate.

[mattg082]

I gain stage everything and try to get the best mix first. I do cheat a little and use waves bass automation plug. But I usually wait till the end. Usually snare and vocals get automated most of the time...vocals because there vocals and snare to create more movement, build up and distinguish different parts

[s.d.finley]

You guys really need to get a touch sensitive DAW controller. Automation and any on the fly adjustments of said automation is chimp simple, at least for this chimp in PT!