Automation... ahem ... Automation

[jasonwagner]

The day I decided, phuk it and just automate anything that needs it was a great day for my mixes. I was trying to not automate certain things, bass for example for some reason, I have no idea why.

If it needs to be automated, do it, it will make the song much better.

Automation shouldn't be a drag if you know your DAW well enough. In Logic it's a complete and total breeze, very quick and easy.

I do gain stage everything so headroom is never a problem, automation is all about making the song move, making part changes better, it's really one of the most fun parts of mixing.

We in the digital world have it very, very easy. I have be told stories of lots of folks in the control room, rehearsing their fader/pan moves to get the song printed.

[theblue1]

Originally Posted by initialsBB

I never thought of it, but that's a pretty great idea. Then you can just turn off the plugin to toggle the automation on and off, or even have multiple plugins on the track to store multiple automation performances and then automate those on and off in different sections. The only downside then is that you don't get the visual overview of what's happening with all of your faders as they automate.

I like that multiple/alternate gain automations concept by automating a gain plug. (And my DAW allows one to view any or all [gets nasty] automation curves superimposed on the track space, so there's even that.)

[brockorama]

I don't see a "problem" at all, actually. Whatever floats it for ya is what I say. There is no right or wrong. That said, with my own vocals riding the fader before compression is a necessity. My mic technique is not stellar, and I tend to have dynamics poking out everywhere. For me it helps the smoothness of the entire production.

[RARStudios]

Did I just read that someone never automates? What the ...

[joeq]

Originally Posted by theblue1

I like that multiple/alternate gain automations concept by automating a gain plug.

But why do you like that?

I can almost see the gain plug thing as a way of avoiding automating the fader. But to automate both???

That seems to me to be the very type of thing I am trying to avoid when automating.

While I love having automation, (for the results) I don't love dealing with it (PITA), so I try to get my mix as stabilized as possible and do automation dead last. I would rather use the Trim Mode in the mixer, or select the data in the Edit window than to add another entire layer of automation - which after all still has to be dealt with.

(And my DAW allows one to view any or all [gets nasty] automation curves superimposed on the track space, so there's even that.)

you say "gets nasty" as if you secretly enjoy it!

[synthoid]

I've accidentally automated track volume in a couple different spots on the same track (i.e., gain plug and also compressor output level) and I found it to be a nightmare. It takes longer to unwind from it than it does to print the automation in the first place. When you have multiple automations on the same thing, you sometimes find yourself pulling one of them way down (or up) and still hear the wrong thing coming out, haha. (I realize this isn't what initialsBB was describing; he's talking about alternate automations for the same track, like automation takes.)

Originally Posted by s.d.finley

You guys really need to get a touch sensitive DAW controller. Automation and any on the fly adjustments of said automation is chimp simple, at least for this chimp in PT!

right, but controllers don't solve the problem of lifting the whole automation track up by .5dB for example. They're great for locally touching up the automation.

-synthoid

[synthoid]

Originally Posted by cyberlurker

I think the problem is that some people here seem to *think* they *must* use it. That's what I was trying to express...

Lots of folks think they *must* do something when the bass player plays one note way too loud or the singer steps slightly back from the mic. Typically the tracks you capture are not dead-level from the get-go. That's before you ever get to stuff like, you know, saving the song from dying in the second verse from lack of energy.

-synthoid

[synthoid]

Originally Posted by cyberlurker

I would edit the audio directly and/or use a compressor if that ever happened.

haha. if that ever happened. yew ain't from around here are yew?

-synthoid

[teo]

I don't mean to be rude here, but you don't do this professionally, right?

[joeq]

Originally Posted by synthoid

right, but controllers don't solve the problem of lifting the whole automation track up by .5dB for example. They're great for locally touching up the automation.

-synthoid

If your DAW supports Trim Mode you can do this with the fader.

[s.d.finley]

Originally Posted by synthoid

right, but controllers don't solve the problem of lifting the whole automation track up by .5dB for example. They're great for locally touching up the automation.

-synthoid

I enable touch automation, (all on C/24) hit play, grab the fader for the track in question and boost +.5 db, hit the " write automation to end" button and walla! I don't even need to play the song all the way thru. Or just do it with the mouse. End result is the same with a few clicks, almost.

[synthoid]

Originally Posted by s.d.finley

... hit the " write automation to end" button and walla! ... Or just do it with the mouse. End result is the same with a few clicks, almost.

that's cheating, haha, the write-automation-to-end button is doing the hard part.

Seriously though, that's great but it's not the same as being able to balance the tracks using the track faders without futzing with the automation. It's better to be able to simply move the track fader up by .5dB. IMO.

-synthoid

[s.d.finley]

If I need to make minor automation adjustments, but not the same level adjustments on one or many tracks, I just enable touch automation on all tracks and make the minor adjustments as needed. On the fly of course. Or just jump to the part that needs the fix and roll. Mutes too! I have grown use to this method. Less futzin around with the mouse. I do much more automation now, but not every track. I like being able to write multiple types of automation data across multiple tracks all at the same time.

[joeq]

Originally Posted by synthoid

that's cheating, haha, the write-automation-to-end button is doing the hard part.

Seriously though, that's great but it's not the same as being able to balance the tracks using the track faders without futzing with the automation. It's better to be able to simply move the track fader up by .5dB. IMO.

which you can do with the track fader in trim mode. It snaps to "0" (a relative-to-the-trim zero) and you push it up by .5 dB.

No gain plugs, no second set of automation data. It's exactly what everyone is 'asking for' here. Does your DAW not have it?

[don4777]

I have tried several DAWs but spend most of my time in Sonar (now at X1d - but these features have been around for several versions). They have the noraml Track automation but in addition you have several other built in ways to change gain even after automation.

First, there is clip automation. I usually use this initially to take care of any special gain change requirements. For example, noisy breaths, rattling papers, dogs barking, etc.

Then I usually use the Track Automation for "normal" automation of track balancing and fader riding.

If I need to change a track or several tracks after normal Track Automation, there is offset mode. As the name would suggest this provides an offset to normal settings (volume, etc.).

And then there is Trim which can be used but this has the side effect of changing the behaviour of any plugins that are dependent on a threshold. The trim can also be automated.

And if that isn't enough there is always the method of sending the tracks you want to change to a bus and us the fader/trim/gain automation/etc. there. You can also move the entire track or clip automation envelope up or down if you want. LOTS and LOTS of options.

The Clip Automation and Offset Mode are very nice features that come in handy when the situation calls for it.

Don

[initialsBB]

Originally Posted by joeq

which you can do with the track fader in trim mode. It snaps to "0" (a relative-to-the-trim zero) and you push it up by .5 dB.

No gain plugs, no second set of automation data. It's exactly what everyone is 'asking for' here. Does your DAW not have it?

I use ableton live which has horrible and primitive automation. I like it for other reasons, so I put up with it, but any hacky tricks that can help work around the limitations are useful.

[kennybro]

Originally Posted by fastlanestoner

I automate the hell out of everything.

Me too. I use it for de-essing and pop filtering, instead of comp/limit, to tame shrill or boom, etc... many problems can be addressed with volume auto. I mean... it's there. Why not use it? It's just another tool.

[Unclenny]

Originally Posted by kennybro

It's just another tool.

Yeah, but this tool makes me feel like I actually did something creative in the mix rather than letting the compressors have all the fun.

[Syncamorea]

I love automation and use it as needed. I avoid plugs and automation when initially getting to know the tracks and the mix, then I go into automation slut mode and dig the results.

I even automate my toaster and lava lamp.

[LimpyLoo]

Originally Posted by Unclenny

Yeah, but this tool makes me feel like I actually did something creative in the mix rather than letting the compressors have all the fun.

[joeq]

Originally Posted by Syncamorea

I even automate my toaster and lava lamp.

I automate the power strip that the lava lamp is plugged into and then also automate the lava lamp brightness control.

[initialsBB]

Originally Posted by joeq

I automate the power strip that the lava lamp is plugged into and then also automate the lava lamp brightness control.

LOL. I have to admit, there have been times that I have turned a bunch of stuff on and off at once from the power strip but also selectively turned off individual devices on the same strip with their own switch.

[taturana]

and here i am mixing 10 tv programs in a week... imagine doing that without automation...

[BillSimpkins]

One of the first things I do when I import the track files into the DAW is drop all the track faders 6-10 db. I usually decide early on what instrument everything is mixed around, so the overall headroom doesn't change much. Al my tracks and busses go through final stem busses, which never have any plugins or automation on them, so I can just pull all these down a little. Sometimes, I'll pull down the master fader to get more headroom(this works in protools).

[bitmob]

Originally Posted by taturana

and here i am mixing 10 tv programs in a week... imagine doing that without automation...

That will give you some chops! Work in television or radio promos for a little while and you won't think twice about automation. If you know your hotkeys and use the smart tool in PT it won't take you more than a few seconds to make an adjustment.

[teo]

Originally Posted by cyberlurker

That is pretty insulting yeah, and I don't see how that's of any relevance.
[...]
Or why it would make me less "professional".

Chill out, I was trying to understand where you're coming from, because I've never seen a pro mixer (including A-list guys) who doesn't automate the hell out of mixes. On all sort of music, from orchestral stuff to heavy metal.
You might want to consider that you are missing a major part of mixing.

Whether you are a professional or not is determined by the fact that you earn your living engineering or not. Still did not answer that. Not that it means anything about your skills as a mixer.

[teo]

Originally Posted by joeq

I automate the power strip that the lava lamp is plugged into and then also automate the lava lamp brightness control.

You mean that you don't go the extra mile and call the guys down at the power station and ask them to "trim it down a little" if you need a third level of automation?
You might want to reconsider your commitment to the craft...

[RARStudios]

Teo,
Let the them lazies be lazy.

[joeq]

Originally Posted by teo

You mean that you don't go the extra mile and call the guys down at the power station and ask them to "trim it down a little" if you need a third level of automation?
You might want to reconsider your commitment to the craft...

every time I do that the other studios in my part of town start threatening me

[taturana]

Originally Posted by bitmob

That will give you some chops! Work in television or radio promos for a little while and you won't think twice about automation. If you know your hotkeys and use the smart tool in PT it won't take you more than a few seconds to make an adjustment.

i know... i've done so many of those mixes for tv/film that the subjects i could not run away from, after a certain amount of chop development, are mix controllers and tendinitis... e