Jack Joseph Puig treatment of the midrange

[Providence]

Also looking for some of you guys recommendations for treating the midrange.

[Glassindo]

Treat it with respect.


Seriousy.

[Providence]

Originally Posted by Glassindo

Treat it with respect.


Seriousy.

OMG............ Thanks?

[Glassindo]

Missing the point? Don't cut the life outta your mixes...mid range is where the heavy dudes live...esp low mids...treat it with respect...dig?

[Providence]

Originally Posted by Glassindo

Missing the point? Don't cut the life outta your mixes...mid range is where the heavy dudes live...esp low mids...treat it with respect...dig?

Awesome. I "dig". But I'm kinda wanting more of a discussion here. Any techniques you recommend for balancing/giving everything it's space/not cutting out your mids?

Do you eq? Take away eq? Compress? Limit? Gate? Filter? Add effects? Ect.....?

[Mr.Greenwood]

I think there could be some more digging and respecting going on here. I hope you can respect that. Dig?

Dig.

[fastlanestoner]

The midrange is what separates the men from the boys, and it is pandora's box to ask for "specific" techniques.

It's based on source material, options, and user talent. JJP is awesome.

[Slikjmuzik]

I would like to know how some of you regard or disregard your room with how it affects your decisions as to what frequencies are important to keep, lay into, cut out, or enhance. Do any of the frequencies you choose to boost on certain instruments or sources mean you're automatically cutting. If you tend to be a 3k booster for a particular instrument, what other instrument are you careful with so they don't 'rub' against each other in the mix?

I think these are the kinds of these the OP was asking for. I love posting about things that I feel I have a decent amount of experience in. However, as of right now, I'm kinda one of those that treats the whole mix as an entity and just makes sure there is balance and cohesion. Hoping to gain some insight in an effort to add another tool that will help my craft.

Please advise...you midrage pros!!

[Glassindo]

3k is high end to me...I find that making room with eq leaves one of the elements lacking...I cut if there is a problem only. Just my thing anyway. Not sure you are gonna figure out how JJP teats midrange unless you are assisting his mix sessions.

[Glassindo]

Originally Posted by Mr.Greenwood

I think there could be some more digging and respecting going on here. I hope you can respect that. Dig?

No, I don't actually know what you are talking about.

[Glassindo]

Originally Posted by Providence

Do you eq? Take away eq? Compress? Limit? Gate? Filter? Add effects? Ect.....?

Yes.

[uncle muscles]

Mid range is about two things, balance and perspective. Less about feel and more about what you think and perceive. There are many ways to approach it, frequency dependent compression being one of them.

[uncle muscles]

Really in my opinion it all boils down to coming at it with a fully rested set of ears or mind. And if i cant wait that long, I'll take a short break and do everything I can to create and listen to contrasting perspectives to get my head out of a comfortable loop and back in the game. I would assume that's one of the reasons why auratones are so popular

[henge]

Originally Posted by Providence

I know a lot of your guys have seen the interviews with JJP where he talks about the importance of treating the midrange. I've only found a few threads on this but nothing in depth. Does anyone have any ideas how JJP actually treats his midrange? I'm not really looking for what gear is used so much as the techniques. Please be very specific.

Maybe study JJP's midrange. Seriously.
Listen to the mixes you love by JJP and spend some time
doing some critical listening.

[Unclenny]

I have been tracking and mixing in small rooms for many years now. I have found that the low mids (200-400) are crucial to getting something that is listenable.

I go through a channel strip and I have the LPF always engaged as well as a gentle cut around 250. But the above cautionary advise rings true. This is where the music lives in many ways.

I also cut frequently in the 1.5 range.

[jonathan jetter]

Originally Posted by Providence

Awesome. I "dig". But I'm kinda wanting more of a discussion here. Any techniques you recommend for balancing/giving everything it's space/not cutting out your mids?

Do you eq? Take away eq? Compress? Limit? Gate? Filter? Add effects? Ect.....?

all of those. none of those.

me personally...i just slowly and steadily learn to listen better.

god knows i've only taken the first few steps. every 6 months i look back at my previous work and it's all like "why the hell did i do that?".

i do mostly the same stuff (mic selection, placement, EQ/compressor choices, etc) that i did 4 years ago. but my tracks sound a whole lot better now. its just about understanding sound at a deeper level, and making better decisions. and working with better musicians, and all just learning from each other.

lifestyle choices make a huge difference for me, too- sticking to a diet of high-quality, "real" food plus moderating the drinking has made it so that 6 hours sleep is actually enough. and i don't get tired halfway through a day anymore.

hopefully 4 years from now i'll have made as much progress as i have the last 4.

edit: specific to JJP's work, i believe he's into serious multing/parallel processing, moreso than most mixers. not just for compression either.

[joelpatterson]

In an overall way: with music that has vocals (which is pretty much everything, face it) the sound of the voice has to "push out" the limits of the midrange when it's pushy, and retract when it's retracty. This isn't going to happen all on its own-- EVERY instrument has all kinds of midrange as well, but the guitar part or the keyboard part or the tom-tom part won't carry the message of the song the way the voice will-- so I'd say specifically, as all the frequencies are filling up the midrange to the gills, make sure the motion of the vocal is felt, seen, and heard.

[Camera]

I've always thought about it this way. Our ears are most sensitive right around 1-3k. To have something sound forward and present, those frequencies need to be clear and strong in the instrument that needs to be forward in the mix.

But they can get very fatiguing if they are not supported by other elements in the mix that don't need those frequencies as much.

Many sounds have a natural place they like to sit. Without even Eqing, I get my balances using the natural sound of the instrument. For example, if the mix is sounding harsh, I'll push up more low end instruments for support.

[jonathan jetter]

Originally Posted by Camera

I've always thought about it this way. Our ears are most sensitive right around 1-3k. To have something sound forward and present, those frequencies need to be clear and strong in the instrument that needs to be forward in the mix.

the converse is sort of true, too, though-

when we hear louder sound (which we equate as "bigger" sound)....the frequency response of our ears flattens out quite a bit.

pushing 2k/3k makes a sound be heard objectively louder, but also makes it feel *less* big.

[Camera]

Originally Posted by jonathan jetter

the converse is sort of true, too, though-

when we hear louder sound (which we equate as "bigger" sound)....the frequency response of our ears flattens out quite a bit.

pushing 2k/3k makes a sound be heard objectively louder, but also makes it feel *less* big.

Yes, I agree. That's why I use the other instruments to support that range, and make the mix sound more full.

Focusing on just the voice, I make sure there is a clarity in the 3k range, but I will also help it out with some 200-400 depending on the singer. I view this as pushing the are of the fundamentals of the note, depending on the singer and where they sit. (that is if the vocal was not recorded like I would want it. I mix a lot more than I record. I used to record a lot in the 90s)

If it's a super high tenor voice, I'll make sure the bass or whatever similar instrument is up there just as loud as the voice to give it support.

[Companda]

JJP treats his midrange differently from song to song. He's not talking about specific treatments, methods etc. he talks about how important getting the midrange right is. To different people this means different methods. For those who haven't seen the pensado's place interview he refers to his midrange quite specifically as 600 - 5k.

That's his focus. Brauer's focus is on multi bus compression, others it's 2 bus comping. Bear in mind all of these people have refined their techniques over many years and what works for one might not work for the other.

[Providence]

Originally Posted by Companda

For those who haven't seen the pensado's place interview he refers to his midrange quite specifically as 600 - 5k.

Actually he say it's 600-3.7k

[energizer bunny]

Originally Posted by Glassindo

Missing the point? Don't cut the life outta your mixes...mid range is where the heavy dudes live...esp low mids...treat it with respect...dig?

Originally Posted by Providence

Awesome. I "dig". But I'm kinda wanting more of a discussion here. Any techniques you recommend for balancing/giving everything it's space/not cutting out your mids?

Do you eq? Take away eq? Compress? Limit? Gate? Filter? Add effects? Ect.....?

Originally Posted by Mr.Greenwood

I think there could be some more digging and respecting going on here. I hope you can respect that. Dig?

Dig.

What's the problem with some of you guys here. Just because your on the almighty Gearsluts doesnt mean you have to be sh*t to each other. Did you ever realise how ridiculous you sound. All big chest out.

[Slikjmuzik]

For me, low end 200hz and below. I tend to cut a lot in the 200hz range before I get into low mids from 200-500hz. My midrange, at least to my ears, in my room, is 500hz-3k. 3k-6 or 7k is my upper mids, and my high end is generally 7 or 8k and above. I think labelling and giving reasoning why may help some approach things. I know I tend to like 1.2k and 5k on guitars, but I also love balancing 100hz on a pulteq into it. Depending on how much I boost, I can actually bring down the fader, which brings down a bunch of other frequencies as well, leaving room for other instruments to fit in. These are the things I love toying with, but I want more ideas of what I can do to balance the snare, guitars, vocals together to keep meat in the mix but keep the space and depth....anyone?

[Empty Planet]

To the OP, I get you. Most of us have been there. But it is, unfortunately, an impossible question. Slikjmuzik took a noble stab at it above, but it also illustrates the problem. The "handling" of any one midrange of a tune is not just about a few important general rules, it's actually hundreds and hundreds of little tiny decisions based on the particular qualities of the tune, the material you're working with, the direction you're taking it. And you make those decisions based on your experience, which involves not just those general principles, which might apply to the tune you're working on, but the memory of every dark, pointless mix path you've ever taken that ended up being a bad idea. Which wind up being good in the end because you learned something from them.

The only thing I might venture to say is that JJP talked about the midrange because people get wrapped up in the power of the lows and the "bright lights" of the highs, and yeah they're cool and important, but for a lot of music, maybe even most (possibly not all), those things are really just an accent, ornamentation, to what's going on in the middle. It's the whole mix philosophy behind NS10s and Auratones. It translates to: Don't get distracted by the flash. Focus on where things really live.

But really. Impossible question. Sorry to say. But don't quit it! Stick with it!! You're bound to get it!!


Cheers.

[AllBread]

Best thing you can do to start figuring it out (in my opinion) is have a dedicated set of monitors that focus on the midrange (like NS-10's) and don't have as much low end extension. Then listen to favorite mixes and try to match them on those monitors. Repeat 1-10 thousand times and it will start to become second nature.

I hope so at least, as I'm in the same boat. I must of had some traumatic experience in my childhood while a 250hz sine wave was playing because I tend to scoop that way too much on every track and then my mixes come out with the ol' smiley face curve on them.

[Slikjmuzik]

Originally Posted by Empty Planet

To the OP, I get you. Most of us have been there. But it is, unfortunately, an impossible question. Slikjmuzik took a noble stab at it above, but it also illustrates the problem. The "handling" of any one midrange of a tune is not just about a few important general rules, it's actually hundreds and hundreds of little tiny decisions based on the particular qualities of the tune, the material you're working with, the direction you're taking it. And you make those decisions based on your experience, which involves not just those general principles, which might apply to the tune you're working on, but the memory of every dark, pointless mix path you've ever taken that ended up being a bad idea. Which wind up being good in the end because you learned something from them.

The only thing I might venture to say is that JJP talked about the midrange because people get wrapped up in the power of the lows and the "bright lights" of the highs, and yeah they're cool and important, but for a lot of music, maybe even most (possibly not all), those things are really just an accent, ornamentation, to what's going on in the middle. It's the whole mix philosophy behind NS10s and Auratones. It translates to: Don't get distracted by the flash. Focus on where things really live.

But really. Impossible question. Sorry to say. But don't quit it! Stick with it!! You're bound to get it!!


Cheers.

Yes, this is very true and very important to udnerstand and realize. A couple tips here and there are really not going to get anyone owning the midrange on every mix. I'd like to think my tracking skills, my choices with regard to the gear I've acquired and my room during tracking, all get me closer to the final product without having to go nuts 'figuring it out' on every mix. Getting as much right as possible up front has helped tremendously in ways I can't even describe.

[maverickrenegade]

A useful exercise might be to have a good play around with what you've got:

If you're EQing, don't forget the power of volume. So many people get the level set and then cut the crap out of the material. Try heavily boosting stuff then turning the volume down to see what it does to your mix. An example is: For me, I get enough crack of the toms through the overheads so I crank the bass on the direct tom mics and turn them down so you really feel the bass 'weight'. (I know it's not midrange bu the same technique applies..

Don't try and make instruments do the job they're not meant for; a chug guitar doesn't probably need a massive high mid boost. If you're missing those frequencies, something else that naturally occupies those frequencies should be there instead. Then maybe you can even take those frequencies out of the chug guitar to make space for the other instrument etc etc...

Try to plan what space everything is going to occupy and don't be afraid to be brutal with the processing. It's not how it sounds separately, but how it all sounds together..

[Jim Keaney @ Devotion Recording]

To "treat the midrange"? ...???... To end the show??!!