considering * gulp* a PC for Ableton/programing duties

[cajonezzz]

I've been a die hard mac guy, and will remain that way for the most part,that being the platform I've been raised on since the 80's.

I have however noticed pretty extreme performance differences in PC's with some software- my wifes little VAIO SMOKES my powerbook in simple web surfing, streaming video etc.

Honestly though, price is a huge issue- I'd like to put together a mobile based computer to run Ableton Live/ guru/ stylus with an 8 ch interface, to tackle drum programing duties. I've been thinking I'd rack up a mac mini, add a screen and bluetooth mouse and keyboard etc- but I'm thinking maybe a cheaper solution would be to invest in a PC laptop and be done with it. I'd dedicate it to music apps only, and keep it in the top of a flight/live gig case-

any input, suggestions or make and models to look for?

cz

[gsilbers]

just watch out with da frakin audio card the drivers etc. u saud u r getting an 8 ch interface so seems that ull be ok.

i a a mac fan myself and when i changed to pc i encountered a lot of issues with asio drivers and crappy audio cards.

u can only have one audio stream running not like core audio in mac u can have many aplicacions at the same time.

also, using ableton live to track is kinda risky, try getting cubase or nuendo. that feel more like logic. hmm go for pro tools with digi 002.

[Crandall1]

You can have many audio streams simultaneously, provided they're all ASIO, and the software doesn't over-ride. (Nuendo/Cubase can release the ASIO driver; not sure about Live.)

But that said, he's right. Do not scrimp on the audio card, and do some research as to what the best drivers are out there. I use both PCs and Macs in my studio, and I must say that the Intel Macs can hold their own, but software support for Intel is still a little spotty. Obviously, there's no real comparision, power-wise, between a high-end PPC Mac and a high-end well-tuned PC; a good PC is going to just wipe the floor with a PPC Mac _PROVIDED IT IS TUNED._ If it isn't, and you download every stupid little thing you come across, your PC will quickly become all but unusable.

If I was in your shoes, I would go buy either an RME or Lynx audio solution. Both of these companies have excellent drivers and hardware. RME has many different solutions; Lynx is primarily high-end, of course. Stay _far_ away from the Prosumer stuff (M-Audio in particular), and the Digidesign drivers for Windows are some of the worst you'll ever find. They got their drivers to a state that could generously be called "working" and just stopped.

Another hint is to take the time to learn how to tune your PC for audio. Unless you buy one of the many turnkey audio PCs, you're going to have to do a bit of work to get it to its most stable configuration. Once you've done that, and provided you don't use "warez" or surf the 'net on your PC, it will be fine, and a real workhorse. I have an HP laptop that has done several hundred shows on stage with not one single problem. (running Cubase SX2.) My main Nuendo PC is also trouble-free. Occasionally, badly-coded VSTs will bring it down, but that's the same for any system.

[macr0w]

[QUOTE=Crandall1]
the Digidesign drivers for Windows are some of the worst you'll ever find. They got their drivers to a state that could generously be called "working" and just stopped.[QUOTE]
I've been running a 001 and a 002R on windows for about 4 years and it has been rock solid. I don't see a problem.

[Crandall1]

I have so little desire to get in an extended conversation about this, I have a hard time putting it in words. You've obviously got more experience with Digi hardware than I do, but I'll say these two things, which I know to be true:

1) You can't put your computer to sleep when an Mbox is plugged in to it. This is obviously fairly important for a mobile solution (as he mentioned in the beginning of the thread.)

2) Using anything but PT with Digi hardware kind of blows, and I'm sure even die-hard PT users would admit to that.

The PT/Digi combo is unbeatable for a computer sitting in a studio, used as a tape deck, that never turns off and never goes anywhere. If any of those things is not true, Digi hardware is a royal PITA.

That said, he said he's looking for a mobil solution running Ableton Live. Can you think of an earthly reason he should pay the premium and use an Mbox/001/002? Sorry, but I sure as hell can't.

[macr0w]

I didn't say he should buy an mbox or any other digi product. I only said I have never had any problems with my hardware or my AMD powered pc's. They run like a champ and have given me no grief at all.

[chd]

the only thing is to make sure that you have windows xp2 with sp2 (service pack2) installed on your future laptop...it will run just fine even if you dont tune it (which basically gives you only marginal improvement in perfromance)...get the latest drivers though for your audio interface AND graphics card (in win screen build up gets prioritised over other threads such as audio or network access etc.)...processor clock speed doesn't matter that much as long as it is a pentium IV...make sure you have enough RAM thats far more important (min. would be 512 but 1Gig is strongly advised)...also dont take one with a huge HD...write/read access speed count with audio so a smaller drive will often be faster with audio apps...tuning to gain performance is not really necessary but maybe disabling a couple of unnecessary win gadgets is in place ....read about those here -> http://www.musicxp.net/about_xp.php...the most important thing is really to DISABLE system sounds in windows -> control panel > sounds and audio devices > sounds(tab) > sound scheme = no sounds...system sounds that get triggered by system events like mouse clicks/startup/errors etc can give u glitches when recording or at playback...and last but not least...DO NOT install any 'system enhancing' apps like those for RAM management and such. That's basically is it.

[cajonezzz]

Thanks- this laptop would be a dedicated music machine. No web, no nothing else. Just stripped and lean and always parked in the top of a small road case. \

anyone actually running Ableton on there laptop PC? My powerbook is a dog...

I'd be looking at the RME fireface 400 probably BTW.


cz

[MDM]

And what about the Mabooks?

they got good specs .... and easy on the wallet too ...

[Crandall1]

Originally Posted by MDM

And what about the Mabooks?

they got good specs .... and easy on the wallet too ...

I agree with that. Too soon to say. I've got an Intel iMac, and it is trouble-free and quite fast. I've been a Mac user since 1985 and a PC user since 1996. I prefer the Mac user experience, but use PCs in my studio because, well, they're generally better if you know what you're doing. (Being ecumenical has its advantages; I can never be accused of not seeing both sides of the platform wars!)

However, these Intel Macs are nice pieces of work. I'm getting a MacBook next week, I think, as my iBook (which I'm typing this very post on) is on its last legs. I'll report here if I have any problems. For Audio Damage, I have to run every host available, of course, and load them heavily, so I'll know quickly if it has any struggles. I will say, for the record, that my Intel iMac isn't near as fast as my Athlon64 PC (no real surprise there) but it is far faster than a dual G4. Like, _way_ faster.

[cajonezzz]

Originally Posted by Crandall1

but it is far faster than a dual G4. Like, _way_ faster.

Yeah, I'm seriously considering building this around either a mac mini Intel duo, or a 17inch imac- if I can figure out a way to rack it "mixer top case style", that would seem to be the best bang for the buck. I'd only need to add a shelf for a keyboard and mouse. Then other perk is being able to drive a second screen and the built in isight. That seems to be the way to go at this point.

I've resigned myself to not blow any money on a powerbook for at least a year, or when I just can't get anything done on my 1.25 powerbook.

Crandall- what music apps are you running on your imac?

cz

[Crandall1]

Well, because of Audio Damage, I have to have all of them, basically. If you didn't guess from my earlier posts, I'm violently anti-Digidesign, mostly due to our rather foul experience with that company on a b2b basis. I also should point out that my main studio computer is a PC running Nuendo. I only use music software on the Mac for testing purposes.

So, my answers can be to questions like "what works best" or "what opens fastest" or "what doesn't crash" or "what can stomach badly coded AudioUnits" or whatever. I can't answer any questions about workflow. I used to be a hardcore Logic user, and as far as bang for the buck goes, on the Mac platform, Logic can't be beat. It does have some things that I find supremely annoying (e.g. why the hell don't the track mute in the arrange window and the track mute in the mixer window talk to each other?) but on the whole it is a stable and robust program.

Live is great, of course. Except for the fact that everything you record in it sounds like it has all the peaks scraped off. If you're okay with that, it's a fun program, and great for doodling.

There aren't a lot of other choices for "pro" level software on the Intel Mac plaform right now. Nuendo/Cubase is a ways off. Plogue Bidule is more for sound design, and is not a sequencer, to speak of. Metro is kind of old-school. It reminds me of Master Tracks Pro or something. Garage Band is a stupid little toy for children and bored office workers.

There is, of course, PT. Whatever.

[T.RayBullard]

Why not ask in the computer forum??Youd get more hits..

Originally Posted by cajonezzz

I've been a die hard mac guy, and will remain that way for the most part,that being the platform I've been raised on since the 80's.

I have however noticed pretty extreme performance differences in PC's with some software- my wifes little VAIO SMOKES my powerbook in simple web surfing, streaming video etc.

Honestly though, price is a huge issue- I'd like to put together a mobile based computer to run Ableton Live/ guru/ stylus with an 8 ch interface, to tackle drum programing duties. I've been thinking I'd rack up a mac mini, add a screen and bluetooth mouse and keyboard etc- but I'm thinking maybe a cheaper solution would be to invest in a PC laptop and be done with it. I'd dedicate it to music apps only, and keep it in the top of a flight/live gig case-

any input, suggestions or make and models to look for?

cz

[AdamJay]

why not dual boot XP and OSX with BootCamp on the MacBook you are getting?

my g/f does that with her intel iMac and its working great so far.

also the intel macs smoke the PPC macs in Ableton. and i am not exaggerating.