Console sound, the real deal

[jensenmann]

Originally Posted by AllAboutTone

I would not call this a console to be tracking in the studio.

Whatever works, mate.... There´s no rule which forbids the use of a ZED428 in a controlroom. IMHO it´s better to use anything for recording than not to record because it might not be highest end.

During the last year I did a bunch of live recordings with the ZED428 of which one is already released and a second one is currently being mastered for a release. The artists did not complain at all about what desk I´ve been using.

[Cadde]

Hallelujah ,

no vehicle to bring a mci 416b from 72`with me to the console party.

BUT

i´m highly interested !

Steht der Termin am 26.August schon fest ?

geile Idee !

Cadde / Hamburg

[jensenmann]

Date is firm. We seem to have several contributors coming from your area. If you´re seriously willing to bring your desk then I will try to arrange transport. Drop me a pm if you´re interested.

[jensenmann]

first post edited again
it seems that we get press in, our member MrVelvet who writes for a german proaudio mag offered to join us and write about this event.

[Agzilla]

What a crazy event, nice one man.. look forward to reading about this and maybe watching some footage?

Wish you had a Trident Trimix in there...


Good work.. keep it up..

Zz.

[NEWTON IN ORBIT]

Originally Posted by jensenmann

Whatever works, mate.... There´s no rule which forbids the use of a ZED428 in a controlroom. IMHO it´s better to use anything for recording than not to record because it might not be highest end.

Yes!

allabout tone, you have a Harrison or two right?

Funny thing is, whether the ZED does or doesn't sound good to your ears, I bet the zed beats my console and your console in the specs department on paper, so, who's to say what should and shouldn't be in the test?

At least it's hardware right? We know how much you like plugins

Shoot, I say do as many consoles as time and logistics permit.

Who cares budget console or not.

Any D&R, DDA, or Ameks being tested?

One budget console I am curious about lately, is the Alesis X2 also.

I recently heard a DAMN fine mix done on one. I had forgotten about those things.


john

[jensenmann]

My Amek M2500 will unfortunately not work upto that happening, too much other work to do. We have a TAC Scorpion though, which is highly modified. I´m very curious what people will say about that one, because Scorpions always get beaten up here at GS for some (if any) reason.
Our TAC 16/8 is on my bench at the mo´, hoping to get the rats out of it until next month.

[thenoodle]

I'm too far from Germany, but if I were allowed to make a suggestion, it would be that you only test with real voices or drums etc. That is... zero.. zero electronic samples, machines, electronic keyboards etc.

Imo, it's only with real analog sources tracked/tested via mics.... like voices, real drums, real acoustic guitars, real standup basses, real brass players, real string players ...that you can do an adequate comparison. At least, that's the way I personally listen to what a console has to offer.

And then mix those if possible to check out a final non-effects result..... just using the sound of the room as it was during tracking or during the mic capture.

I'm personally never going to listen to a demo of anything ever again that uses a drum loop or screaming synth. Waste of time. I just turn it off.

[jensenmann]

Thanks for your suggestions. I have a bunch of multitrack recordings with bands out of different genres as well as a vocal ensemble recorded with various stereomiking techniques simultaneously to 24 track. That´s the sources I use for my classes. They should work for this test. Of course they contain drumloops and synths, too, but these are used in the context of a real band, real drums, bass guitars, guitars, vocals, horns, B3, Rhodes and such.

[teo]

Sounds like a great idea!
I won't be able to be there, but I do have a suggestion.
I would mix the song ITB, with a simple mix setup, and would spread that out to the desks with channels flat and faders at 0. Just to have a closed to finished sound to judge...

[jensenmann]

Another bump to raise awareness. 3 1/2 weeks to go

[Karloff70]

Originally Posted by teo

Sounds like a great idea!
I won't be able to be there, but I do have a suggestion.
I would mix the song ITB, with a simple mix setup, and would spread that out to the desks with channels flat and faders at 0. Just to have a closed to finished sound to judge...

That sounds like a good idea. But then also do at least a 'cold' and 'warm' pass per console if not 3 different levels, so we can hear what they do when you 'lay into it' a little bit level wise. This is where the nice ones will start to do cool things and the others fold......if you were nearer London I might have brought my modded Raindirk Concord....would have been interesting to see how it stacks up. .

[jensenmann]

It´s IMHO difficult to compare sound when levels are very different from desk to desk. But maybe we can figure something out.

@teo: we use HD24s as sources, no chance to premix ITB. Distributing signals from a computer into 5 desks at the same time would be a major PITA. In fact I could do that but I doubt that any differences are audible between desks when too much electronics and transformers are between source and desk. But I have a few tracks from live-recordings on our HD24s which were recorded pre-EQed. That might work they way you suggested.

[Karloff70]

Originally Posted by jensenmann

It´s IMHO difficult to compare sound when levels are very different from desk to desk. But maybe we can figure something out.

Sure. Only alluding to the fact that running signal through a load of desks at very civilised levels will only tell so much though.......whether if you lay into them it becomes a fair comparison is debatable, but for my mind the outcome of such behaviour whether comparable fairly or not would be a large part of the interest in this. Running softly is one thing, but whether it blooms or folds when you push a little is where it gets interesting....to me.

[Fletcher]

Originally Posted by jensenmann

We have these consoles:
Midas Pro4, Venice
Allen Heath Mix Wizzard, ZED 428
Ramsa WR-S840
Yamaha PM3000, 01V, MG14something
ADT Audio 5MT C Series
Soundcraft K1, Series-Two, 200, Spirit Folio, 324 live
TAC Scorpion (highly modded), TAC 16/8/2 (24channel version)
Yamaha 01/V + additional converters

Edit: additional consoles that will be brought in:
Soundcraft Series 1
Audient ASP4816
Acousta P100 (maybe P200)
Lawo MC2 56 (!)
Neumann (custom desk)
Digico SD9

The Soundcraft Series 1 and the Neumann are about the only real consoles you have in this group... the rest of them are reasonable bar room level sound reinforcement desks... and a couple are cheap crap [with the exception of the digital desks... which are only desks in terms of function].

I hope you have some fun doing this... but seriously, don't expect any earth shattering conclusions to be reached.

Peace

[jensenmann]

Of course ADT consoles are crap, Lawo makes boystoys, Midas Pro4 desks are famous for bar room sound and you know how the world of audio works.
Fletcher, please take my excuses that I´m doing something and not only talk about it.

[jensenmann]

first post edited for location and schedule

[nashkato]

maan ! 7 hour drive ! no way to make this happen.
@ Jens Siefert : if by any chance you could bring in both the P100 and the P200 i´d be very interested in how they compare.
imo these are quite different desks.
in my never ending wisdom i sold my 10channel P100 , but still got the 24/8 P200 which is in the progress of recapping .

looking forward to the results which hopefully will be presented here ?

[Scott003]

These are mostly "bar room" desks, but it'll be interesting nonetheless. Haha no love for the audient fletch?

[Capashitor]

Thats's some elitist "bar room" desks then.

[Scott003]

Originally Posted by RighteousBasturd

I would barely call these consoles man. This is pointless.


Edit" i see you have a digico...that's a good console...but not a recording console...this is still pointless.

well sure, but they still sum audio, so why not test it? Plus seems like it'd be a good bull session no matter what. If only I had the moneys to go experience this (and could speak more than English ha)

[Erik Thomas]

Cant wait to hear the results jensenmann.. btw dont let the geara slutz get you down...a good engineer can get good sound from any of those boards, provided that they are in proper working order. Good on you for actually trying some things here and organizing a get together. I cant get there from LA but say hello to my relatives over in the old country.

[Czybulski]

Cool shit!
But you already have a Scorpion there, so (luckily!) there is no need for me taking this heavy piece of tank down to Baden-Baden!
All I could further add is a Mackie VLZ Pro, don't know if this would be worth the effort.

[jensenmann]

It´d be cool to hear an original state Scorpion compared to mine (which is heavily modded)

[Czybulski]

Originally Posted by jensenmann

It´d be cool to hear an original state Scorpion compared to mine (which is heavily modded)

(*damn!*) ..
Ours is a TAC Scorpion II, and has been recapped recently. It has a couple of channels that have been upgraded with the "Langley" Line Input Kit.
We'd also be in for some modding tips and tricks, so I guess we should just pack the monster into the trunk and come down see you guys..

[jensenmann]

[fnninns]

My first opinion was that it would be nice if you guys had a few more "serious" desks.
Then again, full on recording consoles are going to be difficult to amass in one place.

I won't go as far as FLETCHER, but there only three, four or maybe consoles that I would consider doing a "pro" recording mix with.
BTW... I have spent MANY hours behind most of these desks except for the Neumann, the Lawo and the Audient.
Not a DigiCo SD9, but a SD7... only so-so (crappy FX) and a giant P.I.T.A. to run.

[simonhorn]

Hey guys,

For those interested in checking out the Audient ASP4816 at the Baden Baden event next week here's a little taster:

ASP4816 main features overview - YouTube

Looking forward to the event, see you all there!

[jensenmann]

We have an A&H iLive coming. First post edited.

[Czybulski]

Dang! I just realized that I had been confused about the date. I thought it was 26th of August, not July. Not sure if I can get away in the middle of week..