Comparing ADAM A77X to A7X to P11a to (haha) Mackie HR824
sloper
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#1
17th April 2012
Old 17th April 2012
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Comparing ADAM A77X to A7X to P11a to (haha) Mackie HR824

Today we went a little crazy. My intern has a set of A7X's. I have the A77x's, P11's, and the Mackie HR824's. So today we shot them all out. This is based entirely on our opinions listening to a wide range of music including commercial mixes covering many genre's and personal mixes that have translated very well elsewhere. We were extremely familiar with all of the tracks we chose. The room is treated fairly well. The A77Xs are newer but were floor models so they have been broken in slightly. I'll try to keep this short...

At low volumes (speaking level)

A77X's won this category. Very easy to mix on and sound great. Midrange is very clear. I've worked on these for a few days and i rarely find myself turning them up. Where as with the Mackies the volume would always creep up. I like this very much. In fact all of these speakers are decent at low volume except the Mackies. Even still, with the P11s I am always reaching for the volume knob without thinking about it. They need a lot of level to get the bass going. The catch is they don't sound better loud. They are just so unforgiving that I subconsciously turn the mix up so I can make it sound better with volume!

At normal mixing levels ~ 80-90db

A7's and P11's win this category unless you are fitting the kick and bass together. The A77X's are unblelievable in the low end. So clear and so easy to judge the weight of the mix. However when making slight eq adjustments in the 800hz to 3k range it was much easier to detect these changes on all of the other speakers. The P11's being the most revealing, then the A7X's, then the Mackies (Although i wouldn't call them accurate in this range). It's not to say this range isn't well represented in the A77X's or that it doesn't sound good, it's just not as revealing. If i had to pick one set to mix the midrage it would be a toss up between the P11's and the A7X's. The A7X's just sound amazing to me (especially at this volume) but i understand the P11's so well. The P11's are an unforgiving speaker when you've got it all wrong. You don't show clients mixes on these unless you've nailed them. A7X's are still very revealing but in a nicer way. A set of each would be nice. Man are they different...

At stupid loud levels. (We did these with breaks and for short bursts)

It's hard to make any decisions at this level. The Adam A77X's don't need to be very loud to get a very good picture of the lowest octaves so if you crank them up this loud you're doing it to impress someone or to have some fun. They sound AWESOME though! The Mackie's in comparison are also exciting but they hurt the ears a little compared to the A77X at similar volume. The low end on the A77X's is much more complete than the Mackie's. The A7X's also sound great at high volumes but sort of fall apart. Hard to describe. You'll get the most information out of the A77X's or A7X's at this level. Even though the Mackie's go lower than the A7X's the bass is very undefined to me and i can't make good decisions on them. P11's don't like to be turned up loud. They sound good enough, but this is definitely not their strong suit.

My overall impression of the A77X's is good. They are fun to listen to, my current clients love the sound of them, but they are maybe a little forgiving in the mid range. However since they excel so well at low volume this does not bother me. If you buy these I would strongly recommend using them with another smaller monitor like the NS10 or KH120 which i think would suite these very well. If i could only have one pair i would choose the A7X. If i could choose two it would be the A77X and the P11a. They are a killer combo and I feel you could easily make all of your mix decisions on these with confidence. Also a side note about the Mackie's, they are great for mixing heavy rock guitar. For some reason i find it so easy to place in the mackies.

I hope this helps a few people out. No go try them all out if you can.
#2
23rd April 2012
Old 23rd April 2012
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Did you put speaker A right (B left) or vice versa?
sloper
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#3
25th April 2012
Old 25th April 2012
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I tried them in all configurations and so far the best for me is vertically, speaker A on the Left, ports facing in.

Also after working on them for a while I am very happy with how they've been translating. Clients are excited by the sound and they are not tiresome to work on in the least. I find myself rarely switching to my P11's.

What sort of placement did you go with for your A77X's? Same as the S4X's?
#4
27th April 2012
Old 27th April 2012
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You have them placed vertically? I still have to try out different placements. Right now i have A on the right.
sloper
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#5
17th May 2012
Old 17th May 2012
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Well, it's been a month since getting these speakers and I have recorded an entire album on them and mixed the first 2 tracks. Folky rock with some electronica mixed in...

These speakers have changed the way that i work. I rarely switch to my p11's anymore and when i do the mix is always dead on. Bass is perfect every time i go out to the car, and the mixes translate everywhere. I find myself making a lot of different decisions when i record now too. I now have a different opinion of a few of my mics, and I feel that I understand my equipment a little better. I also rarely have to turn them up which is great on the ears and good for long days. For anyone mixing full time do yourself a favour and upgrade your speakers. I could just kick myself for waiting so long...

I'll post some mixes when I'm done the record. I recorded this current band last year on nearly identical gear. The biggest difference is the speakers so it should be interesting to hear the different decisions that were made.
#6
21st May 2012
Old 21st May 2012
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Adam a77x

Quote:
Originally Posted by sloper View Post
Well, it's been a month since getting these speakers and I have recorded an entire album on them and mixed the first 2 tracks. Folky rock with some electronica mixed in...

These speakers have changed the way that i work. I rarely switch to my p11's anymore and when i do the mix is always dead on. Bass is perfect every time i go out to the car, and the mixes translate everywhere. I find myself making a lot of different decisions when i record now too. I now have a different opinion of a few of my mics, and I feel that I understand my equipment a little better. I also rarely have to turn them up which is great on the ears and good for long days. For anyone mixing full time do yourself a favour and upgrade your speakers. I could just kick myself for waiting so long...

I'll post some mixes when I'm done the record. I recorded this current band last year on nearly identical gear. The biggest difference is the speakers so it should be interesting to hear the different decisions that were made.


I'm going to pull the plug on the Adam A77X when i wake up monday morning 5-21-2012. Was going for the Event Opals or RCF Mytho 8 but going to give the A77X a go.



denlig
sloper
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#7
21st May 2012
Old 21st May 2012
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One negative thing i will add to my rave review is that the speakers are a little flattering. I think this is what others refer to as vibey... When I'm mixing i'll quickly throw on my p11's and laugh and think "keep going..." Something like an NS10 would compliment these very well. I wrote above that I rarely use my P11's anymore which is true, but to be fair they are still a valuable tool. So while I feel comfortable now making almost all of my decisions on these new speakers, I still need another set for a quick reality check every so often. One place you'll notice this is the midrange around 2k-3k. Problems in this range are not as glaringly obvious as my p11's. The nice thing is that when you put up a mix you're not rifling through the midrange right off the bat so that you can get on with your day. Now my mindset is, "I know it's there, but it's not hurting my ears so i'll get to it later". I feel like I'm getting to the end of the learning curve though.

I'm sure others would like to hear your review when you get your hands on them. When they came out I thought there would be a bit more of a bang about them. I waiting for months for Sound on sound to do a review before deciding to say F*** it and give them a try.

I should also add that if you're mainly producing or recording that these would be a no brainer. If you're mainly mixing I would have a second set. If your just mastering I would look up the line a little.
#8
3rd June 2012
Old 3rd June 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sloper View Post
One negative thing i will add to my rave review is that the speakers are a little flattering.

I should also add that if you're mainly producing or recording that these would be a no brainer. If you're mainly mixing I would have a second set. If your just mastering I would look up the line a little.

just found your review.. nice one.. but by what i understand, I might be better off just getting a sub10 with my P11´s.... i just love their sound.. had quite a few people who wanted to buy them off me but then i always think.. with what i am going to replace them... i love the P33.... lets see... thanks again
sloper
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#9
3rd June 2012
Old 3rd June 2012
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I tried 2 different subs with my P11's but after trying both for a week i found that placing the bass and kick wasn't any easier with or without them. Before i did this review I worked on the A77X's and the P11's with sub 10 for a short time and decided the A77X's were much easier to mix on. You won't need a sub for any genre with the A77X's and working on lower mid heavy instruments like toms is a lot easier than on the p11's which i think are not very accurate in the low mid.

I'm depending less and less on my p11's every day which I love to death. If you have the money take the plunge you won't regret it. Adding a sub to the p11's did make them more fun to listen to though!

Good luck!
#10
15th February 2013
Old 15th February 2013
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Sloper,I have a question for you.My room is 14 X 10 feet.Do you think A77x will work ok?They are suited for nearfield or midfield work?I will be at 3 feet distance to them.Do you think they could work or I should buy A7x or A8x?
sloper
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#11
16th February 2013
Old 16th February 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klapaucius View Post
Sloper,I have a question for you.My room is 14 X 10 feet.Do you think A77x will work ok?They are suited for nearfield or midfield work?I will be at 3 feet distance to them.Do you think they could work or I should buy A7x or A8x?
My room is only a little larger and my mixes translate very well. I feel like the A7X is also a very good choice and I would be happy working on them, but the A77X's make mixing the 40-80hz range a lot easier. It was an adjustment for sure. I wasn't used to spending this much time on the lower octaves, and now when I high pass I make better decisions.

Is there any way you can take both sets home? If money is an issue I don't think you would be disspointed in the A7X.
#12
16th February 2013
Old 16th February 2013
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Lives for gear
Its been a while now since I changed to a smaller (smaller than a bedroom) room and the p11a's default setting was too much.

Finally tweaked the gain settings yesterday, ended up decreasing the input and tweeter level all the way down.

The "stress" and the extended midrange feeling is decreased. I guess I'll be using the headphones a little more often but listening music with these monitors are a real joy right now
#13
16th February 2013
Old 16th February 2013
  #13
Quote:
Originally Posted by klapaucius View Post
Sloper,I have a question for you.My room is 14 X 10 feet.Do you think A77x will work ok?They are suited for nearfield or midfield work?I will be at 3 feet distance to them.Do you think they could work or I should buy A7x or A8x?
If you go for the A77X's you have to consider their size, you could end up 4 foot away depending on how they are placed.
Adam Audio states that they can be placed vertically without the need to rotate the tweeter by 90' degrees but for me they sound more natural horizontally.

I would choose the A77X's over the A7X if you like to listen very loud once in a while. The A8X would probably have too much bass for your room.
Even though the A77X's have two whoofers pumping out low frequencies they are more controlled than the A8X, which make them more compatible for your space.
#14
16th February 2013
Old 16th February 2013
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Sloper,I need to hear the frequencies under 40 hz that's why I only consider A77x and A8x.Do you think that A7x can be suitable for that?

So,I need you to be more specific.Can you mix on A77x at 3 feet distance?


Thank you very much,TekBot.I will place the A77x horizontally.Do you think I can mix on them at 3 feet?My options are: Dynaudio BM6a Mk2,Adam A77x or A8x.Do you know something about Dyns?
rez
#15
16th February 2013
Old 16th February 2013
  #15
rez
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klapaucius View Post
...I need to hear the frequencies under 40 hz that's why I only consider A77x and A8x...

...I will place the A77x horizontally.Do you think I can mix on them at 3 feet?...
if you need really need to hear frequencies below 40hz (!) then you´ll need to use a sub anyways.

the a77x play really clean down to 38hz and i can hear stuff down to 28-25 cycles on them, but not clear enough to judge it. so i check with headphones and in other rooms or in the club to see if the subbass is right.

it should be possible to use the a77x at 3 feet, but they are almost 2 feet wide and 1 foot deep so if you place them in a triangle there would be very little space for a computer monitor in the middle. also is there a wall in the room behind the speakers and can you angle them at all?

the a77x are great monitors. we use them in conjuncton with ns10 and compare also with yamaha msp-7 and genelec 8040. we choose them for our room over a8x because the bass was almost the same (a little more subbass in the a8x but more kickbass in the a77x) but the midrange is better on the a77x with the smaller, faster speakers that are sharing the load.

peace, rez
#16
16th February 2013
Old 16th February 2013
  #16
Quote:
Originally Posted by klapaucius View Post
Do you think I can mix on them at 3 feet?My options are: Dynaudio BM6a Mk2,Adam A77x or A8x.Do you know something about Dyns?
Quoting from the Sound & Recording Magazine Review: " a good alignment of the monitors and a greater listening distance are recommended. "

I guess the best thing is to test them in your studio and decide ,coz if you send an e-mail to Adam Audio they will surely convince you that 3 feet is perfectly fine. goof


I haven't heard the Dyns but i had the A7X / A77X in my studio at the same time recently, and i think the A77X is superior for mixing low frequencies , anyway, you are on the right path if you choose either Dyns or Adams.
#17
16th February 2013
Old 16th February 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rez View Post
it should be possible to use the a77x at 3 feet, but they are almost 2 feet wide and 1 foot deep so if you place them in a triangle there would be very little space for a computer monitor in the middle. also is there a wall in the room behind the speakers and can you angle them at all?
Thank you very much rez for your reply.First,I wanna say that I have measured the real distance between me and the monitors and it will be between 3.5 to 3.8 feet.Also,I can angle them.What do you think?This will be ok?

Is the midrange of A8x disastrous?Or is just a little scooped?Will this fact make you struggle at mixing?What do you think?
sloper
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#18
16th February 2013
Old 16th February 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klapaucius View Post
Sloper,I need to hear the frequencies under 40 hz that's why I only consider A77x and A8x.Do you think that A7x can be suitable for that?

So,I need you to be more specific.Can you mix on A77x at 3 feet distance?
If deep bass is your primary concern then the A7X will not cut it for you. Also 3 ft is closer than I would like for mixing on the A77X's. If you can allow for 4ft I think you will enjoy the speaker more.

Hope this helps.
#19
16th February 2013
Old 16th February 2013
  #19
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Ok,enjoying the speaker is one thing,but if he can work at 3.5-3.8 is another thing.I ask you,because I recently bought a pair of 2030's and I returned them primarly because I couldn't mix on them.The distance was the problem.
sloper
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#20
17th February 2013
Old 17th February 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klapaucius View Post
Ok,enjoying the speaker is one thing,but if he can work at 3.5-3.8 is another thing.I ask you,because I recently bought a pair of 2030's and I returned them primarly because I couldn't mix on them.The distance was the problem.

I don't think I can answer this question for you. I tried pushing all of my monitors closer together today and listened at 3ft and I didn't like it. I feel I could work on all of them but i found the smaller sets were preferable at this distance. Tracking at this distance would be hell. In such a tight space you are really limiting yourself. Are you sure you can't squeeze more room into your listening environment? The A77X is far better suited to the near / mid field range.

If I was forced to choose blindly in this situation I would buy the A7X, but I think you really need to get these monitors into your space to see for yourself.
#21
17th February 2013
Old 17th February 2013
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So what's the usual distance between you and your speakers,sloper?
#22
17th February 2013
Old 17th February 2013
  #22
I don't think Adam sell the P11A's any more - I think they are now the A8X model. In any case, I once went to GC Pro with a friend and A/B'd every monitor we could in that price range (B&W's, Dynaudio, Adam 7's (no 7X at that time), and Genelecs , and the P11A's blew them all away. I haven't heard the 8X's yet. The 77X looks to be too large for most of our setups, which are smallish studios.
sloper
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#23
17th February 2013
Old 17th February 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klapaucius View Post
So what's the usual distance between you and your speakers,sloper?
My speakers are 4.5 feet apart. So i try to sit about 4 - 5 feet from them.
#24
17th February 2013
Old 17th February 2013
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Thank you very much for all your info,sloper!
#25
28th February 2013
Old 28th February 2013
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sloper View Post
If deep bass is your primary concern then the A7X will not cut it for you. Also 3 ft is closer than I would like for mixing on the A77X's. If you can allow for 4ft I think you will enjoy the speaker more.

Hope this helps.
RE what do you think of the 77x with bass as a primary concern?
#26
1st March 2013
Old 1st March 2013
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Does someone of users put A77X in a vertical position?

Thanks
sloper
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#27
2nd March 2013
Old 2nd March 2013
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I use mine vertically. I tried them every way possible and that was the best for my room.

musicl, Bass is not an issue. I have no troubles mixing the lowest octaves, and I feel my hpf choices are much better now. Mixes translate very well to bigger systems.
#28
2nd March 2013
Old 2nd March 2013
  #28
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Any experience with the p22A's? They were the bigger brother of the p11A's before adam renewed their range.
rez
#29
2nd March 2013
Old 2nd March 2013
  #29
rez
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@sloper: did you turn the tweeter 90 degrees like suggested by adam when you positioned your a77x vertically?

and which side of the speaker is now at the top and which is on the bottom?

i'm asking because i noticed rather big differences in horizontal and vertical dispersion of those speakers.
so the position of the speakers has big influence on the width of the sweet spot.

peace, rez
#30
2nd March 2013
Old 2nd March 2013
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spotty View Post
Any experience with the p22A's? They were the bigger brother of the p11A's before adam renewed their range.
I had the p22a's + sub 10 before my A77x's.

I found the p22a's to be more fatiguing to work with.

The A77x's are smoother, a bit more hi-fi and I can operate them at lower volumes for longer. Depends what you prefer. I was tired of having to turn my monitors up. I found the p22a's were more revealing in the 3k range, but that's what made them tiring to work with. Both excellent monitors though.
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