Black Lion RME UFX MOD vs Stock RME UFX results

[mcgruff]

Is it April 1st already?

[cavern]

No offence but i find that hard to believe.
When i hear stuff like "night and day" and "this ones a piece of shit",i get a little skeptical.
Glad your liking it though ,i like my un-modded one.

[mcgruff]

Originally Posted by Music Guy36

And I didn't provide any test results on this forum because Im too lazy for that.

Tells us all we need to know doesn't it? It's not difficult to submit files from each of your units to the ultimate converter thread so they can be objectively analysed. I've done it myself.

[cavern]

Im interested in hearing that too.Who knows,i might change my mind.

[Ciozzi]

The Black Lion UFX sounds so much better than in a recent thread with samples recorded with both the stock and the modded unit, more people prefered the stock unit and others thought that overall there wasn't much of a difference between the two, at least not enough to justify modding it.

And in this thread The Ultimate Converter DA/AD Loopback Shootout Thread! you can also see that BLA mods don't improve noise performance either.

[manysounds]

My friend and I are doing a modded vs. unmodded shootout this month coming up. We got a new unit and a modded unit between us. I personally think they both sound good. The stock UFX fully does NOT "sound like shit" at all and the modded one certainly sounds verrrr nice...
So I reserve judgement until I do a shootout myself

We're gonna use a Radial Workhorse to feed both units at the same time. It's the closest we'll get to an equal split without renting a double isolated splitter or something and damnit, good enough for me. (flame on) Many kinds of sources too: violin, stacked metal guitars, sweet voices, bad voices, rock overheads, jazz sitar, I dunno...
We're also going to do it with one unit feeding the other's clock and then reverse that, so as to have some kind of viable clock test/null test also. O and an external clock on both also also. Overkill ftw.

O yeah and we'll post the results which will be sure to spark another GIANT load of crap from everyone.
I'm so excited!

[Sparticos]

Are you clocking the modded UFX with a BLA Micro clock or the Big Ben in the above picture? Or are you running it with the onboard clock?

[rksguit]

Truly depressing,as there is no way in hell,I can afford a "stock" UFX,let alone a modded one

I'm actually pleased with the sound of my USB 1.1 UA25-EX,and with my oc'ed 4.5GHz i7 26k pc,the latency's not even that bad,and of course,I own and use KRK G2 Rockit 5's for god sake,and I'm totally impressed,cause I know-

"Without Ears,a Great Performance,and good balance[that's the ONLY part that's lacking,due to noobitus] any better than what I'm running,don't mean much AT ALL.

Sorry,I had to post,I'm just so bored of the Rich.

[mcgruff]

Originally Posted by Music Guy36

Ok, first off I don't care what people say or believe or put on this post.

Originally Posted by Music Guy36

Actually I could care less what anyone says, this is what I went through though.

Again don't believe anything I'm saying if you don't want to. I could care less.

How to win friends and influence people:

(1) Gush about the performance of audio hardware A v audio hardware B.

(2) Refuse to supply files for objective testing and generally fail to understand the importance of objectivity in evaluating audio (eg the transparency tests, or the blind test thread - neither of which support your claims).

(3) Tell everyone repeatedly that you couldn't care less what they think.

Classy.

[Ciozzi]

Originally Posted by mcgruff

How to win friends and influence people:

(1) Gush about the performance of audio hardware A v audio hardware B.

(2) Refuse to supply files for objective testing and generally fail to understand the importance of objectivity in evaluating audio (eg the transparency tests, or the blind test thread - neither of which support your claims).

(3) Tell everyone repeatedly that you couldn't care less what they think.

Classy.

(4) Ignore that there was another (recent) thread with well recorded samples and double blind tests where people's preference was by far the opposite of the one you have

PS. the thread was deleted but I still have the audio samples if someone wants to take a listen.

[Ciozzi]

Originally Posted by Music Guy36

Yup. Its not what you have its how you use it...That will always be true.

Indeed it's a known fact that preamps and converters sound different depending on who plugs the XLR in.

[beau_mckee]

Originally Posted by mcgruff

How to win friends and influence people:

(1) Gush about the performance of audio hardware A v audio hardware B.

(2) Refuse to supply files for objective testing and generally fail to understand the importance of objectivity in evaluating audio (eg the transparency tests, or the blind test thread - neither of which support your claims).

(3) Tell everyone repeatedly that you couldn't care less what they think.

Classy.

+1 all the way.
All that "trouble and effort" you went through to get both units and you couldn't even set up a test to record it in the space of 20 minutes, but still wrote a short story on how you are convinced it's better. You seem overly hasty on the comparison, not objectively describing differences, and not willing to provide any samples.

[lostwars]

I am pretty sure the mod is not "better" it's just "different".

Yes I have tried both. No I don't care what your opinion is.

This thread is useless without audio clips.

The world is full of fools with an endless budget to spend on their toys. The rest of us want hard evidence and analyzation.

Kids, nowadays if you spend $1000 or more on a digital interface it doesn't matter. They are all pretty much the same. Oh wait this is Gearslutz. What am I saying?

[brrecording]

Why are you so against people giving negative opinions? It is a forum and if people are looking for info then they should get the two sides of the argument and not just the.....this is so much better cos I say so and you have to believe me cos I have great monitors.....

If you want people to believe then post some results, I'll be in the market for a new interface soon and rants like this just turn me off getting the mod as it seems people have to try so hard to justify what they spent.

I have never heard either unit btw but looking in from the outside, your posts would turn me in the other direction.

Pete

[mcgruff]

Originally Posted by Music Guy36

The whole reason why I put things like "I could care less what people think" was to keep people like you (who will never believe and who will never try a mod out anyways) off of this post.

I'm not sure who "people like me" are. I assume you mean people with brains, taste and sophistication. I regret that this offends you but thank you for the compliment. My advice is to try the same thing everybody else does when they want to sidestep rational criticism: start a religion.

[SoSueMe]

One of the many threads where the poster has no clue that the ear and brain is not even close to a direct link. If you don't understand what I'm saying, don't try.

But if it makes him create a better final product, more power to him. That's what matters.

[cavern]

Originally Posted by Music Guy36

I know that 99 percent of top composers, producers and musicians would disagree with this.



Convertors all sound way different and if you can't hear the differences then???

Two more fine lines.
You can see why people including me are skeptical of your claims.
How could you know all this?Do you know all these people?Have you heard all these converters.I have actually heard the opposite from(some) top people in interviews claiming the differences are minor.
You've had this thing one day and your refferencing a lifetime of experience across the board.
You even had time to stack tracks /muti effects/do all these conclusive tests and post all this shit,all in less than a day.
Get real man.

[SoSueMe]

Originally Posted by Music Guy36

"One of the many threads where the poster has no clue that the ear and brain is not even close to a direct link. If you don't understand what I'm saying, don't try. "

This doesn't make sense dude. Anybody with a brain and ears can hear the difference between flat, muddy and harsh(stock), vs. clean, pure, more 3-D and spacial(MOD)

Like I said, if you don't understand then don't try. But let me put it another way:

What you're describing above (flat, muddy, harsh, etc.) is not a direct result of what is coming from your ears: Your eyes, pre-conceived notions, what's in your wallet before and AFTER your purchase, and many other factors, play a role in what you are 'hearing'. This is very hard for most people to come to terms with, even some long-time professionals in the industry, after what they previous believed was proved otherwise by a well-controlled double-blind test.

That said, these perceptions can have a positive impact. For example, if someone feels good about a particular product, it is likely that this will influence how they use it, most likely for the better.

I'm not saying that mod does not sound better; I haven't done a test with it as described above myself.

Just another hater of MODS that will never try one..

See above comment.

[cavern]

Nobody's saying there is no difference with the mod,a lot of people did like the mod better.
Nobody is opposed to the mod either.
Nobody hates the mods.
I have a buddy that's a lot like you,everytime he buys something new,its always waaaaay better and everything else is shit by comparison,and that's after owning it for an hour.
Sometimes,it is better,sometimes not but its rarely waaaay better except for the first few novelty days of ownership.A couple of months later,not so much.
What do you care what we think anyway,your happy right?

[cavern]

Who said you were classless.

[manysounds]

Originally Posted by rksguit

Truly depressing,as there is no way in hell,I can afford a "stock" UFX,let alone a modded one

I'm actually pleased with the sound of my USB 1.1 UA25-EX,and with my oc'ed 4.5GHz i7 26k pc,the latency's not even that bad,and of course,I own and use KRK G2 Rockit 5's for god sake,and I'm totally impressed,cause I know-

"Without Ears,a Great Performance,and good balance[that's the ONLY part that's lacking,due to noobitus] any better than what I'm running,don't mean much AT ALL.

Sorry,I had to post,I'm just so bored of the Rich.

I just sold my UA25ex to a local college student. I LOVED the sound of that unit. 100% totally worth the $$$$. 100%.
Now I have a UFX. I admit I miss the inline comp/limiter from the UA25.

[SoSueMe]

Originally Posted by Ciozzi

Indeed it's a known fact that preamps and converters sound different depending on who plugs the XLR in.

...or the high-end AC cable.

[cavern]

Originally Posted by Music Guy36

Post number 16, yeah I'm gonna call you out.. Is the kind of attitude that attacks my post in a subtle way and makes it personal in a subtle way. Up until that post and the dude after him, it was just about the opinions of gear and not about how I went about presenting it.

I guarantee those are the same dudes that will go hate on every other MoD related post.

This is called Gearslutz. posts doesn't have to be sophisticated , what a cheesy thing to say.

Like i said post 16, no one told you to click on and read this, so what's getting under your skin??( maybe deep down ya need to buy a mod.)

EDIT:
My apology,i though you were referring to my post.

[cavern]

Post 16 wasn't mine.lol

[miscend]

This thread is so full of trolling and flaming it's insane. Id like to think most of us are adults here. Even video game forums like GAF are more mature and more moderate these days.

I haven't learned anything after reading two pages!

[pabloaugustus]

I sent my RME Fireface 800 into black lion for a full mod.

I can't hear any difference in the monitor output.

The preamp differences are negligible.

They don't provide any paperwork with specs of the new components nor do they give you back the replaced parts.

My unit came back with all the pots looking like they got chewed on by a dog.

They haven't explained how that happened but have kindly ordered me replacements.

They seem overwhelmed as a company and they don't have time to answer the many questions one would rationally have when sending a unit that is already a hi end product and cost quite a bit (for the non 1% ers).

I have seen so many posts talking up the MOD and so many "powerusers" list RME modded gear in their sigs.

They sold me on their word clock, which after reading Bob Katz mastering book and studying more about my RME it is actual and factual that my RME cannot be improved by being fed its timing via external crystal word clock.

During recording it could induce jitter which would be problematic but for the RMEs ability to self correct any timing problems.

This is my subjective opinion. The fact that the unit I sent with over $100 in secure packaging could get so damaged in their shop was shocking and indicates disorganization and disfunction within the company.

I understand they mostly focus on their own gear and are overwhelmed, but I would have appreciated a printout at least verifying the performance specs of my unit instead of just taking their word that they did the mod and it passed all their tests.

Its my subjective experience that the MOD was not worth it. If the replacement preamps would have made buying lunchbox style dedicated preamps redundant it would be worth it. But the preamps aren't improved to that degree, IMHO, and the imaging is different but I don't think any aspect of the mod has made my music sound significantly better in the end.

I work mostly in the box, fireface into a beast of a PC by ADK. That company I can highly recommend, especially for their lifetime support and warranty of overclocked setups.

I wish I had before and after files to share, I would just like to dispel the incorrect notion that this is a must have MOD.

I can't comment on how a UFX would sound.

I'm hardly a professional producer however I am confident I have pretty decent ears, have been playing orchestral, jazz, funk, and all styles of music from a very young age on drums and piano. When you are playing timpani and have to count 64 bars of rest for example you get very good at close listening. Both to make sure you come in right and while making constant tuning changes on timps. My career playing jazz drums is mainly based on my ability to play very quietly and listen and interact with the other players.

That may not make my judgement any better with respect to the MOD but I just wanted to provide my background and relate my subjective experience about a topic mostly dominated by fanboys in the forums.

Respectfully,

-Pablo Rotter

[owensands]

Originally Posted by pabloaugustus

I sent my RME Fireface 800 into black lion for a full mod.

I can't hear any difference in the monitor output.

The preamp differences are negligible.

They don't provide any paperwork with specs of the new components nor do they give you back the replaced parts.

My unit came back with all the pots looking like they got chewed on by a dog.

They haven't explained how that happened but have kindly ordered me replacements.

They seem overwhelmed as a company and they don't have time to answer the many questions one would rationally have when sending a unit that is already a hi end product and cost quite a bit (for the non 1% ers).

I have seen so many posts talking up the MOD and so many "powerusers" list RME modded gear in their sigs.

They sold me on their word clock, which after reading Bob Katz mastering book and studying more about my RME it is actual and factual that my RME cannot be improved by being fed its timing via external crystal word clock.

During recording it could induce jitter which would be problematic but for the RMEs ability to self correct any timing problems.

This is my subjective opinion. The fact that the unit I sent with over $100 in secure packaging could get so damaged in their shop was shocking and indicates disorganization and disfunction within the company.

I understand they mostly focus on their own gear and are overwhelmed, but I would have appreciated a printout at least verifying the performance specs of my unit instead of just taking their word that they did the mod and it passed all their tests.

Its my subjective experience that the MOD was not worth it. If the replacement preamps would have made buying lunchbox style dedicated preamps redundant it would be worth it. But the preamps aren't improved to that degree, IMHO, and the imaging is different but I don't think any aspect of the mod has made my music sound significantly better in the end.

I work mostly in the box, fireface into a beast of a PC by ADK. That company I can highly recommend, especially for their lifetime support and warranty of overclocked setups.

I wish I had before and after files to share, I would just like to dispel the incorrect notion that this is a must have MOD.

I can't comment on how a UFX would sound.

I'm hardly a professional producer however I am confident I have pretty decent ears, have been playing orchestral, jazz, funk, and all styles of music from a very young age on drums and piano. When you are playing timpani and have to count 64 bars of rest for example you get very good at close listening. Both to make sure you come in right and while making constant tuning changes on timps. My career playing jazz drums is mainly based on my ability to play very quietly and listen and interact with the other players.

That may not make my judgement any better with respect to the MOD but I just wanted to provide my background and relate my subjective experience about a topic mostly dominated by fanboys in the forums.

Respectfully,

-Pablo Rotter

I got my ufx modded. Its an amazing difference actually.
Amazingly better then it was. Quite frankly I think the stock was ok converters but after this mod they are now amazing. Before the clarity was crap in the low and low mids(very wooly and muddy imo). Also the highs were muffled slightly. Now the stereo field has opened more and the bottom is tight as hell and very detailed with increased clarity across the spectrum.
I am quite happy with it indeed. If you work in the box not sure how you can even tell a difference then.
I run all my mixes out of the box through a dangerous summing box and other outboard stuff so I really use the converters on the UFX to the fullest and they sound incredible after the mod. I got the premium mod with the clock. I can also tell the difference with and without the clock. The clock tightens the clarity and response even more. Its very sublte but it does make it better.

[mcgruff]

This has been objectively tested using audio diff software. I seem to remember that the black lion mod made no difference. It might even have made things worse. Unfortunately the guy who did the testing is no longer around to explain further.