UA Apollo First Look (user review)

[MJB]

My friend, engineer/producer Jay Messina suggested I cut the reverb's very low end, and boost a little around 10k on my verbs, and it really did clean up the overall sound quite nicely. The EMT 140 I heard on Euphorias posts seemed especially sweet to me though.

[The wiz]

The Apollo is the best interface I've ever owned. For the last six years I've been using Digidesign gear, and before that I had Motu interfaces. I did try Apogee but it was not for me.

[Quint]

Originally Posted by Kcatthedog

When the plugs go 64 bit why would anyone not use them ?

Wouldn't they just port the Apollo's console over for 64 bit capability (if it's not already) when the plugs go 64 bit? The 64 bit changeover is still going to be on UAD-2 right?

[Blues Bird]

[MJB]

Good, thanks Whitecat. Now we can get back to enjoying our discussion of the Apollo. I've never been quite happy with the console, and completely forgot to use it when I began my last session. Are you all using it?

[Kcatthedog]

You may recall I have been exploring the implications of the TB card and have been interested in the hooking up to peripherals question.

With the release of the TB card UA site indicates the FW ports become a hub so i emailed them and asked what does this mean and wouldn't it be better to use the TB to FW800 cable and run everything TB ?

Answer from UA below seems to indicate yes.

"you add the Thunderbolt option to the Apollo then the Apollo Firewire 800 ports become a 'hub' for other devices ( as you've quoted ). You can connect the hard drives to the firewire 800 ports on the Apollo. In this scenario you are sharing the firewire bandwidth between the Apollo 'interface' and the 'hard drive' on the same firewire bEus within the Thunderbolt stream.*

The other option would be to connect these Firewire drives to a Thunderbolt->Firewire800 adapter connected to the second port of the Apollo thunderbolt card. In this scenario using the Thunderbolt-> Firewire800 adapter creates a new firewire bus within the Thunderbolt data stream that is separate from the firewire bus assigned to the Apollo interface. This would be the preferred setup as it would provide two separate firewire buses within the same Thunderbolt data stream."

End of ua quote so because the TB bandwidth is so much bigger than FW and is bidirectional it can support two FW 800 busses and transmit at TB speed between apollo and computer ! Nice attribute what other interface does that ? Oh ya the new avid if you have a full HD rig I think ?

The TB/FW800 cables are available from apple store for about 30 bucks i think so one TB cable from computer to apollo , one TB to FW cable to external drive in my case and I can daisy chain my two FW800 drives using the FW csble I already have. There is also A TB to esata cable from lacie I think and more expensive

Looks like this is the best way to manage bandwidth. Not certain about other people's set ups but hope this is helpful ?

Kcat

Kcat

[Kcatthedog]

Originally Posted by Quint

Wouldn't they just port the Apollo's console over for 64 bit capability (if it's not already) when the plugs go 64 bit? The 64 bit changeover is still going to be on UAD-2 right?

Ua comitted to release 64 bit plugs this calender year in a letter from President. Don't think has any bearing on Console as it is just a gui and doesn't actually run the plugs.

If your daw is running 64 bit then you can access more ram so your host cpu and computer can run more efficiently and if your apollo is running on TB i think you have maximixed its operating efficiency.

No reason to think 64 bit plugs would need a different uad 2 card. Should be download, authorise , insert and play, i would think ?

Kcat

[barryjohns]

I've been involved in this forum for too long. This thread is the best thread I can remember, it is full of love for creating music, passion for gear, and respect for fellow enthusiasts! It has also shown my feeling towards moderators here, too many have an agenda, and at times at God like around here. Now, this is not all of them, there are some very cool mods here, but IMHO the bad ones make a bad experience for too many. My 2cents!

[Kcatthedog]

This thread is the best thread I can remember, it is full of love for creating music, passion for gear, and respect for fellow enthusiasts

at least somebody gets it !

kcat

[veggieryan]

we need somebody to give us some detailed reports of the new thunderbolt card... lowest latency possible.. plugin counts.. plugin latency within the daw... etc...

[Kcatthedog]

Originally Posted by veggieryan

we need somebody to give us some detailed reports of the new thunderbolt card... lowest latency possible.. plugin counts.. plugin latency within the daw... etc...

I think they will need to control for sample rate or we need a table at different sample rates

then load in as many instances of something like the Massive Passive or a lex reverb , what ever consumes the most ua processing and see how many instances they get

with TB I presume you will max out your dsp and be no where near bandwidth limitations ?

kcat

[method1]

Originally Posted by veggieryan

we need somebody to give us some detailed reports of the new thunderbolt card... lowest latency possible.. plugin counts.. plugin latency within the daw... etc...

I'm wondering if thunderbolt will address the 2 main gripes I have with the Apollo.
RTL figures aren't great, so for monitoring through amp sims or using VIs it's somewhat lacking.

I suspect this may be more a function of the converter chips than the fw/tb protocol.

Secondly, being able to change to sample rates of 88.2 and above without having to reboot the machine. Maybe thunderbolt can fix that. My metric halo has no problems switching sample rate on the fly, so hopefully UA can sort this one out.

[krheatman]

First came Thunderbolt
Next will be Lightningbolt
Then Neutrinosbolt

Better wait

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk

[cowboycoalminer]

Originally Posted by krheatman

First came Thunderbolt
Next will be Lightningbolt
Then Neutrinosbolt

Better wait

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk

[method1]

Apple are known for their incremental upgrades, so look out for greased-lightningbolt before neutrino comes out.

[barryjohns]

Lacie came out with this thunderbolt hard drive, which seems to be a good option for guys like me who do a lot of remote recording.

LaCie's Rugged USB 3.0 Thunderbolt: fast portable storage that can take a beating -- Engadget

[Kcatthedog]

Originally Posted by cowboycoalminer

Hey Cowboy,

Don't laugh neutrinobolt is so fast, your session is produced before you even finish tuning your guitar !

Kcat

[Micah421]

Originally Posted by Kcatthedog

You may recall I have been exploring the implications of the TB card and have been interested in the hooking up to peripherals question.

With the release of the TB card UA site indicates the FW ports become a hub so i emailed them and asked what does this mean and wouldn't it be better to use the TB to FW800 cable and run everything TB ?

Answer from UA below seems to indicate yes.

"you add the Thunderbolt option to the Apollo then the Apollo Firewire 800 ports become a 'hub' for other devices ( as you've quoted ). You can connect the hard drives to the firewire 800 ports on the Apollo. In this scenario you are sharing the firewire bandwidth between the Apollo 'interface' and the 'hard drive' on the same firewire bEus within the Thunderbolt stream.*

The other option would be to connect these Firewire drives to a Thunderbolt->Firewire800 adapter connected to the second port of the Apollo thunderbolt card. In this scenario using the Thunderbolt-> Firewire800 adapter creates a new firewire bus within the Thunderbolt data stream that is separate from the firewire bus assigned to the Apollo interface. This would be the preferred setup as it would provide two separate firewire buses within the same Thunderbolt data stream."

End of ua quote so because the TB bandwidth is so much bigger than FW and is bidirectional it can support two FW 800 busses and transmit at TB speed between apollo and computer ! Nice attribute what other interface does that ? Oh ya the new avid if you have a full HD rig I think ?

The TB/FW800 cables are available from apple store for about 30 bucks i think so one TB cable from computer to apollo , one TB to FW cable to external drive in my case and I can daisy chain my two FW800 drives using the FW csble I already have. There is also A TB to esata cable from lacie I think and more expensive

Looks like this is the best way to manage bandwidth. Not certain about other people's set ups but hope this is helpful ?

Kcat

Kcat

This is great tech info!!! Thanks for sharing

[chrisso]

Originally Posted by cowboycoalminer

I'm wanting the extra channels to sum to my console and for external FX sends.

Exactly. Working well here.

(I did have a level difference between Apollo and Aurora, but I pressed a bunch of buttons on the front of Aurora without really noting what I was doing and now the levels match).

and I've told you before but I really like your Custom and Vintage line. Use it everyday on something.

Thanks. Very happy about that.

[MJB]

When you mentioned the "custom and vintage line", which product are you referring to? Sorry, I'm on a different page..

[cowboycoalminer]

Originally Posted by MJB

When you mentioned the "custom and vintage line", which product are you referring to? Sorry, I'm on a different page..

Superior Drummer 2.0. Chris did the tracking and the midi on that SDX.

[Kcatthedog]

Originally Posted by cowboycoalminer

Superior Drummer 2.0. Chris did the tracking and the midi on that SDX.

Hey Cowboy,

So he recorded the drums for the samples and when you say did midi , did they play an electronic kit or program the loops and grooves ?

Exactly how was the midi done , in your tunes the drum sound and the way they are played sound so real : one of the best !

Kcat

p.s. where will the thread be tomorrow ?

[Syncamorea]

Originally Posted by cowboycoalminer

I agree that the conversion quality is good enough to make great records. Just plugging a mic into an on board pre leaves a lot to be desired for me. I've had this thing long enough now to get very aquatinted with it. Using some select out board and even some plugs on the insert, I can get a nice mellow sound going in. I wouldn't call it a work around but it takes some crafting to get some of the bite out of it. It can get a bit harsh for my taste. My ear likes more of a warm sounding recording. It defiantly took some trial and error to get a work flow I was satisfied with but I'm glad I didn't bail. This is in my estimation still a great recording devise.

I've only got a faction of the hours of use with the Apollo that you have, but a bunch of what I have been doing is recording simultaneous comparisons of the Apollo pres with my outboard pres. So, for example, I have used a pair of matched condensors (Blue Bottle Rockets) and a pair of matched Fathead II Lundhals with one feeding the Apollo pre and the other going into an outboard pre. I've done this mostly on percussion but also acoustic and electric guitar, voice, etc. I've further complicated it by comparing the analog out of the Grace m201 into the Apollo A/D with the digital out of the m201.

My conclusion thus far is that the Apollo pres are very good, but have somewhat limited gain before they become grainy. I think the spec is 65dB of gain but I wouldn't plan on using them above 45 to 50 dB of gain if you want a quiet noise floor, especially for projects that stack a bunch of tracks. The good news is that, in their wheelhouse, the Apollo pres are very neutral, have great detail and adequate transient response. I expect mine to be used often, even though I have a bunch of channels of other pres to choose from.

[MJB]

I'm only just becoming aware of how background noise can build up on tracks, and I've begun using mid level settings on the Apollo, instead of setting the input right to the top with a line of yellow in transients. So far, so good, but I've got a way to go yet. I do wish I the Apollo had a way to see the exact level reading of a vocal track, so that if I come back another day and want to redo a few parts, I can get as close to the original levels as possible. This way I can merge tracks and have only one vocal level to work with.

[Beechwood]

The console recall plugin saves settings.

If you want to minimise noise, there can be other things to think about too, which you may already have under control, but hey, others may not...! Make sure you're recording in 24 bit, and that if you use any samples/drum libraries that they are set to 24 bit too.
Even with 24 bit recording if you set levels too low and compress a lot you can get problems with noise. Compressing also brings up background noise in your recordings, esp when you're compressing the channel, the master bus and using a limiter.

If you are keeping levels very low just so you don't have to use too much gain on the preamp just be aware that you could be causing yourself other problems!

[MJB]

Thanks Beechwood, it'll take a while for me to process that, much appreciated. Meanwhile back at the Butler chateau, i'm working on a different track for the mantra CD project I'm just beginning. Here's a clip with the Martin D41 on the left, my Doyle Dykes Taylor on the right, playing slide. There'll be tons of vocals, more instruments, and I'll replace the tabla with a real one. My question is, using UAD's compressors/limiter, can anyone recommend a setting to balance and tame the hardness of the Martin a bit? It's me, not the guitar, I was playing hard, and close to the bridge. Once I get the Ampex, would that be the cure?

I should mention that I used a little 1176AE on the Martin, with the high pass filter of a Waves SSL strip to cut frequencies below 20 hz.

[Kcatthedog]

Hey Mjr,

Remember the softube channel strip plug ?


On their site you can download a stereo analogue saturation plug for free has a big knob for dialing in just the right amount , a clipping light and switches!

Maybe you want to try it to smooth things out a bit and don't forget about the pultec pro mid range controls ?

Good luck !

Kcat

[MJB]

Thanks Kcat. I'll look into that. It's way early in tracking, and once I get quite a ways further down the road, I'll start tweaking. The Pultec's a good place to start, that softube channel strip did sound great, I bet the Manley Passive is what I'm looking for. I'll activate lots of UAD plugs when I get ready for mixing, and see how they work out. If anyone else has any suggestionsI'd appreciate them, it'll help me get a head start on it all. It might be as simple as a compressor on the master mix or the Ampex.

[cowboycoalminer]

Originally Posted by MJB

Thanks Beechwood, it'll take a while for me to process that, much appreciated. Meanwhile back at the Butler chateau, i'm working on a different track for the mantra CD project I'm just beginning. Here's a clip with the Martin D41 on the left, my Doyle Dykes Taylor on the right, playing slide. There'll be tons of vocals, more instruments, and I'll replace the tabla with a real one. My question is, using UAD's compressors/limiter, can anyone recommend a setting to balance and tame the hardness of the Martin a bit? It's me, not the guitar, I was playing hard, and close to the bridge. Once I get the Ampex, would that be the cure?

I should mention that I used a little 1176AE on the Martin, with the high pass filter of a Waves SSL strip to cut frequencies below 20 hz.

Man that don't sound hard to me. Sounds amazing. That Taylor on the right is perfect. Those big guitars are a bit harder to record but so worth it. The D-41 sounds good. Are you using HPF? Maybe a bit more if so. I have also found that recording a big guitar like that can benefit from recording in Omni and turning the capsule away about 45 degrees or so. Maybe even half to get the boom out. Your reeling it in though, Martin. Really really great sounds man.

Edit: I re listened at much higher level and I hear what your talking about. I hear proximity effect bringing the low mids out. Work with mic placement and you got it.

[MJB]

Thanks Cowboy, that's exactly what I've been doing, casually placing the mic somewhere close to the guitar to stay close to the computer to control it. Oh man, I'd love to be able to walk around my room and find the best mic placement. I have a little vestibule at the entryway to my apartment where the sound is great, but it's 18' away from my computer. I will be a bit more picky from now on, because the Martin does sound so good, even in a primitive setting, the least I can do is take five minutes to set up the mic position a little better. I purposely left a lot of space with the slide parts, because I know where the vocal will be, and didn't want to step on it.

I used the first click on the U17 to widen the pickup pattern on a duet vocal once, and it worked beautifully. Next time I'm tracking I'll audition a few of the variable mic patterns, thanks for the reminder. Thanks for listening everyone. I think that once mixed and mastered, the guitar will sit a lot more evenly, so I won't worry too much about it. I'm still interested in hearing which UAD plugs people are using for compression, and EQ, and what their basic levels and settings are for mixing down.

I'll try to set the high pass filter a little higher too, thanks cowboy.