UA Apollo First Look (user review)

[MJB]

You're inspiring me to work more on the acoustic guitar sounds now. I have a Martin Custom Shop D-41 Turbo, and a Taylor Doyle Dykes cut-away, The Martin's a cannon, perfectly balanced, deep, maybe the finest acoustic I've ever heard, The Taylor is highly articulate, bright, but with a tight and strong bottom. I've only stuck my Blackspade in front, and pushed record. I'd love to walk around my room and find a sweetspot, but when you're alone, and running the computer, it's just easier staying in my chair, so I can turn around and reach the computer keyboard. The Bock 195 I sold had the best acoustic sound I've used personally, but I think that Blue Kiwi is the deal.

I'm thinking of getting the UAD EMT140 first. It's $199 now, and I'm hoping they issue a coupon or discount soon. I'd love to get the Studer too, but at $349, it''s outta my price range at the moment. From August to Sept. 10th, I have almost no work.

[Kcatthedog]

Hey Mjr and Euphoria,

Ah an 80's guild acoustic what a classic love to hear something on it maybe in drop D or double dropped d ?

Mjr. I printed out the entire UA manual and am just reading about the emt140. You remember how your producer friend set of your vox chain with pre delay and filter cuts ? Plate c has all the Martec cuts an aftermarket add on so you can set the filter at 90,125,180,250 and 360 in addition to plates a and B setting of 80 hz.

Nice feature !

Another thing remember way back in the thread people were concerned at too rough rotary resolution , that is dependent on how close your mouse is to the centre of the rotary knob on the gui: the resolution gets finer as you move away from the centre of the knob. There is more versatility built into apollo and console than we have realized.

Agreed Euphoria so much almost everything is in the original tone !

Kcat

[euphoria89]

Originally Posted by MJB

You're inspiring me to work more on the acoustic guitar sounds now. I have a Martin Custom Shop D-41 Turbo, and a Taylor Doyle Dykes cut-away, The Martin's a cannon, perfectly balanced, deep, maybe the finest acoustic I've ever heard, The Taylor is highly articulate, bright, but with a tight and strong bottom. I've only stuck my Blackspade in front, and pushed record. I'd love to walk around my room and find a sweetspot, but when you're alone, and running the computer, it's just easier staying in my chair, so I can turn around and reach the computer keyboard. The Bock 195 I sold had the best acoustic sound I've used personally, but I think that Blue Kiwi is the deal.

I'm thinking of getting the UAD EMT140 first. It's $199 now, and I'm hoping they issue a coupon or discount soon. I'd love to get the Studer too, but at $349, it''s outta my price range at the moment. From August to Sept. 10th, I have almost no work.

Lovely Martin/Taylor models. They must sound great. Sounds like you have a similar love for acoustics as me. The blackspade is a great mic from all i've read, you can't go far wrong with that combination.

The 140 is def my fav reverb of all time now i've really had a chance to mess with it. It just sounds so god damn good all the time, and on virtually everything. I'm really liking the Plate C, with a decay time of about 1.5-20seconds, with about 25ms pre-delay, and with the highest filters so not to muddy up the low midrange. Works so well you can virtually not hear it working, but the moment you take it off you start to hear the sound of your environment/room, which isn't as pleasing.

Originally Posted by Kcatthedog

Hey Mjr and Euphoria,

Ah an 80's guild acoustic what a classic love to hear something on it maybe in drop D or double dropped d ?

Mjr. I printed out the entire UA manual and am just reading about the emt140. You remember how your producer friend set of your vox chain with pre delay and filter cuts ? Plate c has all the Martec cuts an aftermarket add on so you can set the filter at 90,125,180,250 and 360 in addition to plates a and B setting of 80 hz.

Nice feature !

Another thing remember way back in the thread people were concerned at too rough rotary resolution , that is dependent on how close your mouse is to the centre of the rotary knob on the gui: the resolution gets finer as you move away from the centre of the knob. There is more versatility built into apollo and console than we have realized.

Agreed Euphoria so much almost everything is in the original tone !

Kcat

Going to pick up this old Guild D40NT on Wednesday. Can't wait, sounds so much different than my other guitars. Sounds really played in, huge (but controlled) bottom end, and lovely midrange focus. Takes strumming so well, doesn't break up or alter its sound. Had to sell a Takamine to pay for it, but it was not a fully solid wood guitar, so it's still an upgrade. Love getting second hand deals. Someone else's junk is another mans treasure n all that.

Found virtually the same model on YouTube (but this has a cutaway). guild d40-cnt Gravity Music Gear Demo - YouTube

Sounds very much like this. Nice woody tone. It's my first Mahog guitar too. Only really only used rosewood/maple in the past.

As soon as i get it, i will try and post some tunes in an alternate tuning.

[Kcatthedog]

Hey Euphoria,

I had a 70's brazilian roswood larivee unfortunately stolen and now have a new mahogony. I really loved the newtone phosphur broze master med light gauge with the rosewood.

With the mahogony i am liking the DR Rare phosphur bronze they have a way of compressing the string gauge by .001, seems silly but less fatigue when playing and lots of tone !

Look forward to your recordings !

Kcat

[euphoria89]

Originally Posted by Kcatthedog

Hey Euphoria,

I had a 70's brazilian roswood larivee unfortunately stolen and now have a new mahogony. I really loved the newtone phosphur broze master med light gauge with the rosewood.

With the mahogony i am liking the DR Rare phosphur bronze they have a way of compressing the string gauge by .001, seems silly but less fatigue when playing and lots of tone !

Look forward to your recordings !

Kcat

Ouch, must of hurt loosing that guitar i must imagine, especially considering how good Brazilian rosewood sounds when aged. Really feel for you!

Will def look at some different strings. They all sound totally different and some suit other guitars more than others. For instance, i get the best out of the Taylor with Elixirs, but they aren't quite as special on the Martin. Sound nice, but sound a bit too modern for what is an old design of a guitar. Love the aged sound to go with the D28, considering it is only 6 months old and hasn't really broke in much at all, so needs all the help it can get. Only strings i have tried and hated (twice) are the relatively new Martin SP Lifespan. The day you put them on, they sound GREAT, but the day after, they sound totally dead and boring. After two days i was wishing i had 3 month old Elixirs on again! Really hoping some of the other Martin strings maybe aren't quite as bad!

Not sure what to purchase for the Guild. It's such a heavy guitar and has been played in so well that it really sounds dark, especially with the old strings it had when i played it in the store. I'm thinking 80/20 over Phosphor Bronze for the simple reason they are slightly brighter overall? Might also opt for .11-52 gauge instead of my usual .12-53 gauge just so the bass isn't super overpowering. Will prob go for some DR's instead of Elixirs cos ill be skint!

Also saving up for a Beyer MC930 small diaphragm. Not got a single SDC or ribbon despite having quite a few LDC's/Dynamics. The MC930 seems to get raved quite a bit on here against the standard KM184. Very cheap in comparison too, but this will be next month most prob. Considering i'm really into the acoustic guitar recording i guess it would be ideal to have at least one SDC! Will post recordings when i get it.

[MJB]

euphoria, my Taylor likes the Elixer's too, and yes, the Martin with Elixers just doesn't sound right. I figured since they were so good on the Taylor, that I'd try them on the Martin, so I tried them a few days back, and now I wish I'd never put them on there. I've used Martin Marquis for decades, they're still very good, but I suggest you try D'Addario 12's for the new acoustic. They're what came with my Martin, and they sound better on the Martin than Martin Marquis, and I suspect they'll be good for the Guild, as the D'Addario's are a touch bright, which might help balance the Guild. The brightness balances out after a day or two, so try to be patient.

Any news from UAD regarding sales or coupons? Sometime's they send email offers to different customers and different areas at different times.

[Kcatthedog]

hey euphoria

yes miss that guitar everyday check out my youtube channel kcatthedog"grasslands"video to hear it!

as you are in GB please try some newtones masterclass hand wound over round cores one of the nicest strings I have used in 40 years of playing

also have you considered the octava sdc matched pair from the german supplier under 300euros ?

kcat

[Kcatthedog]

I hear what you mean the beyer sounds great !!!

Beyer MC930 vs Rode NT55 vs Oktava Mod HST11-A - YouTube

Kcat

[MJB]

Just got an email from UAD, if you answer their questionnaire, you'll get a $25 discount soon. Hmm, I'd write five pages if I could get a 2 for 1 sale ;-)

[Kcatthedog]

Originally Posted by MJB

Just got an email from UAD, if you answer their questionnaire, you'll get a $25 discount soon. Hmm, I'd write five pages if I could get a 2 for 1 sale ;-)

Hey MJR,

The questions and prioritization of new features were very interesting. I asked for the cowboycoalminer production emulation !

Kcat

[MJB]

"I asked for the cowboycoalminer production emulation !"

if this was facebook I'd click "like". It was interesting to think on those answers. Me, I want an upgrade path from Duet to Quad.

[Kcatthedog]

Originally Posted by MJB

"I asked for the cowboycoalminer production emulation !"

if this was facebook I'd click "like". It was interesting to think on those answers. Me, I want an upgrade path from Duet to Quad.

Interesting, i asked why they couldn't design a little card/motherboard with extra chips that would run off the apollo as host on FW ?

It seems to me that buying a whole satalite or another apollo is overkill.

A home based songwriter could use more uad processing but might not need another apollo, more bandwidth use TB which frees up the FW bandwidth so a little card with more chips could be interesting.

Software changes to apollo are relatively easy i don't know what the throughput and internal processing limitations of the current apollo are but if you can daisy chain that implies 2 units running in parallel so a little motherboard card with extra chiPs sounds interesting or can the chips be overclocked ?

Kcat

[cowboycoalminer]

I told them I want aggregate devise integration. Sucks that it won't run in this mode with other converters. About a deal breaker for me as I want to use other converters. Along with it. It's really got me thinking about bailing.

[MJB]

That make perfect sense cowboy, why limit choices?, that kind of flexibility would keep many Apollo owners buying UAD plugs forever.

[Kcatthedog]

Originally Posted by cowboycoalminer

I told them I want aggregate devise integration. Sucks that it won't run in this mode with other converters. About a deal breaker for me as I want to use other converters. Along with it. It's really got me thinking about bailing.

Cowboy, in PTX if you have masterclock to your interfaces can't you set up an aggregate device ?

Kcat

[cowboycoalminer]

Not with Apollo no. It won't run in aggregate mode at all. I've tried and I called support and it it seemed I was teaching the tech. No help there. The driver is not compatable with aggregate. They can rewrite it and change this though. And they should hurry!

[Kcatthedog]

[Besottedly]

Originally Posted by cowboycoalminer

Not with Apollo no. It won't run in aggregate mode at all. I've tried and I called support and it it seemed I was teaching the tech. No help there. The driver is not compatable with aggregate. They can rewrite it and change this though. And they should hurry!

@cowboy

I'm not sure I if understand you correctly here. Do mean running the Apollo in the Mac is as part of an aggregate audio setup in general? or do you mean specifically the kind of aggragte that has multiple high end audio converters running on the fire wire bus chain?
I ask this because I run the system audio and the Apollo as an aggregate device on the audio midi setup on my Mac.
I also have a profire attached via Adat to the apollo but, for a while I had both the Apollo and the profire in aggragte form through the audio midi system settings as well.
Maybe some devices will play and others won't...?

Anyway maybe I'm not understanding you. Or maybe I can help

[PMoshay]

Hey All,
I just got back and have got my setup running with the Apple Thunderbolt to FW800 adaptor and so far it all works fantastic.
Here's my setup that i have found works AMAZING! This setup is so far my dream setup because its small & has more power than my old HD3 setup.
I so excited when the TB card comes for the Apollo, the USB 3.0 drives handle audio amazing and benchmark even faster than i imagined since i could get a USB 3.0 w/SSD drive so cheap.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here's the details:
Macbook Pro Retina 2.6ghz / 16GB ram / 512 SSD Drive / OSX 10.7.2

Apollo Quad connected to MBP via Apple TB to FW800 adaptor (UAD v6.3)

Protools HD10.2 with all waves,Duende & a truck load of plug-in's

External Drive running 70 track session is a Sandisk Extreme SSD 240GB via USB 3.0

SIIG Combo USB 2.0 (4) & USB 3.0 (3) Hub

OnLap 13.3" 2nd monitor via the MBP HDMI port (& USB for power)

Wacom Intuos 4 Tablet & Logitec Mouse & iLoks

Digidesign Command 8....... (for traveling i will use iPad with Neyrinck V-Control Pro for size & weight..... and it works amazing!)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here's a link to the pictures i just snapped.... not the best picts, but you'll get the idea... Click the link below to see the pictures.

MBP Retina-Apollo Travelling setup 1 - a set on Flickr

[Kcatthedog]

Hey PMoshey,

Thx ! So essentially you are using your MBP as a connectivity Hub ?

I am very interested in the different ways people will set up TB and obviously we don't have the UA card yet. When u get the card you will lose the apple TB to FW adaptor right but leave everything else : right ?

Do people know, once you use TB card does all the apollo operating info go to it by default ? I don't understand whether the internal op of the Apollo automatically routes by TB and no longer uses the FW so in effect this is how the increased plug count , efficiency and lower latency derives from : basicall FW throttles the Apollo and TB removes the Throttle ?

Hope this is clear ? I am wondering when you use TB what happens tothe FW bandwidth limitation ? Its still measured in percent but is the actual bandwidth increased to the unit's operational maximum which is currently limited by the FW cable bandwidth ??


Does anybody know other than lev perry ? Hello UA a little help here ?

Kcat

[Clonkified]

Originally Posted by Solnadinho

UA Apollo...Just got one. Great sound. Totally unstable/flaky FW. I´m going back to RME.:-(

Anybody else experiencing this on a standard Mac Pro? How are the drivers compared to RME?

[Kcatthedog]

For almost everyone drivers are fine , but I recall there can be problems with pci or pcie cards i think ? There was a reference a few pages back chech euphoria89's response ?

Kcat

[PMoshay]

Originally Posted by Kcatthedog

Hey PMoshay,
Thx ! So essentially you are using your MBP as a connectivity Hub ?

Not sure what you mean exactly? please explain more.

[Kcatthedog]

Originally Posted by PMoshay

Not sure what you mean exactly? please explain more.

Sorry,

Was just visualizing the cables from the mbp to apollo and your peripherals:

1 Tb to Fw800 to apollo
2 usb3 to ssd drive ect.

Once the TB cards are available basically one option is everthing on TB and daisy chained. The other option will be TB to apollo and then people have options: lacie esata hub, apple TB to FW800 cable , FW to FW.

So i saw your mbp as a comm hub: able to communicate on different protocals(TB, usb3, ect) depending on your peripherals.

Hope that is clearer ?

Kcat

[PMoshay]

Originally Posted by Kcatthedog

Was just visualizing the cables from the mbp to apollo and your peripherals:
1 Tb to Fw800 to apollo
2 usb3 to ssd drive ect.

Once the TB cards are available basically one option is everthing on TB and daisy chained. The other option will be TB to apollo and then people have options: lacie esata hub, apple TB to FW800 cable , FW to FW.

So i saw your mbp as a comm hub: able to communicate on different protocals(TB, usb3, ect) depending on your peripherals.

Hope that is clearer ?
Kcat

I am planning my setup to finally be (based on my current test results - less UA TB interface test):
------------------------------------------------------------
MBP Retina --> Apollo via Thunderbolt (4.46lbs) & (9.1lbs)

Audio Drive will be: Sandisk Extreme SSD 240GB via USB 3.0 (so far fastest results in tests, and cost/portability is excellent) (.3lb)

SIIG USB 3.0 Hub / Wacom Intuos 5 / iLoks (1.9lbs)

OnLap 13.3" 2nd monitor via the MBP HDMI port (uses 1 USB for power)<--this is optional for travel, probably i will use iPad 3 w/Neyrinck) (1.7lbs)

iPad 3 with Neyrinck V-Control Pro (1.9lbs)

Sony MDR-7520 Headphones & power strip (1.7lbs)
------------------------------------------------------------
That's all i need to do some serious mixing and moderate tracking stuff - All weighs in at under 20lbs

From what i am experiencing from my using this so far (without the UA TB card yet)..... This is just as powerful as my studio rig, in fact so far it has opened every session i can throw at it.
Coming from recording on 8track tape in the 80's to now is kind of a mind blowing experience for me....... I never thought i'd see something like this in my life and i'm so grateful for all the advances we get to enjoy.
Heck, i remember the day i was just dreaming about being able to automate fader moves....... Who would have imagined all of this back then!


P.S. In my drive bench tests, USB 3.0 with SSD drive has a healthy edge on speed, but i have not tested Thunderbolt with SSD drives yet (but did test platter drives with TB).
From all i have experienced and read, there is no platter drives that will benchtest faster than a modern SSD drive..... If anyone knows different, please post some info for us.

[Syncamorea]

Originally Posted by PMoshay

From all i have experienced and read, there is no platter drives that will benchtest faster than a modern SSD drive..... If anyone knows different, please post some info for us.

A fast 15K RPM platter HD will sustain ~200 MB/s. You can get a 600GB Cheetah for about $400.

An inexpensive 7200 rpm large capacity platter HD will sustain write in the 130-140MB/s range and you can get a 3 TB model for around $160.

A fast SSD like the OCZ Collosus II will sustain ~250 MB/s and a 1 TB model will only cost you $3K.

On a more level playing field, you can get the Intel 320 series SSD in a 600GB model for $870 that will sustain ~220MB/s (all these are write specs). Peak specs on SSDs are out of this world but sustained is what really matters.

What I like about SSDs: no moving parts thus they are silent and impact resistant. The read/write performance is great but not specifically needed - in general - for audio. 130MB/s will take you a long way in digital audio.

[PMoshay]

Originally Posted by Syncamorea

A fast 15K RPM platter HD will sustain ~200 MB/s. You can get a 600GB Cheetah for about $400.

An inexpensive 7200 rpm large capacity platter HD will sustain write in the 130-140MB/s range and you can get a 3 TB model for around $160.

A fast SSD like the OCZ Collosus II will sustain ~250 MB/s and a 1 TB model will only cost you $3K.

On a more level playing field, you can get the Intel 320 series SSD in a 600GB model for $870 that will sustain ~220MB/s (all these are write specs). Peak specs on SSDs are out of this world but sustained is what really matters.

What I like about SSDs: no moving parts thus they are silent and impact resistant. The read/write performance is great but not specifically needed - in general - for audio. 130MB/s will take you a long way in digital audio.

Here are some of the bench test's i did with drives i have, these are speed ratings in X-Bench and NOT actual thru put specs. My tests were done using either my new MBP Retina or my 2010 iMac i7 with Apple internal SSD & WD 1TB/7200RPM on the internal SATA port of the iMac (10.7.4 & X-Bench 1.3)

From what i am experiencing and seeing the USB 3.0 SSD drive combo is a clear speed/price/ease choice...... And when i use it, it feels like a Ferrari!
This is not to say that my internal 7200RPM drives on my Mac Pro & iMac don't fly... They have been in constant heavy use for years and give fantastic track counts with Protools 9 & 10...... But i can see the future ahead from my tests and usage. Platter drives use lots of power & generate lots of extra heat, both are not good for a small portable system (not that i'd use it on battery power!)..... But heat is a definite issue.
I can't wait till the 512GB & 1TB SSD drives come down to the equal pricing structure of the 128GB & 256GB SSD's.
I just bought another 240GB SanDisk Extreme for $159 online.... Its getting better!.
I'll keep posting any insight and findings as i go, my rig won't be finished till i get the UA TB card for the Apollo.

X-Bench 1.3 Drive Speed Tests--------Speed Rating
Retina Internal SSD 512GB----------------476
iMac Internal SSD 256GB------------------355
Sandisk Extreme SSD 128GB USB3.0-----247
WD 1TB 7200RPM Internal iMac-----------103
LaCie Little Big Disk 1TB Thunderbolt-----97
WD 7200RPM FW800 Avastor--------------69
GoFlex USB 3.0 1TB portable--------------66
Lacie D2 7200 FW800----------------------44
GoFlex USB 3.0 500GB portable-----------42
Oyen 2.5" Case 7200RPM FW800----------39

[PMoshay]

It's a fairly small & powerful setup if i leave the Command 8 home.
And i'm probably gonna just use the iPad 3 with Neyrinck V-Control Pro as the 2nd monitor & controller instead......

[Kcatthedog]

Hey Peter,

Thx for all the data. I have apollo but an 09 imac i5 no TB. Nice computer but I bump into cpu problems and obvioulsy a new i7 with TB is appealing. I have 2 less than 1 year old owc 7200 drives running FW 800 but i wonder about jumping to SSD.

I hope other people will tell us about their rigs and TB configurations and peripherals: great learning opportunity !

Happing mobile recording !

Kcat

[MJB]

I've been practicing mixing a bit lately, and I'm starting to realize every change causes a ripple effect, affecting everything else. I added a slight kick drum boost, using the UAD Pultec Pro, and I began to notice guitars were dull, drums seem unbalanced. I'd gotten so far away from my earlier mixes, step by step, that nothing was working anymore. I returned to an much earlier mix, made a few adjustments I was certain of, and its much better again. Man, this stuff's tricky. I like the Pultec Pro though, pretty smooth.