UA Apollo First Look (user review)

[cowboycoalminer]

Prankin around with x y pattern on acoustic this morning before church. All UA.

[Kcatthedog]

Originally Posted by cowboycoalminer

Prankin around with x y pattern on acoustic this morning before church. All UA.

Hey Cowboy,

marvellous spaciousness, breadth and tone,

fine playing and structure as usual

completely had the being there experience; really like your vocal quality how your voice opens up in the different parts of the song

if you could describe the mikes, 90 degree or otrf and they were direct into apollo or outboard pres ?

As usual thx for a fine example of quality recording to aspire to !

kcat

[MJB]

What a really nice guitar sound, great fingerpicking. When I was first learning guitar, I didn't know when many of my favorite players were fingerpicking, so I tried to imitate that with a flat pick. Even now, I'm a weak fingerpicker, but you're inspiring me to work on it a little, thanks.

Please let us know the basic signal path, which mic or mics, placement, did you keep it stereo, even for the mix, was the vocal done later or simultaneously?

[TWoods]

Originally Posted by cowboycoalminer

I've been experiencing some strange stuff lately. My midi controller now has major latency and sometimes my audio tracks get out of sync in the project. I'm weirded out by this as I have never had latency issues. Any idea whats going on?

Could it be that you don't have delay compensation enabled? Go to setup>playback engine. Midway down in the menu there is "Delay Compensation Engine". Click the drop down menu, select one. It'll tell you it's gonna save and close, then reopen. It will, and very quickly. I had the same problem as the session grew. Did this and all problems have been solved.

Hope this was what you were talking about.

[Beechwood]

Originally Posted by jonathan.osborne

Do you recommend it over the other Neve eqs? I am kinda torn between them all. I know the 1081 has the extra band and LP filter but I have heard that it isn't as "hyped" as the 1073. That's what I really like about the eq and I'm afraid the others won't quite deliver that and then I'll need them both. I'd rather sacrifice a few freq bands than sacrifice the tone of this eq. I don't know too much about the 31102. Too many decisions. :S

The 1073 is simple, and has a great sound.

The 31102 does basically everything the 1073 does, but with extra functionality. The might be a tiny difference in sound, but to me it was nothing that bothered me when I compared. It has hpf and lpf, and 3 high shelf frequencies, including a pretty awesome 16kHz option. It's probably a bit more hifi than the 1073, or at least it can be.

The 1081 is great. I find it especially good for midrange sounds, guitars, drums, keys etc. It always seems to emphasise the mid range whatever you do compared with the others, maybe this is why some people are less keen on it? But I find that if you know what you're doing with it, it's great.

I have the 31102 and the 1081 fwiw.

[euphoria89]

Just something really special i want to share with you guys.

Solo Violin/Fiddle using a Blue Kiwi straight into the Apollo Preamps.

No compression/EQ, only reverb which is the 224.

Limiter to raise level, but only touching highest transient.

[Kcatthedog]

Originally Posted by euphoria89

Just something really special i want to share with you guys.

Solo Violin/Fiddle using a Blue Kiwi straight into the Apollo Preamps.

No compression/EQ, only reverb which is the 224.

Limiter to raise level, but only touching highest transient.

Hey Euphoria89 ,

sitting here with a big smile on my face just digging that great track

great playing, great tone and the lex so suits that

the fiddle has all that woody tone and yet the bow attack sound perfectly natural and not grating at all

now if I could order a pint I'll wait for the rest of the band to show up !,,,, oh ya,,, I am not really there,,, sure felt like I was !!!

tell me more about the mike !

kcat

[cowboycoalminer]

Originally Posted by euphoria89

Just something really special i want to share with you guys.

Solo Violin/Fiddle using a Blue Kiwi straight into the Apollo Preamps.

No compression/EQ, only reverb which is the 224.

Limiter to raise level, but only touching highest transient.

That fiddle is a hoss!! Bet she knows to hang on to that one. Or if she's looking to sell, I'd be glad to help her out. Always willing to help

I decided to go ahead and fully produce that track I was tooling with this morning. Might get a placement for it someday.

@MJB
The mics were placed on a 3 foot triangle using 1 Apollo pre and 1 Martech. But you could get just as good a result using both Apollo pre's. Some like to move mics around to get the right phase but since I track all my own stuff and always have, I set the mics and move myself around to find the sweet spot. Hit record. Simple as that. Your ears will tell you when you find it.

I might add, I tried the new 1176 compressors. Folks are always asking me what I think they should buy and I don't like to tell others their business, but I'll say buy these. Hands down the best money spent in audio, period! Not a pennies worth of difference in these and the real thing. I'd know, I've used them all a lot.I bought them seconds after strapping one on. Yet more outboard I can sell and buy more DSP because I have been hitting the wall a lot lately

[Kcatthedog]

Hey cowboy,

Yes keep developing the song !

So with the guitar being 1 point of the triangle and the other two being the respective mikes which gives the sound that little distance to spread ?

Thx for the comment on 1176 , i have never used real ones but i demoed them and thought they just sounded better plus at half price and they count in discounts for other plugs: Hard to say no !

Now, a sensitive issue, am I supposed to thank euphoria89 for introducing me to that sweet little blue number from down under that knocks my socks off and only cost 2500 all in ?. Isn't that fiddle track great !!

Kcat

[MJB]

Euphoria, that's just wonderful, moody, dark and serious. If it's the Blue Bottle that's helping to create the mystery, I'm impressed, but I suspect it's Lauren doing the heavy lifting.

Thanks Cowboy. I'll try that on my next acoustic guitar track. On my first (and only song so far with Apollo), I did two acoustic guitar tracks playing close to the same parts, one panned hard left, One right. It sounds good, but I like what your doing as much or better, it's very intimate, yet quite a big sound.

Are you still using the U17R for that vocal?

[cowboycoalminer]

Originally Posted by MJB

Are you still using the U17R for that vocal?

Yep. My go to for everything now. It's just unbelievably good. I've got it burned in now with about 200 hours!

Originally Posted by Kcatthedog

Yes keep developing the song !

Not mastered but close enough

[Category 5]

Originally Posted by cowboycoalminer

Yep. My go to for everything now. It's just unbelievably good. I've got it burned in now with about 200 hours!


Not mastered but close enough

Great sound Cowboy! What a fun song. It's like watching the movie of the story you tell. I love story songs.

No get back to it and bust out some harmonies too! ;-)

[MJB]

Man, that's really fun to listen to Cowboy, the thunder effects work beautifully. That acoustic guitar sounds great, really top of the line! The U17R's killer, it never give up it's grip. My U17's getting there. At a certain point along the way of the break in period, it just started to sound like a whole different thang.

Is that you on the fiddle and banjo? I'm curious, for the shaker, do you use a midi controller, or do it live with a mic?

[mark714]

Now that this has been out a little while, is anybody using this in a live setting? I'm curious how it would perform as a basic digital mixer for mostly acoustic shows.

I can see it is technically possible. I've seen the YouTube guy that is doing it. I'm wondering if the workflow of the console app, latency and monitor output accuracy is usable for self-run live FOH for smaller shows (under 250 people) with simple monitoring.

[tommyecho]

Originally Posted by cowboycoalminer

Yep. My go to for everything now. It's just unbelievably good. I've got it burned in now with about 200 hours!


Not mastered but close enough

I love this. The mood of the backing tracks is so good. I really like the line about the flannel nightgown.

I think I'll be trying the cowboy triangle myself!

Cowboy, are you using a quad? you mentioned that you are running out of dsp, so I'm just wondering. I had a duo and was maxing it out, so I traded mine in for a quad, which is working out great over here.

[euphoria89]

Originally Posted by Kcatthedog

Hey Euphoria89 ,

sitting here with a big smile on my face just digging that great track

great playing, great tone and the lex so suits that

the fiddle has all that woody tone and yet the bow attack sound perfectly natural and not grating at all

now if I could order a pint I'll wait for the rest of the band to show up !,,,, oh ya,,, I am not really there,,, sure felt like I was !!!

tell me more about the mike !

kcat

Ha, thanks for your kinds words. Yes, the fiddle has a beautiful tone. He (Laurens) makes them for a living and this is one of his babies. Very mellow and warm, yet clear and powerful.

I'm sure you've looked it up, but the mic is the Blue Kiwi, and is not actually blue at all. I bought it last year off ebay for £900, which was a really great price. In perfect condition and works stunningly on acoustic instruments. I've used many Neumann U87's and although different, the Kiwi is every bit as good, if not better in my honest opinion. It doesn't have quite the same lower mid emphasis, but is clearer and still very full sounding.

Originally Posted by cowboycoalminer

That fiddle is a hoss!! Bet she knows to hang on to that one. Or if she's looking to sell, I'd be glad to help her out. Always willing to help

Its actually a He, and he makes them for a living. Not a bad job eh.

Originally Posted by MJB

Euphoria, that's just wonderful, moody, dark and serious. If it's the Blue Bottle that's helping to create the mystery, I'm impressed, but I suspect it's Lauren doing the heavy lifting.

Yep, you got it, its Laurens. We've only known him for about a month now since joining our band, but he seems to know his stuff. We're all in awe every time he plays, always raises a smile. He seems to be able to vary his playing style very naturally to portray different emotions and expressions.

For me, the reverb and sense of space is the second most important factor. As this was done in a bedroom (of all places), the UA 224 removes the inherent room tone which is not desirable, and creates a lovely width through the reverb decay. I don't know how i'm going to afford this plugin as well!

One of the best things about the Apollo is that you can run these plugins live on input, and even if its just for monitoring, the difference having a reverb like this in your headphones as a performer is nothing short of inspiring. I only loaded up the 224 as my demo period for the 140/250 had expired! I wasn't expecting it to be my cup of tea as from previous experience with Lexicon reverbs, i've found them to be too over the top for lack of a better phrase, but not this!

So far i haven't purchased any plugins as i'm waiting till i get paid right at the end of the month, but so far i have now about 8-9 that i am using every day and to be honest i'm going to somehow have to find the cash to get them all, because they all have such specific uses. I think this sale is really the time to get the biggest savings. I really couldn't imagine not using the UA reverbs.

This thread alone has made me more of a slut than i could have ever imagined!

Also in the works next week are those previous tracks i posted, complete with vocals and fiddle/perc, so will post them once finally complete.

Yet again loving the track Cowboy. At first, i didn't recognise the vocal as being you, but since have. Really like the latter version. The intro FX are lovely and are always a great way to start/end a track. Like the simplicity of the song compared to some of your others, and i like the slightly lower vocal level in the mix. Top stuff, hope you continue to post!

[Kcatthedog]

Morning,

Euphoria89 UA will reset your plugs. I asked cus of the sale and they said sure.

Have you followed the thread about the neve eq's, if you were buying one would you go with the 4 band ?. Something tells me Cowboy is going to be ordering a fiddle !

Hey Cowboy, second mix really evocative !

I want to say this carefully cus I don't want to in any way to diminish the quality of your previous posts but for me as a singer songwriter there is a quality to this song which is above your previous songs here. For me, its the artistry as opposed to your very hi level of general proficiency, of it and I feel that you are more genuinely in this song, that this is your more natural voice etc; its very moving and engaging; the true artist you are emerging, I say that sincerely.

I would encourage you as a writer to not rewrite this song but try to be in that genuine place as you write other songs.

So , I guess what I am saying is, you knock me out with your engineering and production chops but this song artistically for me as a listener/ songwriter/performer and poet is in a whole other place .

I hope you feel that too !

kcat

[BeatCrate]

Originally Posted by cowboycoalminer

Yep. My go to for everything now. It's just unbelievably good. I've got it burned in now with about 200 hours!


Not mastered but close enough

Hey cowyboy, country is not really my cup of tea, but nice stuff.

The amount of talent on gearslutz is always mindblowing.

[StoneinaPond]

Originally Posted by euphoria89

Just something really special i want to share with you guys.

Solo Violin/Fiddle using a Blue Kiwi straight into the Apollo Preamps.

No compression/EQ, only reverb which is the 224.

Limiter to raise level, but only touching highest transient.

Stellar playing and first rate recording.

[cowboycoalminer]

Sorry for any confusion here but I didn't write that tune. That's an old Garth Brooks number I was sure everyone had heard. I was just plugging around with it and decided to record it kinda as hybrid bluegrass. Sorry to mislead, that was not my intention.

[Kcatthedog]

Originally Posted by cowboycoalminer

Sorry for any confusion here but I didn't write that tune. That's an old Garth Brooks number I was sure everyone had heard. I was just plugging around with it and decided to record it kinda as hybrid bluegrass. Sorry to mislead, that was not my intention.

Well i still stand by my observation there is a naturalness or a quality to that performance that really let your talent shine !

So there is something special in there for you thanks for posting: keep em coming and when do you get your new fiddle !

Kcat

[stakeoutstudios]

Originally Posted by SRS

If I use my Apple trackpad (in the Apollo Console), a very slight upward finger gesture on the trackpad has a huge volume change very quickly. Also, if you are not careful, a double tap on the trackpad will instantly put the monitor control at 0.0db (and really wake up anyone within 1/4 mile of your monitors)...

Don't use your trackpad. Use the volume controls on your computer keyboard, they have neatly tied it into console. Very precise.

I agree there should be an option to change the stepping of the levels though.

[Kcatthedog]

Originally Posted by stakeoutstudios

Don't use your trackpad. Use the volume controls on your computer keyboard, they have neatly tied it into console. Very precise.

I agree there should be an option to change the stepping of the levels though.

Hey great to know but not working on my mac do you set it up in control panel ?

kcat

[Kcatthedog]

on mac its command and f10 or f11 !

[SRS]

Originally Posted by stakeoutstudios

Very precise.

But it still steps in 15db to 19db steps at the lower levels. That is precise indeed, but the resolution (level jumps) of those steps is VERY, VERY crude and not smooth at all.

I could work with 1 or 2, or Hell, even 5db steps I suppose, but 15 to 19db steps, that is way too much jumping around. I am still awaiting a response from UA support to see what their take is on this.

And yes, I know of the keyboard use for volume control and it is nice that UA works with it, but I have issue with the resolution of the monitor control attenuation.

[Kcatthedog]

Hey everyone,

just got this email concerning pro tools from pro tools expert. com, people having midi problems have you been using pt 10.1.3 ?


here is the url: </title> <script src="/faces/a4j/g/3_3_3.Finalorg.ajax4jsf.javascript.AjaxScript" type="text/javascript"></script><script src="/pkb/jslibrary/1329331264000/sfdc/JiffyStubs.js" type="text/javascript"></script><script src="/pkb/static/111811/js/functio

Hi kcat,

I'm not sure if it has anything to do with this, but Avid released Pro Tools 10.2 updates today. They may have pulled the 10.1.3 updater.

Regards,

Eric Johnson
Community Development Manager
Pro Tools Expert

On Apr 28, 2012, at 4:55 PM, Pro Tools Expert wrote:

This email was transmitted via Pro Tools Tips, Tricks & More... - Pro Tools Expert Blog.


I just got my sad 4.0 problems sorted out but still have too much delay between striking my yamaha pad and hearing the sound .

So I wil try the reinstall of 10.1.2 and see what happens.

kcat

[Kcatthedog]

SO the protools update is 10.2 a step forward.

here is what the read me files says about midi, this is specific to a known problem with punching in but it is apparently related to delay compensation which may be the link to us apollo users.

MIDI
Sibelius does not launch when using the Send to Sibelius command (PTSW-24193)
When you first install any of the supported Sibelius packages (Sibelius, Sibelius First, or Sibelius Student), the Send to Sibelius command in Pro Tools will return a false error stating that Sibelius is not installed in the system. To avoid this problem, launch Sibelius manually and create a score document. This will only needs to be done once, after which the Send to Sibelius command should function properly.
When using Import Session Data on a MIDI track with Real-Time Properties enabled and set to using diatonic transposition, transposition is based on the first key signature in the session only (PTSW-49297)
When importing session data from a session that includes multiple key signatures and a MIDI or Instrument track with the “Transpose in Key” Real-Time property enabled, the transposition will be based only on the first key in the session. This can be corrected by toggling the Real-Time Properties off and on, at which point the diatonic transposition will be correct for each key.

Record-enabled MIDI or Instrument tracks play out of time when punching in (98835)
With Delay Compensation enabled, the underlying data on MIDI or Instrument tracks plays out of time when attempting to punch-in to a record-armed MIDI or Instrument) track.

Unavailable MIDI input paths for MIDI and Instrument tracks are not indicated (PTSW-46839)
The device or path name for MIDI Input on MIDI and Instrument tracks is not italicized and grayed out when opening a session on a system where the device or path are not actually present.
MIDI Type 1 files exported from Pro Tools 7.x and higher do not import correctly into Pro Tools 6.x (PTSW-59835)
MIDI Type 1 files (SMF 1) exported from Pro Tools 7.x and higher are not imported properly into Pro Tools T 6.x. MIDI tracks are created correctly, but the MIDI clips are not placed in playlists. Instead, they are inserted in the Clip List only. The work- around is to drag the MIDI clips into the playlists.

kcat

[Kcatthedog]

So my ptx seems to be running fine, but I still have too much latency when triggering from my yamaha kit.

My yamaha dtx head bypasses the apollo of course as it has no midi input and goes directly into my iMac through the yamaha midi to usb 2 converter.

I have played around with the likely settings in PTX and in apollo but I cannot stop the latency or delay.

This was fine 2 weeks ago ?

I have contacted UA directly cus something doesn't make sense.

I'll let you know what they say.

For PT users many more aax plugs now so getting set up for 64 bit it would seem!

ya now I like the euphonix channel strip and it works fine but when I a b the neve eq and the euphonix, the neve just wipes the floor with it.

I have vcc on the way so I am curious about using it with the euphonix channel strip to see if I get the convenience of the channel strip and the voicing of the different consoles. I am even more curious to try this and then a b with the UA neve eq and see which is more compelling.

Of course, I want to do all this before the end of May

one of the reasons I bought the apollo quad was to balance the work between my iMac and the apollo so I didn't have to buy a new computer too. So far this has worked fine and I saved some money. I am more interested in getting UA plugs to use the horsepower of the sharc chips.

But beyond practicality, it seems every time I a b some non UA plug with the UA, it always seems to me that the UA has more tone. Anyway to each their own; happy may shopping everyone !


kcat

[Format C: yes]

Thanks for the Info kcat. At least the midi errors are not related to the apollo. I like PT so I hope they sort this issue.. I am in a similar situation (re computer horsepower) but am holding out untill Thunderbolt is up and running on the apollo.

[Texum]

Gotta say I was really hoping for the Apollo, esp. because it would seem that it would be the first good interface with Thunderbolt, as I need the portability of a Macbook.

But at this point I'm kinda disappointed about the converters, although I'm only going by my impression from clips posted by others.

I've listened to most clips/samples in this thread and in others, and I'm particularly concerned about the lack of depth and the hard upper mids I perceive in most clips of the Apollo.

Agreed, it can be difficult to do proper A/B comparisons, due to differing performances and placements etc. etc, but when the same impressions endure over multiple clips from different contributors, and from multiple threads, I think it is possible to form an informed opinion.

To me, this is particularly evident when comparing the Apollo to great converters like the UA 2192 and Symphony, but I also think that the Apollo sounds a bit hard when compared to the UFX.

Disclaimer: I realize my hope was a bit high, when it appeared early on that UA compared the Apollo to the 2192.

At this point, in 2012, many years after the 2192 was introduced, I was really hoping that converter technology would have evolved and enabled even a rather cheap interface to have great converters. Perhaps not so, you still have to put up a larger chunk of money even on converters.