UA Apollo First Look (user review)

[Billy Buck]

Originally Posted by Category 5

Popped open the Apollo

I had no doubt that UA would be using quality audio components. But, thanks for popping the lid and confirming what many have been hearing.

Hopefully, once I get some downtime I can set mine up this weekend. Due to my workload, I've only had time to take it out the box, inspect it and read through some of the material.

Cheers,

Billy Buck

[method1]

Originally Posted by Category 5

Popped open the Apollo

Great stuff. Any chance you made note of what kind of caps are in there.....?

[Kcatthedog]

Originally Posted by Category 5

Popped open the Apollo

DAx5 (1-8 and main) CS4398 (like Orpheus)

DACx2 (Headphones) AK4480

ADCx2 (Ins 1-4 - Preamps, line in and Instrument on 1-4 shared) AKM AK5388EQ (Quad AD)

Preamps x4 - PGA2500 like Prism, Apogee and RME

Nothing really compromised on the component side. Much better than I expected actually. Absolutely high end in every way....at least as high end as the Orpheus or Lynx are concerned...loopback transparency test aside (sic)

For those who don't care please forgive me. The geek in me simply couldn't help it.

So Mcgruff ,

With all due respect , so the quality of these parts would appear much higher than the results of your much lauded transparency test.

You are obviously pretty knowledgable about this so I am curious about your sense of this apparent discrepancy ?

Any comments ? I am being sincere in asking you this !

Thx.

Kcat

See the pics if you like.

ua_apollo_quad_inside_-_gear_porn Photo Gallery by Shane Bushman at pbase.com

[mcgruff]

Pretty much what I would have expected. It's a good unit.

I don't see any discrepancy with the test results though. These measure the performance of the complete signal path not just one component.

[miscend]

Originally Posted by Category 5

Popped open the Apollo

DAx5 (1-8 and main) CS4398 (like Orpheus)

DACx2 (Headphones) AK4480

ADCx2 (Ins 1-4 - Preamps, line in and Instrument on 1-4 shared) AKM AK5388EQ (Quad AD)

Preamps x4 - PGA2500 like Prism, Apogee and RME

Nothing really compromised on the component side. Much better than I expected actually. Absolutely high end in every way....at least as high end as the Orpheus or Lynx are concerned...loopback transparency test aside (sic)

For those who don't care please forgive me. The geek in me simply couldn't help it.

See the pics if you like.

http://www.pbase.com/sbushman/ua_apo..._porn&page=all

Thanks for this. So the preamps are exactly the same unit as RME, yet they sound so different.

[Category 5]

Originally Posted by miscend

Thanks for this. So the preamps are exactly the same unit as RME, yet they sound so different.

Actually no. RME uses a double conversion arrangement that gives the preamps a little more headroom and resolution. But they are the same preamp chip. PGA2500 is essentially a digitally controlled preamp on a chip. one of the best. It is the same as used in the Orpheus and Ensemble as well as some others. How the RME differs is in how the conversion is fed and I believe RME's approach to be superior. They manage a bit better dynamic range by multiplexing the duoble conversion stage. That said, PGA2500 is great and stands with the best of the IC based pres. It is a perfect design for such a box and a great choice for the rumored preamp emulations forthcoming.

[MJB]

Cat5, thanks for taking so much time to post all the photos and info!

Since those who are way ahead of me here like the sound from the headphone outs, I'm assuming that means they prefer the AK4480 dac in the headphone outs to the CS4398? I would have thought the dac used for main outs would be of considerably higher quality. How is this so?

I can't figure out why my Apollo's headphone outs aren't working. The meters show input, sound comes out normally from my monitors, but not from my headphones. The last time I sat down ( 4 hours ago),, the headphones were working fine. I had to break for work, so I simply left everything where it was, putting only my screensaver on.

I tried shutting down everything and restarting, same thing....

[Category 5]

Originally Posted by mcgruff

Pretty much what I would have expected. It's a good unit.

I don't see any discrepancy with the test results though. These measure the performance of the complete signal path not just one component.

Well, in that test even the Orpheus tests rather low compared to the top units. However myself and many others expected much less on the component side. UA clearly aimed at Prism and Lynx WRT conversion with the design of this box.

Keep in mind, these converter chips are designed for music production, not audio measurement. It may very well be that some of the best sounding boxes are testing low on that test because they were designed around components designed for musical excellence rather than absolute transparency. Food for thought.

The loopback test is fun and interesting, but it probably isn't the best influence when deciding on a box for making music.

The parts inside the Apollo confirm that the opinions of the owners and what we've been hearing up to now aren't a product of purchase justification or new toy excitement.

Johnkenn...I don't think you have any reason to be remorseful for selling your Symphony for the Apollo. The Symphony may be the better converter (especially on paper), but if you aren't doing classical mastering work I doubt the difference is going to affect you at all (except psychologically! lol).

[Category 5]

Can't remember if I read this or not, but is it normal to be using 11% DSP before you even load the DAW? in other words, is the Apollo consuming 11% DSP by itself with no plugins running?

[method1]

Originally Posted by Category 5

Can't remember if I read this or not, but is it normal to be using 11% DSP before you even load the DAW? in other words, is the Apollo consuming 11% DSP by itself with no plugins running?

Yes, around 10-15% on one of the cores,sometimes a little on a 2nd core. The console itself uses dsp.

Still interested to know if you made note of which caps were used inside the apollo?

[MJB]

My Apollo headphone outs weren't working for anything, even I-tunes. I shut everything down, turned it all back on. There was a prompt from the Console saying the previous session had a 48v switch on and it wasn't on now, do I want to switch it on. On a whim I clicked yes, voila, headphones working again. What the heck does a phantom power switch have to do with listening to anything through Apollo's headphone jacks?

My new mics' serial number is 007. I don't name things, although some of my friends name their motorcycles, cars, guitars. I think I will call my mic double 07 though, it's a chuckle amidst the digital deluge.

[Category 5]

Originally Posted by method1

Yes, around 10-15% on one of the cores,sometimes a little on a 2nd core. The console itself uses dsp.

Still interested to know if you made note of which caps were used inside the apollo?

Some appeared to be of high quality and were 105C rated - Panasonic FC I think. Others as just buffer caps were 85c not a brand I know. I am referring to the electrolytics of course.

Pics are here

ua_apollo_quad_inside_-_gear_porn Photo Gallery by Shane Bushman at pbase.com

[method1]

Originally Posted by Category 5

Some appeared to be of high quality and were 105C rated - Panasonic FC I think. Others as just buffer caps were 85c not a brand I know. I am referring to the electrolytics of course.

Great thanks for the info. Now that you've looked inside, enjoy your new Apollo!

[broadscotch]

Originally Posted by Category 5

Popped open the Apollo

DAx5 (1-8 and main) CS4398 (like Orpheus)

DACx2 (Headphones) AK4480

ADCx2 (Ins 1-4 - Preamps, line in and Instrument on 1-4 shared) AKM AK5388EQ (Quad AD)

Preamps x4 - PGA2500 like Prism, Apogee and RME

Nothing really compromised on the component side. Much better than I expected actually. Absolutely high end in every way....at least as high end as the Orpheus or Lynx are concerned...loopback transparency test aside (sic)

For those who don't care please forgive me. The geek in me simply couldn't help it.

See the pics if you like.

http://www.pbase.com/sbushman/ua_apo..._porn&page=all

Does anyone have any crow lying around? I think there's some folks that need to eat up.

[MJ Heck]

Good evening MJB,
It might be worth checking your manual to see if this applies to the Apollo, but the UAD Satellite specifically states that sleep needs to be disabled. I never waiting around to see what would happen - I just disabled it as soon as I read that. It's possible that could be a source of some of the erratic behavior.

MJH

[MJB]

I does get wonky when I accidentally put my computer to sleep, but I'd left it on, changed nothing, except screen saver.. and my headphone out disappeared.

[Avening]

You have to disable sleep mode. If you have the console open and the computer goes to sleep, you might as well reboot.

[euphoria89]

How do I stop MacBook from sleeping when I close the lid? I've had problems with the unit after a sleep.

[Kcatthedog]

Originally Posted by euphoria89

How do I stop MacBook from sleeping when I close the lid? I've had problems with the unit after a sleep.

Have you checked the avid site system optimization pages for PT on a mac ?

You can turn your sleep default off in your preferences i think!

Kcat

[madehumble]

Classic!!!! This is the best shut the doubters up comeback ever. Me and and the guys who have the Apollo could hear how great it sounded. I bought it and some Dynaudio monitors at the same time and they both put my studio at the level I felt it needed to be. Test are fun to look at but as it has been said a million times on here. Trust your ears not your eyes. Thanks for the pics and everyone enjoy.

Sent from my Desire HD using Gearslutz App

[isma]

Originally Posted by Category 5

Well, in that test even the Orpheus tests rather low compared to the top units. However myself and many others expected much less on the component side. UA clearly aimed at Prism and Lynx WRT conversion with the design of this box.

Keep in mind, these converter chips are designed for music production, not audio measurement. It may very well be that some of the best sounding boxes are testing low on that test because they were designed around components designed for musical excellence rather than absolute transparency. Food for thought.

The loopback test is fun and interesting, but it probably isn't the best influence when deciding on a box for making music.

The parts inside the Apollo confirm that the opinions of the owners and what we've been hearing up to now aren't a product of purchase justification or new toy excitement.

Johnkenn...I don't think you have any reason to be remorseful for selling your Symphony for the Apollo. The Symphony may be the better converter (especially on paper), but if you aren't doing classical mastering work I doubt the difference is going to affect you at all (except psychologically! lol).

cheers...

[cowboycoalminer]

Here's a new mix with the Apollo and all UAD. I used the Studer and the Ampex on the mix buss.

Here is the buss strip in order:

VOG
Manley Massive
UAD Precision De-esser
Studer
Ampex
4K Buss Comp
UAD Precision Limiter

Pretty cool plugs.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/65640533/5-1-5-0.wav

[Billy Buck]

Hey Cowboy,
A great piece of work all the way around. The song (everything starts with the song right), the arrangement, the instrumentation, the vocals, the mix, all the elements are there for a professional sounding product. The mix was done with the Apollo and using all UAD plug-ins, did you record any of the track tracks using the Apollo's inputs or was the Apollo used solely to do the mix using existing tracks? I see the wave file is 32/44, is this the format you typically work/record in?

Cheers,

Billy Buck

[psychonaut4]

Cowboy your killing me. I think i am now an official fan of Country. Great work!

[cowboycoalminer]

Originally Posted by Billy Buck

Hey Cowboy,
A great piece of work all the way around. The song (everything starts with the song right), the arrangement, the instrumentation, the vocals, the mix, all the elements are there for a professional sounding product. The mix was done with the Apollo and using all UAD plug-ins, did you record any of the track tracks using the Apollo's inputs or was the Apollo used solely to do the mix using existing tracks? I see the wave file is 32/44, is this the format you typically work/record in?

Cheers,

Billy Buck

BB, 44/32 yes. I used the Apollo line inputs to record several stems on this using out board pres. That is not to say the onboard pres are not good enough,(I posted a mix earlier using only a couple of cheap mics and Apollo pres with good results) I am just used to knowing what to reach for with my old faithfuls. And to be fair I did use my desk strips as throughs for the recording to get some tranny love and eq.

Originally Posted by psychonaut4

Cowboy your killing me. I think i am now an official fan of Country. Great work!

Thanks, Bro. Country can be good.

[Kcatthedog]

Originally Posted by cowboycoalminer

Here's a new mix with the Apollo and all UAD. I used the Studer and the Ampex on the mix buss.

Here is the buss strip in order:

VOG
Manley Massive
UAD Precision De-esser
Studer
Ampex
4K Buss Comp
UAD Precision Limiter

Pretty cool plugs.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/65640533/5-1-5-0.wav

Hey Cowboy,

as a song writer let me just compliment you

I really love the way you construct your songs, how it/they drives along and builds and ebbs; really love the build just b4 the solo: excellent !

other first thought, the production is excellent, but I recall someone commenting earlier about a lack of depth in the soundstage in the apollo recordings here

I know my monitors are a little lower mid rangy (mackie hr 624s) but I thought this was your best recording here so far, (and that is taking nothing away from your earlier ones ) with more space and depth and soundstage, especially noticeable as you move the instruments (guitar solos, man u sure can play !) around in the mix !

If that is the new mike you were trying out again lots of tone !

Its almost like the UA stuff in the rights hands gives us a hybrid between ITB and OTB. This mix to me sounds very nicely sonically in-between the last two mixes you posted with your daughter , you know the analogue one and the itb one.

Thx for posting and letting us know what you had on the mix busses we hadn't heard from you for a few days I figured something was coming !!!


p.s r u using the studer as a channel insert or just on the buss ?

kcat

[cowboycoalminer]

My production schedule has been very heavy lately, been doing nothing but tracking and mixing. This tune has already been sent to market along with many others from this week. I did make time early in the week to rearrange some outboard to incorporate with this thing(what a birds nest).

[Johnkenn]

Nice job, cowboy!

I've got one that I'm tweaking that was all done on the Apollo...I'll post when I get upstairs. I have to say - I've got a Sta-level that I always track and mix with and the Apollo has really got me thinking about selling it. I've tracked a few vocals with an LA2A inserted on the Apollo, and it's excellent. The Sta definitely adds a low mid resonance and a little sheen on top, but sometimes it can be too much. If UA updated their LA2A the way they did the 1176's, it would be a no-brainier. I've gotten to where I like to track with a compressor less because of color and more because of performance during the take. So, if a plugin compressor can do that job on the way in, I'm wondering why I've invested so much in outboard. The "grab" or attack is where - to me - plugin compressors have been lacking, but the 1176's really solve that and surprisingly, the old LA2A does really well too.

I know some people have been concerned with the supposed mid-rangeyness of the Apollo, but since I've gotten my Focals, I haven't had a problem with any harshness in my mixes. In fact, it's been the opposite. I'll post this in a little while...

[Johnkenn]

Originally Posted by cowboycoalminer

I did make time early in the week to rearrange some outboard to incorporate with this thing(what a birds nest).

Yeah - I just got a Hearback monitoring system and have it connected via ADAT. One tiny little cable routing 8 outs! Less chance of a fire, I guess!

[Category 5]

Man I'm having an affair with the Fatso. You can put it on an insert on the way in and it's as close to a preamp emulation as I've heard. It can practically add a tube and transformer to the built in mic pres on this thing.

Can't decide whether I like the EMT or the Lexicon better. The EMT seems to have this buttery smooth quality to it while the lexicon sounds a hair grainier but maybe a bit more mainstream. Considering they are both vintage I'm blown away by how well they hold up.

Had the EMT 140 since the UAD1 days so that's an old friend.

I have to find a way to like either the EMT or Lex better than the other so I don't get suckered into getting both.

I, like many, had thought native plugins really had caught up but I'm thinking UA has the upper hand again, at least with some of these newer emulations. It's just ridiculous how good they sound.