UA Apollo First Look (user review)

[Kcatthedog]

@besotedly

I almost bought some too but shipping from zenn to Canada didn't make sense. I agree with Cowboy the modded speakers will be nice i returned my unmoddd ones.

One thought , if you are a fan of ribbon tweaters, not everyone is, the new Adam 7fs are hitting the market now retail 7-8 a pair.

I don't recall you commenting on what type of monitors you appreciate.

Kcat

[Besottedly]

@Kcat I asked Warhead about that and he said that for the price there is no contest. The yamaha's outperform. He let go of his higher end pairs that were over twice the price for the moded yamaha's.

[Ragan]

Hey guys. I've been thoroughly enjoying my Apollo as well as the people in this thread and the various things they're working on. So I thought I'd share something I'm working on. This is for a solo record. After years of hitting it hard with a band, I'm doing this record almost as therapy for myself. I have no idea what I'll do with it, don't care, am writing the material as I track it and am not concerned about anything other than fulfilling myself (hence the material being kinda crazy) It's me on everything.

[IamJohnGalt]

Nice work. Its liberating to do your own thing isnt it? Only listened through the headphones on my phone but will give more feedback when at my desk.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

[Kcatthedog]

Originally Posted by Besottedly

@Kcat I asked Warhead about that and he said that for the price there is no contest. The yamaha's outperform. He let go of his higher end pairs that were over twice the price for the moded yamaha's.

Warren knows what he is talking about, I would take his recommendations with confidence, but it would be best if you could hear them first.

I am not trying to talk you one way or the other you asked for opinions

I auditioned about 10 different monitors over 3 months and settled on the adams and I am very happy with them but different strokes etc..

Kcat

[cowboycoalminer]

Originally Posted by Ragan

Hey guys. I've been thoroughly enjoying my Apollo as well as the people in this thread and the various things they're working on. So I thought I'd share something I'm working on. This is for a solo record. After years of hitting it hard with a band, I'm doing this record almost as therapy for myself. I have no idea what I'll do with it, don't care, am writing the material as I track it and am not concerned about anything other than fulfilling myself (hence the material being kinda crazy) It's me on everything.

This is a great tune and very well written. The recording is solid too. It really comes into it's stride on the chorus. Your talent shows up here. I know you said this tune is for you and if that's all you ever do with it that's great. But it's a tune that others can enjoy for sure. On the songwriting side, I could pass along a tip that was passed along to me from a very heavy hitter in Nashville's songwriter community. Kinna goes like this: "If you trying to pitch a song, try every way you can to hit the chorus by 0:45. If you don't your just about guaranteed that it will be the last song of yours they listen to in that reviewing session". That makes perfect sense to me. Were all busy and self absorbed; I'm the same way. If a song doesn't catch my attention within the first few seconds, I'm done. I did listen to yours all the way through because we are all in this thread together to learn from each other. To be honest though, the first time I hit play, I skipped and found the first verse. The long intro did me in. I went back and listened later but if I hadn't known you I probably would have skipped over the song entirely and MISSED OUT on a great song. Goes back to my friends advise of get to the point quick and hook em'. We've all heard the piano part Duh Duh Duh on an intro a million times. Old hat. What we have never heard is how YOU turn a phrase, and your good at it. We haven't heard how your voice stacks so nicely on the chorus. Those things are what keeps us listening. I'm reminded of my college creative writing professor who told me time and time again to condense my ten page drivel into one page, or better still, a paragraph.

Please don't take me as a know it all guys!! I love to learn and when I do, I love passing it on!!

Great song Bro and well executed

[Ragan]

Originally Posted by cowboycoalminer

This is a great tune and very well written. The recording is solid too. It really comes into it's stride on the chorus. Your talent shows up here. I know you said this tune is for you and if that's all you ever do with it that's great. But it's a tune that others can enjoy for sure. On the songwriting side, I could pass along a tip that was passed along to me from a very heavy hitter in Nashville's songwriter community. Kinna goes like this: "If you trying to pitch a song, try every way you can to hit the chorus by 0:45. If you don't your just about guaranteed that it will be the last song of yours they listen to in that reviewing session". That makes perfect sense to me. Were all busy and self absorbed; I'm the same way. If a song doesn't catch my attention within the first few seconds, I'm done. I did listen to yours all the way through because we are all in this thread together to learn from each other. To be honest though, the first time I hit play, I skipped and found the first verse. The long intro did me in. I went back and listened later but if I hadn't known you I probably would have skipped over the song entirely and MISSED OUT on a great song. Goes back to my friends advise of get to the point quick and hook em'. We've all heard the piano part Duh Duh Duh on an intro a million times. Old hat. What we have never heard is how YOU turn a phrase, and your good at it. We haven't heard how your voice stacks so nicely on the chorus. Those things are what keeps us listening. I'm reminded of my college creative writing professor who told me time and time again to condense my ten page drivel into one page, or better still, a paragraph.

Please don't take me as a know it all guys!! I love to learn and when I do, I love passing it on!!

Great song Bro and well executed

Right on. Thanks. Appreciate you taking the time.

It's totally a wandering song that's too bloated. I'm just in that mood lately. And I'm also still arranging it. In the intro and outro, I just vamped for awhile. Later, when I sort out whats gonna be before and after it, I'll cut it up and decide how I want it to begin and end. I'm doing this whole record (it's actually going to be two records, one being lighter and one being heavier) different than I've done before. Lots of tracking in the moment and rearranging many times.
I spent the better part of the last 10 years writing and performing riffy, rock stuff that I cut down and made a lot more accessible, which I agree is generally the way to go. I'm a guy who enjoys a good two minute Beatles tune but I also regularly throw on and crank Jethro Tull "Thick As a Brick" too.
Right now I'm just tracking this stuff quickly and excitedly with no goals in mind. Feels great.

Thanks for the input!

[Kcatthedog]

@ragan listened all the way through and that is impressive; you got talent !

at the same time, I understand the constructive challenge cowboy is putting to you and I say constructive respectfully to you and he both as artists

So let me ask you what is the song about for you: a sonic palate, self expression, who is the audience ?

I am all for self expression My heading comes from the great american writer William Faulkner who used that expression to refer to editing the hell out of everything he wrote the night before.

So I am suggesting you put it away for a while and listen to it with some fresh ears and see how you respond to it.

I don't mean any of this negatively. I enjoyed the song, loved how you nailed those vocals near the end!!. With your creativity and musicality, I am sincerely curious what else you might choose to do with it ?

kcat

[Kcatthedog]

Hey,

Sorry for the delay in listening !

Not certain if you are looking for comments on the recording quality or on its musicality or your performance ?

I appreciated how there is a variety of techniques employed when playing the piece and that you kept the song in tempo but still played to natural time; it was musical

again not certain what tone you are going for;different acoustics guitars naturally have different voices and it sounds like you play with the flesh of your fingers not so much with nails so you naturally have a full yet mid sound or that may be a function of how you are recording it.

Closer miking well give you more transients but you would need to be careful aiming mikes at the sound hole as this will get boomy.

the other songs sound lovely and are very well played so is it mike technique you are mostly interested in ?

next time come in real close like cowboy suggested but be careful for proximity affect and see how much depth, 3d and clarity you can achieve but don't spread it out too much !

kcat

[cowboycoalminer]

@ JG

Just now realized you posted a revision. And here's my thought. NOW your talkin'. Brilliant recording. Still gets to the sides without spinning the head around to hear it. This is actually the very position I strive for when accompanying a vocal. A tad off center (here to the left) and wide to both sides. It's phase acurate and solid. A+ work

[Ragan]

Originally Posted by Kcatthedog

@ragan listened all the way through and that is impressive; you got talent !

at the same time, I understand the constructive challenge cowboy is putting to you and I say constructive respectfully to you and he both as artists

So let me ask you what is the song about for you: a sonic palate, self expression, who is the audience ?

I am all for self expression My heading comes from the great american writer William Faulkner who used that expression to refer to editing the hell out of everything he wrote the night before.

So I am suggesting you put it away for a while and listen to it with some fresh ears and see how you respond to it.

I don't mean any of this negatively. I enjoyed the song, loved how you nailed those vocals near the end!!. With your creativity and musicality, I am sincerely curious what else you might choose to do with it ?

kcat

Thanks much!

At this point, the song (and whole project) is just about pleasing myself. As a teenager, I used to spend forever writing/recording weird stuff with my Tascam cassette 4-track. It was some of the most enjoyable music-maing I've ever done. I'm trying to dip back into that spirit a little.
One of the things I'm most smitten with on the Apollo is the tracking with UAD plugs. I find it so much more inspiring to dial up a sound and actually perform with it than it is to just record clean and choose the sonic vibe later. I've been printing all kinds of stuff too. All my heroes made records with a handful of tracks and had to have the balls to commit to a sound and track it. I'm finding that very refreshing about working with the Apollo (obviously you don't have to do that, I just like it). If I want a 70s tight vox slap on the song, I dial it up and sing through it. If I decide it's wrong later, I'll just have to retrack it. If I can't consistently get good takes of something, what the hell am I doing? Time to practice more.
I'm also trying to comp things/punch stuff less. Doing whole vocal takes when I can. Focusing more on the inspiration and less on technical/editing expediency. The workflow of the Apollo has brought that out for some reason for me. Funny that something so new and cutting edge would inspire such an old-school workflow for me, but that's how it's working out as of now.

Anyway, thanks for the thoughts!

[Ragan]

Originally Posted by IamJohnGalt

Nice work. Its liberating to do your own thing isnt it? Only listened through the headphones on my phone but will give more feedback when at my desk.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

Thanks and yes!

Especially when you've spent years writing collaboratively (something I'm sure I'll fall back in love with at some point) and having the requisite 2 hour arguments about a subtle change in some groove that ultimately comes down to hopelessly subjective tastes but where each person feels that if they can just explain why dotted 8ths are more appropriate for that fill, the song will work perfectly and the world will be as one.

Nice to just make decisions quickly and not get mired in the interpersonal for a change.

[IamJohnGalt]

Originally Posted by Ragan

Thanks much!

At this point, the song (and whole project) is just about pleasing myself. As a teenager, I used to spend forever writing/recording weird stuff with my Tascam cassette 4-track. It was some of the most enjoyable music-maing I've ever done. I'm trying to dip back into that spirit a little.

Word

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[cowboycoalminer]

Originally Posted by Lolo22

@Cowboy. Do you still aim for -15 on individual tracks after processing them? Say after eq, compression , distortion etc....?
Thanks in advance

No not really. I'm not trying to amp them per say but they will climb a bit with processing. Nature of the beast. When I print, I like for my digital reference to be hitting the console around-12 or so. If need be, I can always trim the line drivers back but usually don't. -12 is way plenty of headroom for mastering. The reason I like to print at this level is I get some nice analog gain back with the buss eq and comp. Usually brings me up to around -8 or so which is IMO, perfect for a limiter on the end. Again, we are talking averages here and not peaks. Big difference. The music is going to breath. I don't let that bother me.

[Kcatthedog]

Ok I admit maybe this is obvious, so in protools i see the horizontal dash showing the signal peak, but music naturally increases and decreases in volume, so Cowboy are you just eyeballing the averages or can one set ones metres to show peaks and averages ?

I guess i have been watching levels bounce around and never wondered other than the peak what it was demonstrating exactly ?

Kcat

[MJB]

Regan, that's some serious s&it your working on! I hear some Iggy in the vocals, a little Bowie/Queen in the guitars, but when that chorus hits, your golden dude. Chop that thing when your ready, and it's a done deal. Sounds like you went to the Tony Visconti School of recording, many, many interesting things are happening. Good luck with this.

John Gault, I have the little 5" Yamaha's, I like the Adam A7's. but couldn't afford them. Occasionally, I thought I should at least upgrade to the 8" Yammies. So, you've heard both and prefer the 5" with the sub? I might have to start looking around on Craigslist for someone off loading that sub cheap.

ReLab says I can get the upgrade from the Lite demo to the complete instead of dumping it and starting over. I'm thinking on it.. They say I can have the complete, AND he will OK me keeping the Lite as well, as it's different, and I did use it on some projects. Can anyone here think of why I might want that, or is it redundant, and just plug-in clutter?

[Kcatthedog]

@mjb what does it matter ? Sounds like they are two different files as the light is a misnomer it is a fully functional version of one the reverbs it suggest you could load it and the heavy relab verbs on the same track but not certain why you would do that ?

Guess all of relab is just not in one file ? ?

Kcat

[IamJohnGalt]

Originally Posted by cowboycoalminer

@ JG

Just now realized you posted a revision. And here's my thought. NOW your talkin'. Brilliant recording. Still gets to the sides without spinning the head around to hear it. This is actually the very position I strive for when accompanying a vocal. A tad off center (here to the left) and wide to both sides. It's phase acurate and solid. A+ work

Thanks man....I appreciate the feedback.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

[cowboycoalminer]

Originally Posted by Kcatthedog

Ok I admit maybe this is obvious, so in protools i see the horizontal dash showing the signal peak, but music naturally increases and decreases in volume, so Cowboy are you just eyeballing the averages or can one set ones metres to show peaks and averages ?

I guess i have been watching levels bounce around and never wondered other than the peak what it was demonstrating exactly ?

Kcat

Yeah I just eyeball it, Kcat. I don't figure there is a use to get too clinical about it. In ProTools, the meters going into the yellow (that's around -15) is what I'm looking for. Tracking the same. I'd like to stay below that while tracking but I don't freak out if a hit goes into the yellow. Same with mixing. The average stays below in the green and that's plenty good. To me it's all about headroom. Not just for analog mixing but ITB as well. Plugins react the same to gain as do analog devises. I can't count the times I've seen sessions that folks sent with plugins clipping the input stage. Umm, that's bad. Real bad. It would be the same as overdriving it's analog counterpart into distortion. And were not talking about good harmonic distortion here, it's the kind that leaves part of the signal missing because we run out of numbers. Plug ins are written to run with headroom same as anything else. Thats the only point I was trying to make. Leaving ourselves plenty of room to work.

I finished the secondary mix on this one tonight. I'll probably put a steel part on it but it's pretty close. Proud of my girl on this one!

Oh, and you'll like this. I did this one in ProTools for some reason. Don't know why, just did.

[Ragan]

Originally Posted by MJB

Regan, that's some serious s&it your working on! I hear some Iggy in the vocals, a little Bowie/Queen in the guitars, but when that chorus hits, your golden dude. Chop that thing when your ready, and it's a done deal. Sounds like you went to the Tony Visconti School of recording, many, many interesting things are happening. Good luck with this.

Wow. Thanks so much.

[Kcatthedog]

Originally Posted by cowboycoalminer

Oh, and you'll like this. I did this one in ProTools for some reason. Don't know why, just did.

Cus only pros use protools right

Kcat

[MJB]

cowboy, it sounds great. so well balanced, has a great forward thrust, with an energy/spark in the air, like the Doors' Riders on the Storm If you do pedal steel, keep it subtle, there's plenty going on already, (not that you need me to tell you that). I can hear harmony on a couple of lines.

kcat, I can't think of why I'd need the XL480 complete AND the Lite version either, can anyone else here think of a reason to have two of the same basic verbs?

I gotta get busy with choosing my UAD plugs. The Shadow Hills is the only must have so far. Cowboy, do you use the Massive Passive regularly?

[bkb911T]

Ragan,

Awesome recording. I'm on the fence about purchasing the apollo, but after hearing your sound I think I've made my mind up. There have been some excellent recordings on in this thread, but most are a little to commercial for my style of music. Your recording seemed to have the rawness I was hoping to hear from these "vintage" plugins UA is know for. Would you mind providing some insight into your signal chain and which plugins you are using. Thanks.

[Kcatthedog]

@bkb911t

Ya very cool to hear some different tracking through the apollo. Not certain if you know but if you load your plugs in console to track you can store that session and call it back up. So even if you are experimenting and throwing things up comitting and tracking, you can save all of that and recall. The music posted over the last few pages sure underscores how versitile: apollo, ua plugs and the workflow is !

Hope you grab an apollo while the current plug deal is on !

Kcat

[bkb911T]

I think I'm going to pull the trigger on a Quad tomorrow ($2349 with free shipping). I'd be spending the extra $ anyway on the Studer plugin if I got the Duo.

[Ragan]

Originally Posted by bkb911T

Ragan,

Awesome recording. I'm on the fence about purchasing the apollo, but after hearing your sound I think I've made my mind up. There have been some excellent recordings on in this thread, but most are a little to commercial for my style of music. Your recording seemed to have the rawness I was hoping to hear from these "vintage" plugins UA is know for. Would you mind providing some insight into your signal chain and which plugins you are using. Thanks.

Thanks. Love to.

I find the UAD plugs to be the most solid, 3D plugs I've used. I really think they're great.

So what I've been doing is getting my mics where I want for the source and recording it dry. Then I'll loop it or something and start trying processing. Since I'm recording myself, this is as close to control-rooming myself as I can get. I dial up the sound, then copy the settings to the UA Console and track through em.
Anyway. I've been running most things through the Studer. On vocals, I've been compressing a bit during tracking with the 1176 AE or Rev A and sometimes EQing with the Harrison EQ. I like to track bass through the Fatso.

[Ragan]

Oh and as far as signal chain, vox on that track was an SM7b through a GAP Pre73. Guitars were a 57 and Fathead Lundahl on a Dr Z M12, a few different guitars. Drums were a mono OH (RE20), 414b-ULS on kick, Sennheiser 441 on snare.
Kick was through an LA610. Others were Apollo pres (which I like).
I should say, those are placeholder drums. I just tracked them to write the part. I'm going to track the finals in some bigger rooms I have access to later. My room is small.

[LGK_Dude]

Anyone using a FW800 repeater? If so which one are you using? Are you able to run two 15 foot cables, even though FW800 spec is like 14.75 feet, or should I go with two 10 foot cables + repeater?

[Besottedly]

@Cowboy
I always admire your fiddle tracking. Can you help me understand how you don't get that harshness I've encountered on the violin, please? Please pretty please!

[andersmv]

Great thread everyone, thanks for sharing. I've been thinking about getting one of these to track at home and having it racked up with a Mac mini to do mobile work. One thing I'm wondering about is if I can treat this as an outboard compressor when I'm working at other studios? For instance, can I have it plugged into the Mac mini, load up the console program and load up 1176's on 8 channels and patch into input one and out of output one into a ProTools HD system at the studio? That would be amazing!