Using the Allen&Heath Mix Wizard for faders with Fulcrom and other preamp for make up

Jason Poulin · 18th May 2006

Hey folks,

I have a question for those who kinda are in the same situation as me. I'm new the the summing thing but was very curious and decided to get a Fulcrom.

The only thing I dislike is the fact that there are no faders, and if I insert a comp or eq it would be post fader processing which is not my style.

I was looking at the A&H mix wizard 16:2 to use for it's faders only... line in and then direct out to the Fulcrom then to another pre for the make up gain.

So... does anyone work like this? How is it? Do you notice any problems by running the signal through a channel strip then out to the summing box?

Thanks

Jason

Tom H · 18th May 2006

Don't know but i wonder since i'm kind of in the same boat..

I would guess you get better or even results with summing within the Allen & Heath with something good on the stereo buss, like Portico tape emu or compression, or whatever you like.

let me explain...
A reason not to mix on a live desk like A&H is probably the slightly higher noise level right?
If you take multiple channels out of the A&H and sum it in a folcrom you would have a certain db drop and need to reamp it.
Now if this slightly higher noise is up in those channels you're gonna amplify that now too..

I guess this wouldn't be all that bad but i think the best way to connect to a focrom would be direct from your converters.

my 2cents

I do think A&H makes nice mixers by the way.

u b k · 19th May 2006

i have a console with a sweet summing bus but i still feed each channel's direct out to a nicerizer for summing because it's even sweeter. i have to have an analog fader and eq for the critical elements in a mix.

the only problem i get by running each sound thru a channel strip is that it sounds better, which means i want to do it for every sound, but i don't have enough channels on the desk

.

life is tough.

gregoire
del ubik

dim light · 19th May 2006

Hey sounds like a cool idea! Use the direct outs from the A&H in to the Folcrom -> Preamp / Comp / Limiter/ EQ/ etc -> AD -> Love

I think the EQ on the A&H is pretty good. Sounds like a winning concept!

Tom H · 19th May 2006

I was just reading my own reply about this and all of a sudden it doesn't make that much sense

But well now i'm getting really curious of course!

I have this Soundcraft fx 16 mixer of wich i like the eq, so if i connect the direct outs to a Folcrom and good pre would this be a major upgrade as far as summing concerns?

Jason Poulin · 19th May 2006

my only concern is the extra noise level in the signal path.

with headphones, when you bring up the fader, you'll notice an increase in noise.

I don't know about this...

Anyone working like this?

Jason

Kenny Gioia · 19th May 2006

I see a whole new market.

Individual channelstrips.

I can buy 4 Neve strips, 4 API strips, 4 SSL Strips etc.

Watcha think?

dim light · 19th May 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Poulin

my only concern is the extra noise level in the signal path.
with headphones, when you bring up the fader, you'll notice an increase in noise.

Jason

Man don't be to concerned about a the noise - If you come out from the direct outs you will be fine as a bird. The noise will glue and verbalizer the ride into a bold decision MC Hammer style!

Don't be a nerd when it comes to noise - it's funky! Concentrate on the vibe!

You rock Canadian master! Save for a mustache and don't wait for the sunshine.

Jason Poulin · 20th May 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by dim light

Man don't be to concerned about a the noise - If you come out from the direct outs you will be fine as a bird. The noise will glue and verbalizer the ride into a bold decision MC Hammer style!

Don't be a nerd when it comes to noise - it's funky! Concentrate on the vibe!

You rock Canadian master! Save for a mustache and don't wait for the sunshine.

lol

thanks man

Jason

stellar · 28th June 2006

so, any luck here?

warhead · 28th June 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by dim light

You rock Canadian master! Save for a mustache and don't wait for the sunshine.

Dim Light, you gotta get CocaKurtCola here.

War

JB872 · 21st July 2006

Jason, I've come across the same problem and was wondering what you went with in the end? I've been thinking about picking up some Penny and Giles faders and building my own system but someone here on GS said there's too much signal loss with a passive fader. If I have a Folcrom and a preamp following the fader for MG, is signal loss even an issue?

Helsing · 22nd July 2006

I think the idea of using the Allen and Heath with direct outs is a good idea. Using passive potentiometers, as another poster suggested, will work, but I think an actively buffered fader (eg AH) is ultimately the better route. Id set the AH line trims at unity and bypass the AH EQ whenever possible. Also bypass any unused channels on the AH if it has that ability.

The Folcrom can be used in a lot of different ways, many of which are just be implemented for the first time. Experimentation is good

Jon Erickson

18th May 2006	#1
Jason Poulin Lives for gear Joined: Sep 2003 Location: Sudbury, On. Canada Posts: 1,780 Thread Starter	Using mixer for faders and then summing to Folcrom with preamp... who works this way? Hey folks, I have a question for those who kinda are in the same situation as me. I'm new the the summing thing but was very curious and decided to get a Fulcrom. The only thing I dislike is the fact that there are no faders, and if I insert a comp or eq it would be post fader processing which is not my style. I was looking at the A&H mix wizard 16:2 to use for it's faders only... line in and then direct out to the Fulcrom then to another pre for the make up gain. So... does anyone work like this? How is it? Do you notice any problems by running the signal through a channel strip then out to the summing box? Thanks Jason __________________ If it don't sound like a record... don't press record

19th May 2006	#4
dim light Lives for gear Joined: Dec 2003 Location: China Posts: 2,336	Hey sounds like a cool idea! Use the direct outs from the A&H in to the Folcrom -> Preamp / Comp / Limiter/ EQ/ etc -> AD -> Love I think the EQ on the A&H is pretty good. Sounds like a winning concept! __________________ Moderators you can't kill my art!

19th May 2006	#7
Kenny Gioia Lives for gear Joined: Jul 2002 Location: NYC Posts: 8,523	I see a whole new market. Individual channelstrips. I can buy 4 Neve strips, 4 API strips, 4 SSL Strips etc. Watcha think? __________________ It's a journey. Not a destination. Enjoy yours.

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18th May 2006	#2
Tom H Lives for gear Joined: Apr 2006 Location: Haarlem, Holland Posts: 1,387	Don't know but i wonder since i'm kind of in the same boat.. I would guess you get better or even results with summing within the Allen & Heath with something good on the stereo buss, like Portico tape emu or compression, or whatever you like. let me explain... A reason not to mix on a live desk like A&H is probably the slightly higher noise level right? If you take multiple channels out of the A&H and sum it in a folcrom you would have a certain db drop and need to reamp it. Now if this slightly higher noise is up in those channels you're gonna amplify that now too.. I guess this wouldn't be all that bad but i think the best way to connect to a focrom would be direct from your converters. my 2cents I do think A&H makes nice mixers by the way.

19th May 2006	#3
u b k Gear Guru Joined: Oct 2004 Location: The Land of Sunshine Posts: 11,297	i have a console with a sweet summing bus but i still feed each channel's direct out to a nicerizer for summing because it's even sweeter. i have to have an analog fader and eq for the critical elements in a mix. the only problem i get by running each sound thru a channel strip is that it sounds better, which means i want to do it for every sound, but i don't have enough channels on the desk . life is tough. gregoire del ubik

28th June 2006	#10
stellar Lives for gear Joined: Jan 2006 Posts: 1,035	so, any luck here?

21st July 2006	#12
JB872 Lives for gear Joined: Dec 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,100	Jason, I've come across the same problem and was wondering what you went with in the end? I've been thinking about picking up some Penny and Giles faders and building my own system but someone here on GS said there's too much signal loss with a passive fader. If I have a Folcrom and a preamp following the fader for MG, is signal loss even an issue?

22nd July 2006	#13
Helsing Gear maniac Joined: Nov 2003 Location: San Diego Posts: 261	I think the idea of using the Allen and Heath with direct outs is a good idea. Using passive potentiometers, as another poster suggested, will work, but I think an actively buffered fader (eg AH) is ultimately the better route. Id set the AH line trims at unity and bypass the AH EQ whenever possible. Also bypass any unused channels on the AH if it has that ability. The Folcrom can be used in a lot of different ways, many of which are just be implemented for the first time. Experimentation is good Jon Erickson