Kids prefer vinyl - loudness war responsible?

[living sounds]

"In yet another turnaround, teens overwhelmingly insisted the sound quality of LPs was superior to that of modern formats. They characterized LPs and the LP artists of the past as more authentic than the barrage of youth-oriented music being aggressively marketed to them today. "


That's due to the loudness war as well as excessive autotuning, editing and TV-show-casting IMO.

http://www.physorg.com/news64807495.html

[max cooper]

I think it's a great sign, and I've noticed the same thing, but I'm a little hesitant to attribute it to the sound.

I think there's a hipness factor in there too. If you look at the latest Urban Outfitters catalog, there are pictures of models with record players, and they're not DJ rigs, either.

Hot Topic (the "punk" store at the mall [gee, that's a contradiction in terms if I ever heard one!]) sells LP's.

I think a lot of kids have heard that vinyl sounds better, and there's an element of embracing things with a vintage aesthetic.

Either way, the powers that be at major record labels seem to be paying attention, as I've been able to find more and more new releases on LP.

Another thing that I have to think about the major labels releasing things on LP's is that an LP jacket is more than five times larger than a cd cover. It's possible that they see an LP on display in a store as another way to make the product more visible. It's like signage. I know the numbers of LP's pressed for even big releases by major artists are small. I heard there were 5000 copies of the latest Foo Fighters on LP.

Hey, any news is good news!

[AlexLakis]

Perhaps it's due to the fact that they were...more authentic?

New artists release vinyl too...Do they think that sounds better as well?

[Tibbon]

I think that my Mono copy of Velvet Underground's Nico album is FAR superior than the stereo CD mix anyday.

And until I have some Lavry or at least Benchmark convertors for my system, Dark Side of the Moon is 10x better on vinyl than on CD.

[max cooper]

Originally Posted by AlexLakis

Perhaps it's due to the fact that they were...more authentic?

New artists release vinyl too...Do they think that sounds better as well?

Yeah, I've had this discussion a few times. I don't know what the kids think, but I know what I think.

I've done a few direct comparisons between new releases on LP and CD. I've used a couple of different turntables; a Michell Gyrodec SE and a lowly Rega P3, both with a Dynavector MC 10x4 pickup. The CD's were played back thru a Linn Karik/Numerik, or from Pro Tools thru a Benchmark D/A or a Rosetta 800.

In the case of the Rega, it's not as high-end of a playback device, so I was really expecting it to lose.

The vinyl was usually better than the CD. This is on newly recorded albums that were sometimes made with Pro Tools (DDA, I guess). I can't imagine how this could be, and I was totally ready for the CD to be better. CD players are easier to use and maintain.

I remember Paul Gold had an idea or two about why the LP is still better when the recording is digital, but I don't remember exactly and I don't want to quote him incorrectly.

The most fun thing about vinyl, to me, is coming home from a record convention with fifty LP's for $100 to $200. I don't have as much fun buying $200 worth of CD's.

To each his own. I've heard some really good sounding DVD-Audio disks, but the number of titles is pretty small, and I don't feel like chasing a new format only to have it die.

[robot gigante]

Originally Posted by AlexLakis

Perhaps it's due to the fact that they were...more authentic?

New artists release vinyl too...Do they think that sounds better as well?

I think that new releases sound better on vinyl- it's a good way of getting music that is not squashed- for example the new McCartney CD release was limited pretty bad but the vinyl release isn't.

I think the 'hipness' factor of vinyl is definitely an issue, but I think we should give the kids more credit than that- all the vinyl junkies I know (most in their early 20's) claim to hear a difference in sound and that goes for new releases as well as old ones.

I also see this turn of events as positive- at least the kids who buy vinyl are starting to pay attention to sound quality rather than the convenience of a CD or mp3 files.

[wwittman]

preferring higher quality is not a matter of "loudness wars"

[AlexLakis]

Yeah, I think that LPs just have a more personable appeal than CDs. There's more raw material there. More substance. It does have a unique appeal, most of which may be "mythological."

I agree with the "takes up more space on the shelf" thing too. You can fit a boatload of artwork in there as well! Just imagine how many near-nude pics of Shakira standing next to a tree you could stuff in!

I've actually been buying more vinyl recently. Bad Religion's "The Empire Strikes First," Green Day's "American Idiot," Probot's album...one thing that irritates me, tho, is this huuuge price increase for "multiple record" albums. American Idiot was $24 because it was on two records! It's not like it's a double album or anything! Foo Fighters was $35!! I mean, vinyl obviously isn't dead if they're charging those kinda prices and people are paying them...

[Benmrx]

Perhaps it's due to the fact that they were...more authentic?

New artists release vinyl too...Do they think that sounds better as well?

There's plenty of good authentic music going on, and plenty of great sounding vinyl records that are still being released that kids love........is it the current pop culture trend?

nope?

will it be?

yup!

The kids will always go against what ever is shoved down their throats, it's nature

At least in my neck of the indie-rock world, the music is taking a pretty sharp turn away from programmed beats (ala postal service) and big production (ala dave fridman), and going much more organic. This new project I'm currently working on is pretty "everly bros." inspired, and these are kids in their mid 20's..............mid 20's are still kids in my book, or else that would mean I ain't a kid no more, and I can't have that.

[JohnNy C]

As I am personally a user of vinyl still, I would have to say the low-end on vinyl just seems deeper compared to the "coldness" if you will, of digital formats. Alot of top name DJs have switched to CDs but the vinyl is still holding strong in the House/Trance scene and I don't think will die for quite some time to come.

[Mike Caffrey]

If there was some kind of swing back to vinyl and labels re-released their catalogs on vinyl, can you imaging how new digital recording would fare when A/B'd on vinyl against old analog recordings?

[joshelevator]

Vinyl sounds better to me. As far as kids loving it, it wouldn't be a volume thing. Record volume and cd volume can both be loud and are completely different although cutting loud to vinyl does give a certain compressed sound. That sound is more for the underground DJ scene which is always all about vinyl (don't show up at a big gig with final scratch). As far as its continuing popularity with non-dj/collector folks, , its probably a hip vintage thing and im sure everyone enjoys appreciating the artwork which is hard to dig on a cd or download. if we (vinyl junkies) are lucky, its actually because people are realizing how good vinyl sounds. either way, im happy-more vinyl!

[Tibbon]

Originally Posted by AlexLakis

Yeah, I think that LPs just have a more personable appeal than CDs. There's more raw material there. More substance. It does have a unique appeal, most of which may be "mythological."

I agree with the "takes up more space on the shelf" thing too. You can fit a boatload of artwork in there as well! Just imagine how many near-nude pics of Shakira standing next to a tree you could stuff in!

I've actually been buying more vinyl recently. Bad Religion's "The Empire Strikes First," Green Day's "American Idiot," Probot's album...one thing that irritates me, tho, is this huuuge price increase for "multiple record" albums. American Idiot was $24 because it was on two records! It's not like it's a double album or anything! Foo Fighters was $35!! I mean, vinyl obviously isn't dead if they're charging those kinda prices and people are paying them...

the only thing that i could see is with a lesser demand for vinyl, that the costs at pressing, mastering and distributing it are much higher. Record stores aren't as used to handling it these days, and i'm sure that for various reasons there's higher breakage than back in the day, when that's all they had.

At the same time from a marketing perspective, some people will always buy the more expensive thing, because they assume it's better simply because it costs more and they say so *cough... monster cable*

[synapse]

Breaking News:

4 out of 5 cavemen prefer the sound of the Bone-Drum
(a T-Rex skull with Archaeopteryx wing skin dried and stretched over it)
to the modern sounds created with DW and Pearl Masters...
Unfortunately no cavemen were found to provide comment at press time.


LOL.






s

[Kenny Gioia]

Nobody seems to be mentioning how this might help the pirating problem.

Unless of course, if philips starts selling the kids vinyl pressing machines.

[picksail]

Kids like vinyl because it's trendy.

It's hip to use terms like, 'wax' and 'vinyl'.

It's all part of the indie revolution.

Nostalgia.

[astronmr20]

Please. This has nothing to do with "sound quality."

Vinyl is indie..

exactly, picksail.


I'm still glad kids are buying them, though. records are more tactile.. more like you're actually holding "music" in you hand and not some digital file. More fun.

This MIGHT have somthing to do with the shittiness of MP3 sound compared to vinyl, but I'm probably reading too much into it.

[noiseflaw]

Originally Posted by picksail

Kids like vinyl because it's trendy.

It's hip to use terms like, 'wax' and 'vinyl'.

It's all part of the indie revolution.

Nostalgia.

Yup, that just 'bout sums it up.

Kidz jus can't squeeze those pesky round plasitcy things into their ichoon pod thangs though.......

[Gregg Sartiano]

Originally Posted by picksail

Kids like vinyl because it's trendy.

It's hip to use terms like, 'wax' and 'vinyl'.

It's all part of the indie revolution.

Nostalgia.

Picksail, how can one man be so right?

Does this have any relation to the "tape=warmer" threads?

[JohnNy C]

Originally Posted by joshelevator

That sound is more for the underground DJ scene which is always all about vinyl (don't show up at a big gig with final scratch). As far as its continuing popularity with non-dj/collector folks, , its probably a hip vintage thing and im sure everyone enjoys appreciating the artwork which is hard to dig on a cd or download. if we (vinyl junkies) are lucky, its actually because people are realizing how good vinyl sounds. either way, im happy-more vinyl!

Ahahha Imagine showing up to a club in Ibiza with Final Scratch and a laptop in hand? I think you would get jumped. Sure most of these kids think it's just cool and trendy to use vinyl. But lets not just look at the sound. The control you have over a record compared to a CD. Don't get me wrong, they are starting to perfect the CD scratching technology pretty damn well. But, as I said earlier, I don't think vinyl will be going anywhere any time soon in the pro club scene.

[robot gigante]

Originally Posted by picksail

Kids like vinyl because it's trendy.

It's hip to use terms like, 'wax' and 'vinyl'.

It's all part of the indie revolution.

Nostalgia.

You're partially right, but like I said before, give the kids some credit!

The indie revolution, whatever that is, has been going on for a good ten or fifteen years or so by that logic, since I remember discussions like this one from that long ago.

That may be the reason that kids begin listening to records, but a lot of people I know got into it in their teens, maybe because it was trendy, but they still continue to listen to it and prefer it to CD's over the last ten-fifteen years or so... It may have been trendy then and it may be trendy now, but people are sticking with it once they get into it.

I think that's a good thing myself, I mean kids are pretty clueless anyway so anything to get them to start paying attention to sound quality and music as something more than a file to be downloaded is a good thing I think.

[picksail]

Damn, now I have to respond by opening the proverbial can-o-worms...

OK, should I begin with thrift store clothing, tatoos or piercing?

[robot gigante]

That's ok, you have a point...

It seems like kids have been doing all of the above for a long long time though, although the preferred kind of thrift store clothing that the kids like to wear seems to fluctuate over the years- you don't see too many kids wearing flannel shirts around these days like you did in the 90's for example.

[beingmf]

Just an addition to what JohnNy C mentioned above: yesterday we did the first listening tests with an acetate cut on a uniquely modified Neumann lathe - it was incredible! Imagine that the song which was cut, was an mp3 (320kbps) and didn't sound really spectacular anyway. Transferred onto dubplate, through all those I-don't-know-but-it's-magic-electronics, it sounded extremely 3d and the bass was huge (yet not too much). Sounded like the process had added something which wasn't there originally...? We couldn't believe our ears, and I guess even my mother would have heard the difference!

my 2 €-cents

http://www.duophonic.de/index.php?english_main

[bunnerabb]

What I have always thought is, simply, a vinyl medium recording is what it is. It's physically etched into the piece and it is that thing and nothing more or less. If you deface the Mona Lisa at the Louvre, it is lost forever. If you deface a .jpg of it, so what? Nothing has actually happened. You just moved some numbers in a box.

All digital is a simulacrum.

Open a Sting CD in Wordpad and you might get a recipe for cheese blintzes.

It's a screen door mosaic of numbers pretending to be a physical copy of a physical event.

[Gregg Sartiano]

Originally Posted by bunnerabb

All digital is a simulacrum.

That's like the whole "give a monkey a typewriter and he'll eventually write a masterpiece" idea. People MUST have felt that way about recorded music in general -- it just takes generations to grow up with technology before it becomes regarded as a part of the landscape.

What if you showed a cell phone to a citizen in the 1950's and said "everybody's gonna have one of these." They'd a) disbelieve you, or b) imagine some Buck Rogers/Jetsons world where man has emerged victorious over nature. They would have no ability to envision how a cell phone would weave itself into everyday existence.

Just because it's converted to numbers doesn't make it any less 'real.' It DOES on the other hand make it less...ummm...tangible -- and the ability to touch a piece of tape (for instance) may reinforce the creative committment of most human beings involved in music, but that (***in and of itself -- outside of sonic arguments, etc.***) is about as important as turning on the lava lamp before the vocalist arrives.

"Simulacrum vs. real" is a vibe-related argument.

[max cooper]

I suppose this is a pretty philosophical discussion of music.

Hey, if it makes your booty feel like shakin', then it's workin'.

[dubrichie]

it's really very simple.

records are groovy. really groovy.

digital is square. really square.

ya dig man?

regards,

richie.

[bunnerabb]

"Simulacrum vs. real" is a vibe-related argument.

Perhaps.

But I think that taking music recording and reproduction out of the realm of electromechanical transduction and putting into the realm of bricks of 1's and 0's and, thereby, making it endlessly reproduceable, losslessly regenerable and hermetically sealed in an envelope of laser-read data streams has changed the way that people listen to, view, interact with and appreciate music.

I suppose that could be written off to vibe, but it's a very aseptic vibe, IMHO.

[Gregg Sartiano]

Originally Posted by bunnerabb

Perhaps.

But I think that taking music recording and reproduction out of the realm of electromechanical transduction and putting into the realm of bricks of 1's and 0's and, thereby, making it endlessly reproduceable, losslessly regenerable and hermetically sealed in an envelope of laser-read data streams has changed the way that people listen to, view, interact with and appreciate music.

Whenever I hear the Black Album or anything else done on a tape-based D.A.S.H. recorder, that's exactly what I'm thinking...(or a 3M digital multitrack...)