what are some of your must have plug-ins in PT HD ??

[vudoo]

Hi all,

I'm in the middle of mixing a pop/rock album and would like to do it in the box as much as i can.
I'm dissapointed with the sound i get from my list of plug-ins so far ( Ren bundle, D3,D2, Drawmer dyn, RevONE )...I'm basically looking for some kick as EQ and compressors...what are your recommandations..
I would love to be able to stay in the box, at least, for your basic EQ and Comp but the sound of those plugs are terrible compare to my API/Dakings, Distressor, JoeMeek SC2...But having to rely on the external hardware is a REAL pain because of the delay issue and having to continously bounce the file as i only have one 192i/o and a limited number of outboard.
Thanks

[tommyd]

Oxford EQ is the shit. I've heard good things about the comps as well, but don't have any time on them........yet. Think I'll download the demo this afternoon!
Tommy

[thethrillfactor]

Originally posted by vudoo
Hi all,

I'm in the middle of mixing a pop/rock album and would like to do it in the box as much as i can.
I'm dissapointed with the sound i get from my list of plug-ins so far ( Ren bundle, D3,D2, Drawmer dyn, RevONE )...I'm basically looking for some kick as EQ and compressors...what are your recommandations..
I would love to be able to stay in the box, at least, for your basic EQ and Comp but the sound of those plugs are terrible compare to my API/Dakings, Distressor, JoeMeek SC2...But having to rely on the external hardware is a REAL pain because of the delay issue and having to continously bounce the file as i only have one 192i/o and a limited number of outboard.
Thanks

My response would be none.

The two areas where analog outboard is still king is for drums,bass and vocals.

I would say if you got the outboard use it. Sure its a pain in the ass to use, but once you get used to it, you develop a pace that works well in this situation.

[quasimodonyc]

I'll second the Oxford, sounds great but it is a pain in the ass to use. I don't get why PI manufacturers want to make their shit look like outboard when it is much easier in a virtual environment to move a slider, or type in a value, than it is to try and precisely set a knob that's rolling all over the damn place if you move the mouse in the wrong direction.

[vudoo]

I just D/L the Sony EQ. It's better than my RenEQ BUT still nowhere near the API/Daking EQ... I only tried it on my drums but the difference was enough for me to not want to use any of these plugs across my drum tracks. All these plug does some nasty shit to the highs that i really hate...man, my hihat sounds like a razor blade.
I have not tried the McDSP and Massenburg EQ...
BTW, thethrillfactor, can you elaborate a little on your set up as you mention that you use mostly outboard for drums, bass and vocals.
At this point, i'm thinking of getting the DA option for my 192I/O so i have 16 outs and strickly use my Daking/Api EQ and Distressor for drums, And what would you suggest for bass EQ and compressor ?? Thanks

[doug_hti]

oxford for eq is great. I didn't buy the GML option, as I get by fine on it's 4 curves.

Massenberg EQ is better, brings on delay, eats DSP, but this has worked the best for me and you can make significant boosts without out it getting boxy or thinning out.

Others swear by filterbank, but I haven't had the same success in submixes or over the mix bus. For individual tracks it's fine. Very efficient!

For compressors, I have not been able to use anything on the mix bus, the closest has been the sony, but even that gets difficult.
The BF LA2A has been the most help/use to me for individual vocal tracks or bgvs.

Sound Blender/Pitch Blender stuff is AMAZING for modulated delays, etc.


My opinion, nothing compares to good outboard, like everyone else says. I think it's true. However for some things, it may not be worth the effort or DAAD when you need a little dip or boost here or there.
But if you really want to use plugs somewhat successfully, I really think that you have to have a stellar monitoring system/or know your monitors back to front and to really hear what is going on.

[syra]

The oxford Eq is one of the reaons why mixing in PT is now possible...and the compressor is even better IMHO. Especially the expander...dare you to find a better one in a plugin...

[dave-G]

I'll agree with Thrill in general, and I'm a big advocate of using "plug-outs"... But "none"???

There are some plug-ins that I like, and use a lot: Filterbank (after changing the lousy default peak, dip and slope parameters on the shelving bands), and RenComp are the most frequent fliers. Reverb One is pretty nice, PitchBlender is loads of fun, AnalogChannel is sometimes very nice, and there's some very good stuff among the GRM-tools plugs. The Waves Linear Phase EQ is also pretty cool.

Funny, but my demo of the Oxford EQ has expired and I'm not dying without it. I am, however very eager to hear the GML EQ plugin.

In all cases, I only expect them to do what they've proven to me that they're good for. For more specialized "sounds" it's somehow easier and more satisfying to go to outboard gear that has a "sound", delay-compensation PITA and all..

MMV

-dave

[thethrillfactor]

Originally posted by vudoo
.
BTW, thethrillfactor, can you elaborate a little on your set up as you mention that you use mostly outboard for drums, bass and vocals. Thanks

Sure,

I have two 192's hitting a patchbay with 16 ins and outs.

When I am mixing on a console or summing mixer I interface my patchbay with that. When mixing in PT alone, I have the outboard going in and out and I monitor on an empty track in record mode(monitoring the return).

I copy the tracks that I am manipulating with outboard and offset them before going out by the proper amount of samples. That way the return is lined up where it should be.

Most of the time I am doing one instrument at once and yeah it can be tedious to mix this way, but I've been mixing this way(even on SSL's) for a while.

I guess you can get used to anything.grudge

[stealthbalance]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by vudoo
[B]Hi all,

I'm in the middle of mixing a pop/rock album and would like to do it in the box as much as i can.
I'm dissapointed with the sound i get from my list of plug-ins so far ( Ren bundle, D3,D2, Drawmer dyn, RevONE )...I'm basically looking for some kick as EQ and compressors...what are your recommandations..
--------------------

vudoo-
just stay in the box totally - make your life simple - and your mixing and recalls.
here is my 2 cents:
the list of plugs that you have all stink except for the reverb one. ren bundle is a joke except for the ren de-sssser - but dont add it in after the fact cause it will darken your sound and piss you off.
stereo buss - channelstrip ( compressor ) , sony oxford stuff ( all of it ), cranesong phoenix, maybe a trace of duy wide. you can slam the channelstrip like you can a c2 in rock. for drum submix, duy tape and chanellstrip. ampfarm is genius instead of real guitar amps if you use multiple amps. as far as verbs and fx, i use altiverb, reverb one, and dverb. also waves metaflanger , digi dpp-1(haven't checked eventide works yet), and normal good ol' digirack delays - just also put duy tape on it too or whatever - id use echofarm but it takes too much dsp. if you want cool modelled y eq use filterbank - its cool for rock. if you want more pristine eq use sony oxford. for vocals and the like , just use 2 to 4 plug ins to simulate what you would get out of 1 or 2 real analog toys. just experiment. simple right?????
the biggest thing that also helped me was getting an apogee big ben clock for my hd4. no more digital hash. and much better imaging and solid sound. you can listen to many gearslutz here and be feeling that you will never get a great sound unless you mix at least 50% outside the box - but if you REALLY WANT to acheive greatness totally in the box , you absolutely can. you just have to aproach it in a SLIGHTLY different way. its not rocket science.
]also at the end of the day, send your mixes to a good studer 1/2 inch or something for that last 4% of vibe and magic . this is just what works for me so try it at your own risk. MVHO.
s

[jazzius II]

Plugins are mainly good for basic jobs IMO.......need to shelf or cut some frequencies to make space?....plugs are ok for this......but to add character or sex-appeal.....forget it.....ain't nuttin' hapnin'!.........when you push analogue outside the normal envelope, it bends and (can) get sexy......when you push digital past the norm you run into barbed wire (IMHO)

'Course i'm open to suggestions.....i'm sure the cranesong phoenix has upped the anti, and if you could get some Sintefex quality plugs that would also be cool, but still, you're limited to bending stuff the way some geek programmer/mathematician wants you to, rather then finding stuff for yourself.....like i said, Sintefex is pretty interesting though. And still, you've got the summing thing - where you're low-end and seperation craps out, the more tracks you add

[vudoo]

TheThrillfactor,
Do you use this method when you need to mix live drums ( 10 to 12 tracks of drums )...i mean using outboard and record the return for one track at the time is OK...but it seems a REAL pain when you`re dealing with live drums...and what happen when you want to make changes later ???
I'm trying to find a method where at the minimum my drums ( 8-10 tracks ), bass and LV will have outboard EQ and compressors inserted without having to bounce at all....wich means having enough dedicated outboard EQ/Comp dedicate to these task during the entire mix.
But then, what's the best way to compensate for delays...i suppose insert TD on ALL other channels...man this seems like a real PITA.

Steathlbalance,
I love to mix 100% in the box but after trying out the Sony EQ and the ones i already have ( RenEQ, D2 )...i hated the sound when i boosted the highs...i guess i'll give Filterbank a shot but it does not look to promising so far.

[thethrillfactor]

Originally posted by vudoo
Do you use this method when you need to mix live drums ( 10 to 12 tracks of drums )...i mean using outboard and record the return for one track at the time is OK...but it seems a REAL pain when you`re dealing with live drums...and what happen when you want to make changes later ???
I'm trying to find a method where at the minimum my drums ( 8-10 tracks ), bass and LV will have outboard EQ and compressors inserted without having to bounce at all....wich means having enough dedicated outboard EQ/Comp dedicate to these task during the entire mix.
But then, what's the best way to compensate for delays...i suppose insert TD on ALL other channels...man this seems like a real PITA.

Yeah I do.

The only reason I do it is because I tend to do complicated mults on certain instruments(namely Kick,snare and bass). They are sometimes 3-5 tracks deep for each sound.

I track the returns for recalls. I can automate the track after.

I tend not to use the TD plug and just shift the tracks manually.

PITA?

Welcome to the world of mixing with PT and outboard gear.grudge

By the way, I do this also with the effects, both digital and analog.

[vudoo]

But when during the mix do you print the track return ?? I mean unless you have TONS of outboard...how do you mix this way with something like 12 tracks of drums...does it mean you copy those 12 tracks, nudge the 12 newly copied tracks, insert outboard EQ/comp on each track ( i'm talking about 12 quality ouboard EQ and i suppose at least 4 compressors )...and mix away til it's done then print the final audio for recall purpose.
I guess this is the way i would want to work if i need to interface with outboard gear because having to print the the processed audio anytime before the mix is completely finished would be a real pain as we never know when we need to tweak some of those tracks.

[thethrillfactor]

Originally posted by vudoo
But when during the mix do you print the track return ?? I mean unless you have TONS of outboard...how do you mix this way with something like 12 tracks of drums...does it mean you copy those 12 tracks, nudge the 12 newly copied tracks, insert outboard EQ/comp on each track ( i'm talking about 12 quality ouboard EQ and i suppose at least 4 compressors )...and mix away til it's done then print the final audio for recall purpose.
I guess this is the way i would want to work if i need to interface with outboard gear because having to print the the processed audio anytime before the mix is completely finished would be a real pain as we never know when we need to tweak some of those tracks.

Yes I do.

Yeah copy and shift(PITA alright). A 64 track mix turns into a 128 track mix pretty quick(thank the lord for PT HD). I print early on though, as soon as i like what I am hearing.

I know right away when its gellin.

I don't insert per say, i just send the copied tracks to the outboard and mix in the return. That way later on I can use the outboard on something else.

This is why I've been bitchin to Digi for years now about fixing this issue(falls on deaf ears).

[stealthbalance]

Originally posted by vudoo
Steathlbalance,
I love to mix 100% in the box but after trying out the Sony EQ and the ones i already have ( RenEQ, D2 )...i hated the sound when i boosted the highs...i guess i'll give Filterbank a shot but it does not look to promising so far. [/B]

----------------------------------------
the sony oxford eq is a bit zingy on the top , ive heard that the gml plug-in eq is much smoother but i have not tried it yet. ren eq & D2 stink as far as im concerned . but please understand that you are judging the top end of the plugs with less than pristine clocking , the big ben for me changed it for the better bigtime. you might dig filterbank on the top end. good luck.

[syra]

The oxford eq is the reason I didn't buy the 2055. And I am talking about a head to head 2 day battle...98% of the time I could make the Sony indistinguishable from the Avalon...especially on 20db shelving boosts...go figure...

peace

[dtobocman]

Must have PT plugs? All McDSP (FilterBank, CompressorBank, Analog Channel). BF Pultec (believe it or not). Analog Channel 1 has been a good friend lately (hint: console #1 = SSL, console #2 = Neve). Surprisingly cool plugs? Joe Meek. Go figure.

[mpr3]

Originally posted by vudoo
how do you mix this way with something like 12 tracks of drums... i'm talking about 12 quality ouboard EQ and i suppose at least 4 compressors

Man, if you need to EQ all 12 drum tracks with quality outboard, then it is time to school the tracking engineer in the art of microphone/preamp selection.

[dtobocman]

......then it is time to school the tracking engineer in the art of microphone/preamp selection.

Shit, how many times have I had this thought?

[digitaledit]

quote:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
......then it is time to school the tracking engineer in the art of microphone/preamp selection.



AMEN TO THAT ONE...Well recorded tracks with well placed, quality mics in a good room should need little or no EQ. Thanks for bringing that up. Also, a good tip for engineers is to spend some time with some good drummers and learn to tune drums a bit. it's amazing how many drummers out there really aren't too good at it. You can bypass a lot of processing by recording a good sounding instrument to begin with

[davemc]

Yeah a well tuned drum kit in a nice room with good gear is what you need.
Although having a drummer who knows how to hit is another important thing.
My old studio kit sounded like ass a few times, . The next day it would sound great again. Only difference was the drummer.

[salvator]

original posted by jazzius

Sintefex is pretty interesting though. And still, you've got the summing thing - where you're low-end and seperation craps out, the more tracks you add

Hello Jazzius,


My experience with analog summing PERFECLTY fit in your description.

Do you have tested Sintefex gear by yourself ? It's the better purchase ever I've done for my digital studio.



Vudoo,

I easely understand your disappointment with PT plug ins.
I've tested most of the "good" plug around.

I REALLY dig the freq under 200hz of the oxford EQ for that solid sound. But that's all. I find the hi freq ridiculously plastic.
Maybe with PTHD @ 192 Khz the hi are better ! dunno...


The only plug I will recommend you are :

- altiverb (useful for gear snapshot : SPL tub vitalizer, various massive passive Hi self ... you can also do your own daking EQ preset !...)
- Time Works mastering limiter
- PSP vintage warmer (has it's interesting own color. a bit boring though)
- sony comp (useable)
- ? ... pretty short list !

that' all I think of for now.

Salvator

[drew]

GML eq
Cranesong Phoenix
McDSP Analog Channel
Sony eq
PitchBlender/SoundBlender
Inflator--I know, I know
Amplitube
drew

[nicolasixxx]

Sony EQ & Compressor (my "go to" plugs)
Waves delays (with Analog Channel Tape for flavour), Mondo Mod, Meta Flanger, Enigma etc
Analog Channel (console 1 or 2 on the odd track)
Amp Farm (more for cool fx than guitar amps)
That's about it for plugs. And outboard...
M3000 reverb, 2 x Distressors, Fatso, 2 x 1176's, La2a, Avalon 737, Neve 1073, Smart C2, DBX 160x, Dangerous 2Bus LT

Key tracks tend to get the outboard, but I definitely find the Sony stuff to be pretty solid and a step forward from the Waves EQs and Comps.

Nic