Beyer M160 as Overheads. How good?

[Pandemonium]

Hi. I want to try ribbon mics as overheads, to tame the hihats and cymbal sizzle. I have low ceilings, so Beyer M160 is the obvious choice.
I listened to some clips in ZenProAudio clipalator, in vocals the M160 mellows hi end, but as drum overhead, everything sounds metallic and bright. Dont know if theres something wrong with that clip.
Whats your experience? Is Beyer M160 good to achieve a mellower overhead sound, to tame hi hats?
Thanks

[Pandemonium]

Anyone?

[theslingerland]

I love them - I tried Shure KSM 353's and 313's and preferred the 160's - I use them in a low ceiling'd studio and they are just the ticket. The room is extremely dead and the 160's blend all of the drums and cymbals together really nicely. I'm using it through my Focusrite 428. The output isn't as hot as other mics I've used so a good pre is a must.

[jdsowa]

You may be expecting too much from your microphone choice. Of course anything will be better than a condenser in this situation. But if you have low ceilings and a bad room, you are going to get bad sounds no matter what you use. In your situation, you need to try to capture as little of the room as possible, which means using as few mics as you can, and mixing overheads very low, if not avoiding them altogether. You may have to rethink the viability of getting certain kinds of drum sounds in your room.

[robertshaw]

dark but smooth
great mics

[IceWood Studios]

I love them on overhead, takes a fair bit of processing, but OMG is it worth it - I find I use them more on snare and toms nowadays though - also E.guitar.....WOW

[Pandemonium]

Originally Posted by jdsowa

You may be expecting too much from your microphone choice. Of course anything will be better than a condenser in this situation. But if you have low ceilings and a bad room, you are going to get bad sounds no matter what you use. In your situation, you need to try to capture as little of the room as possible, which means using as few mics as you can, and mixing overheads very low, if not avoiding them altogether. You may have to rethink the viability of getting certain kinds of drum sounds in your room.

Hi Jsowa. My room doesn't sound bad at all. It is well treated, thick bass traps, diffussers, etc. Very dry sound. I've gotten good drum sounds. What I want to improve is the hihat sound. I want a more vintage, tapey sound. Hi hats always sound a bit bright in the mix. I use a single SM81 as overhead.
Sometimes I use a U87ai as room mic.

I know, I have 3 options. 1. Change hihats. 2. EQ the overhead track in the mix (LP Filter), or 3. Use a different overhead mic.

In case I use a different mic, my ceiling is low, so a cardioid, hypercardioid ribbon mix would be great. Cant imagine using a 4038, or R84 in this situation.

Will a Beyer M160 help me achieve a darker sound?
Thanks

[IceWood Studios]

you would be surprised, fig 8 mics can and do work in small rooms all the time

[jdsowa]

Any ribbon/dynamic is going to be darker than the SM81. So, yes. The SM81 actually has a bump at 15k, while ribbon mics have already started tailing off considerably at that point.

I would certainly try for EQ. And a -24db lo-pass may be overkill. You may want only to cut 5-10db, depending.

I doubt hi-hats will make a significant difference. Sure, smaller might be quieter, but will still be just as bright.

When you say "vintage, tapey", do you have a particular record in mind as a reference point?

[cyjanopan]

I use SM81 and M160 from time to time, and cymbals would be smoother and tapey, but the balance between drums and cymbals would stay more or less the same. Only Coles 4038 is the mic that I used that has this ability, but it sounds just wrong with low ceilings. Unfortunately if you want less hihat you have to play it quieter

[Pandemonium]

The Beatles, Bob Marley. Led Zeppelin. 60s/70s stuff.

Bigger hihats have more meat, kind of a chunky sound.
Smaller hats are usually brighter. The usage/material also plays a role.

You're right. EQ seems like the more budget friendly option.
Any Low Pass filter must be subtle, as you say.

There's a case for getting it right at the source though. That's were a ribbon mic might (hopefully) help.

Just want to know peoples experience with a M160. I read they have a hi mid emphasis. Is this mic good for achieving a mellower/darker overhead sound? Sorry if the question seems silly. After all, its a ribbon, but I read it has a different sound than most ribbons.

[Pandemonium]

Originally Posted by cyjanopan

I use SM81 and M160 from time to time, and cymbals would be smoother and tapey, but the balance between drums and cymbals would stay more or less the same. Only Coles 4038 is the mic that I used that has this ability, but it sounds just wrong with low ceilings. Unfortunately if you want less hihat you have to play it quieter

Thanks.

[edva]

IME, they do have a broad, gentle EQ bump between 2-8K, plus an extended hi end for a ribbon, and are somewhat thin on the bottom, esp. for a ribbon. they also have very good rejection, again, esp. for a ribbon.
Don't know if they will give you what you are looking for. I love the mic, and the 260 as well, it has become my first call on acoustic rhythm guitar, because of the smoothness with some highs, the isolation, the reduced low end, and the overall sound. HTH, YMMV.

[Pandemonium]

Thanks Edva.
Anyone else want to chime in?

[AB3]

My ceiling is about 8 1/2 feet - so not that high a ceiling. I have gotten really good results with a pair of 47 clones IN OMNI with a fairly dead room that has been treated.

I would think that the M160s would not be a problem at all. BUT other choices - like figure 8 and omni can work as well.

One thing I would check - which I think is referred to above - is the actual high hat you are using. I actually bought my own for my project studio rather than relying on what a drummer might bring in. The choice of high hat is critical IMHO. I like the high hat to be warm and rich. Otherwise you may as well do a cowbell solo album (Ok that's an exaggeration.)

[lhama]

Excellent oh mic. The kit sounds like a drum kit, and the rejection is good.

[skullsessions]

I switched from Oktava 012's to Beyer M160's a few years ago for the same reasons you're talking, based on a recommendation from a talented engineer I trust. Great move.

HOWEVER....what I've switched to the last couple of years is a single OH mic (AT 4047) and moved the M160's to the room.

Just pulling up the OH and the Rooms sounds excellent....which is the real goal, isn't it? Seriously, the M160's are my favorite mic for a lot of things. Wish I had purchased them early on.

[spencerc]

M160s plus UBK Clariphonic on OHs = magic

[andychamp]

Last time I used M160s on OHs was in a cramped, very dry booth with a nasty, hollow-sounding lowmid buildup.
I set them up as a wide spaced pair, roughly centered over the hihat and ride, and equidistant from the snare (so they ended up at different heights).
A high shelf lift at mixdown opened up the cymbals without harshness and added some nice snap to the snare. Panned them fully L/R.
(Nasty) room sound was nicely kept out by the tight hypercardioid pattern.
Very cool on rock guitars, too.

[greenfields]

I use one overhead and it's the Beyer M160.

they capture the whole kit, including cymbals!, perfectly.

[greatgreatriver]

I've had awesome (to my humble lofi ears) results with one M160 above the snare and one md21 down at the floor tom facing to the snare. The Beyer works great in small rooms... Think I'm going to buy another one.

Great on Ac guitar as well...

[Mr. Tom]

Originally Posted by greatgreatriver

I've had awesome (to my humble lofi ears) results with one M160 above the snare and one md21 down at the floor tom facing to the snare. The Beyer works great in small rooms... Think I'm going to buy another one.

Great on Ac guitar as well...

Great mics!


Get 2 more:
one for the side of kit.
one for outside the kick.

Done!

Very nice and balanced!

Best,
Tom

[skullsessions]

Originally Posted by andychamp

Very cool on rock guitars, too.

Ditto that. My Royer 121 lives in it's coffin now for a long time....rarely comes out to play since the M160's showed up.

[warhead]

Overall and by comparison to other ribbons on the market, the M160 is a tight and present sort of sound. It's darker than most SDC mics for sure, but brighter and more open than most ribbons. I would not just call it a dark mic, but it does seem right up your alley. Don't expect that wide, fat sound of the larger ribbons! Tight and focused.

War

[burst]

We've got two and they're on the kit every day. So damn good.

[AB3]

I am in SLC. I was on the stage where the famous choir sings with orchestra.
Lots of natural reverb. Cannot really even use stage monitors there.
Guess what mics I saw on the instruments? (M160s - ok - I know it was a tough guess. And they sounded SWEET!)

[Keire]

great mics. i like them a lot. i dont use them on all kits or styles. my km184s get used far more

[Scott003]

Originally Posted by jdsowa

The SM81 actually has a bump at 15k

Thought the 81 strived to be a flat(ish) mic? Checked the frequency response for shits and giggles; it ripples slightly from 2k-4k and 7k up, with a wide dip from 11 to 15, so 15 is a little emphasized, but not too much.

task at hand.....

IMHO, the 160 is a kickass OH mic, sounds excellent. The good old "ribbons hearing like your ears" is absolutely true, makes 'em sound like drums. I'd say a sure bet, unless you need very bright drum sound. Grab a 130 and M-S it, well worth the trouble. I actually threw up a 160 over a musical pit drum kit/ aux perc setup, picks it all up exactly as you'd want to hear it.