Best live rock drum sound in a song ever

[BevvyB]

I'm sitting here having a break 1.20am

and

Misty Mountain Hop by Led Zep certainly sounds like a contender

How would you go about getting that sound?

[Wiggy Neve Slut]

Dude .... u dont need a break u need sleep!

Looking out for fellow slutz
Wiggy

[BevvyB]

thanks!

But anyway, back to the question...

Actually, I just listened to it again, and I've made up my mind

It's the best

you can now make some comments, 'cos i'm not going to change my mind lol

anyway, this is a proper break

which involves vodka

[Wiggy Neve Slut]

yeah i think the Zep drum sound is a benchmark of the live sounds other that i dig are:

Nirvana in utero

Finn brothers 'Finn' .. Tchad blake specialty

Coldplay's 'in my place' from 'Rush of blood to the head'

Black Crowes 'Amorica'... JJP i think its fantastic drum sound with neve written all over it.. the songs dont suck ass either!

Abbey Rd..need i say more?

and for a few local Aussie ones...

Sand Pit 'On second thought'

Ides of Space 'First translated in 1965'

Cheers
Wiggy

[Ted Nightshade]

That is a killer sound! I love that bass drum sound, has a real knock to it. Nice big bass drum. I wonder did Bonzo ever use calfskin? Ringo did on Abbey Road at least.

I have a real nice old Paiste 23" cymbal that sounds like one of Bonzo's. Yeah!


you can tell he's hitting those drums really, really hard- even more evident than on a lot of other Zep contenders.

[BevvyB]

one word

ENERGY

[Ted Nightshade]

Energy is futile without WICKED INTENT. You KNOW the man means business!

[BevvyB]

Tooo right!

NAILED

[Wiggy Neve Slut]

How about groove...???

Misty mountain hop has just a sick ass groove that just goes...

[BevvyB]

Is anyone nowadays doing that 'really not very properly tracked lead vocal' thing?

apart from that....

Full name: John Henry Bonham
Born: 31 May 1948, Redditch, England
Died: 25 September 1980, Windsor, England
Nickname: Bonzo
Family: Parents: Jack and Joan Bonham
Brother: Michael (3 years younger)
Sister: Debbie (14 years younger)

"I'd wanted to be a drummer since I was about five years old. I used to play on a bath-salts container with wires on the bottom, and on a round coffee tin with a loose wire attached to it to give a snare drum effect. Plus there were always my mum's pots and pans."

"When I was ten, my mum bought me a snare drum. I've always been fascinated by drums--I felt nothing for any other instrument. Later I played a bit of acoustic guitar, but it was always drums, first and foremost. I don't reckon with that jack-of-all-trades thing."


Bonham never took a single drum lesson.

"My dad had bought me my first drum kit the year before [1964]. It was almost prehistoric--most of the metal had rusted. Later I learned how to properly look after my drums. People who don't care for their drums really annoy me."

"As soon as I left school, I decided I was definitely going to be a drummer. I was very determined. In Terry Webb and the Spiders, we used to wear purple jackets with velvet lapels. The singer wore a gold lamé jacket, and we all had greased hair and string ties."


Played with the Spiders for a year.


Started playing with A Way of Life and married Pat Phillips at age 17.

"I swore to Pat that I'd give up drumming when we got married. But every night I'd come home and sit down at the drums and play. I'd be miserable if I didn't."


The couple lived in a 15 foot trailer. Bonham had to quit smoking to pay the rent.


Bonham Robert Plant's band, the Crawling King Snakes. Unfortunately, he lived too far away from Plant to be able to get to rehearsals. The gig didn't last long.


Midlands musical contemporary Ed Pilling on Bonham: "Bonham was just great--he was the strongest, loudest drummer I'd ever seen. He was the first local drummer to line his bass drum with aluminum to give it a cannon-like sound. The sound he got was just unreal... John broke his bass drum head during the gig. Band members said that was typical. Actually several other groups told me that certain clubs wouldn't book bands in which John Bonham played drums, because he was too loud."

"Well yeah, I was always breaking drum heads when I first started playing. Later on I learned how to play louder but without hitting the drums so hard. It has all to do with the swing of the stick."

"When I first started playing, I was interested in music and I was able to read it. But when I moved into playing with groups, I did a silly thing and dropped it. I do think it's great to be able to write down ideas in music form. But I also think that feeling is a lot more important in drumming than mere technique. It's all very well to be playing a triple paradiddle--but who's going to know you're actually doing it? If you pay too much attention to technique, you start to sound like every other drummer does. I think that being original is what counts. When I listen to other drummers, I like to be able to say, 'Oh, that's nice, I haven't heard that before.' I think that being yourself as a drummer is so much better than sounding like anyone else."

"I've always liked drums to be big and powerful. I've never been into using cymbals overmuch. I use them to crash into a solo and out of it, but basically I prefer the actual drum sound. To me drums sound better than cymbals."


Bonham played many solos hitting the drums with his bare hands. This was inspired by a jazz drummer Bonham saw doing it.

"It wasn't so much what you could play with your hands--you got a lovely little tone out of the drums that you couldn't get with sticks. I thought it would be a good thing to do so I've been doing it ever since. You really get an absolutely true drum sound because there's no wood involved. It hurts your hands at first, but then the skin hardens. I think I can hit a drum harder with my hands than with sticks."


"John was a very aggressive drummer...and just like he drummed, he was. John was never afraid of a knock. He didn't go out of his way looking for it, but if it was there it was exercise and a chance to get a few things off his chest." -Ed Pilling


Bonham was very impressed in the mid 1960s by drummer Ginger Baker.

"When I first started, Ginger was a big image in Britain. He was a star in his own right. In the old big band era, a drummer was a backing musician and nothing else. In the early American bands, the drummer played almost unnoticed with brushes, always in the background. Gene Krupa was the first big band drummer to be really noticed. He came right out into the front and he played drums much louder than they had ever been played before. And much better. People hadn't taken much notice of drums until Krupa came along. Ginger was responsible for the same sort of thing in rock. Rock music had been around for a few years before Baker, but he was the first to come out with this "new" attitude--that a drummer could be a forward part of a rock band...not something that was stuck in the background and forgotten about. I don't think anyone can ever put Ginger Baker down. Of course, every drummer has his own idea of just when Baker was at his absolute peak...I thought he was just fantastic when he played with the Graham Bond Organization. It's really a pity that American and Japanese audiences didn't see that band because it really was a fantastic line-up consisting of Jack Bruce, Graham Bond and Ginger Baker. Personally I think Ginger Baker was more into Jazz than rock...he definitely did play with jazz influence. He was always doing things in 5/4 and 3/4 tempos which are associated with jazz. Unfortunately he's always been a very weird sort of bloke. You couldn't really get to know him--he just wouldn't allow it. Ginger's thing as a drummer was that he was always himself. It was pointless for anyone to try to do what he was doing. And Eric Clapton was the same in the guitar field."


While Ginger Baker was with Cream, Bonham again joined Robert Plant, this time in the Band of Joy. They backed up American folksinger Tim Rose on his UK tour in 1968.

"I think my first real break was backing up Tim Rose."


The Tim Rose gig was a failure and returned to the US. The Band of Joy disbanded shortly after.

"Robert and I lost contact for two or three months..."


The next time they came in contact was when Plant suggested Bonham as a drummer for Jimmy Page's new band--The New Yardbirds; soon to be renamed Led Zeppelin.

[heinz]

Any STP record, or SuperUnknown. Basically, almost any record done by Brendan O'Brien is my ideal rock drum sound. Brimming with ****ing energy, drive, and rockness. Pure sex and drums.

[chrisv]

Originally posted by BevvyB

Full name: John Henry Bonham
Born: 31 May 1948, Redditch, England
Died: 25 September 1980, Windsor, England
Nickname: Bonzo
Family: Parents: Jack and Joan Bonham
Brother: Michael (3 years younger)
Sister: Debbie (14 years younger)

My all-time favourite drum sound is 'The Ocean' from Houses of the Holy. To me it is the be all, end all of big drums sounds bar none.

I thought I read somewhere that the drums were tracked on the landing of a big staircase in a mansion... anybody know this for sure?


Chris

[hammer]

I dig all that old led zep stuff too! When the levee breakes anyone?

More recent stuff, I'm diggin' is the new audio slave. It just feels really good to me.
I guess ultimately that's what it's all about.

[stuntmixer]

Great recent rock 'n roll moment for me:

Driving back from Dallas after a gig, most everyone trying to sleep over the severely drunken Proustian rants of our drummer, bellowed into my ear accompanied by his Faustian beer breath. As if it were reaching out of the ether to save me, the live Moby Dick from the DVD came on the radio. I turned it up really loud and we drove through the early Texas morning on waves of THAT DRUM SOUND.

I think he really could have sat down at my little Rogers kit here at the studio and made it sound like that. Good God. I hope you've had a chance to see the DVD if you are a fan.

All the drummer could summon up for the rest of the trip was an occasional stuned "oh shit, did you hear that.... holy shit..." He has been playing like a possesed man ever since....

[Ted Nightshade]

Enjoyed the little bio there! As a drummer who plays with a gong or two as standard equipment, I think Bonzo was ultra hip- he knew when to pound the tar out of the bass drum and floor tom (and timpani!) and crash, and when to just give it a nice big one on the gong. I think a lot of drummer's waste a lot of energy and noise looking for that sound on the kit...

I saw a link on the 3D audio forum that had a photo of that Headley Grange staircase, a big square round and round spiral style thing. There is apparently a mic hanging there still, to show all the curious visitors how it was done!

But the single greatest thing Bonham ever played was absolutely silent- that one rest after the la-la-la's in The Ocean where everybody bangs their head. How is that possible? But there it is. That silence, preceded only by the sing songy vocal, is the single hardest rocking moment ever. Unbelievable. I believe!

[smoothmoniker]

i might have missed the point of the post, but for a "live" drum sound off of a "live" recording, my vote is for Eric Clapton, 24 nights. The band is unreal, and Steve Ferrone sounds incredible.

-sm

[BevvyB]

I guess when I said 'live' I meant 'played by a person who was a real drummer' and not a fiasco of triggers, loops and extra sampled shenannagins

[recorderman]

Ditto Bonzo.
Got to see him do Moby Dick at the LA forum, 1977 with Kieth Moon sitting in as well...you can imagine.

Also, the first "Bad Co." Record, cut if I remember during a break on "Physical Graphitti", with the same remote truck and location.

On the American side, Aerosmith "Toys in the Attic" and "Rocks" are awesome and the first "Montrose" album all had pretty kickin drums.

[alphajerk]

Originally posted by Wiggy Neve Slut
yeah i think the Zep drum sound is a benchmark of the live sounds other that i dig are:

Nirvana in utero

ewww, thats probably the WORST sounding album of all time. MC5 has that one beat hands down.

[toledo3]

Hmmm, there are SO many good drum sounds. Roomy, or dry, all good.

Lately I have been into some of the drum sounds on Boz Scaggs "silk degrees". Low Down and Lido have this nice in your face semi dry thing going on that I am chasing down. Having Porcaro drum helped, I'm sure.

Flaming Lips "Satellite...." album had some great over the top fx type sounds.

"This Is It" Kenny Loggins, has one of my favorite drum sounds.

Led Zep of course, though really, some of the drum tones are shitty, and are just vindicated by Bonham's playing.

Mahavishnu "Birds Of Fire" album has killer drum tone.

The new Peter Wolf album has some great 3D drum tones.

Many others, that's just what comes to mind right now...

[Jules]

"I saw a link on the 3D audio forum that had a photo of that Headley Grange staircase, a big square round and round spiral style thing. There is apparently a mic hanging there still, to show all the curious visitors how it was done!"

At the time the mic's might have been plugged into one of the 4 Helios channels I own, as they came from the Ronnie Lane mobile truck Ron Nevison used. (I belive the Rolling Stones Mobile WASNT in fact the one used although it had the same black Helios modules all the rage then..(as used back at Londons Basing St & Olympic studios)

[denial]

The Zep stuff for sure but I kind of liked the messy, aggressive sound on Aerosmith's "Nine Lives" record. Kevin Shirley usually pulls a great rock drum sound as is also evident on "By your side" from The Black Crowes.

[Chae Ham]

Since Bonzo's taken, I'll put in a few votes for more modern drummers, lets see...

Carter Beauford--A reallllll groove player that knows how to play in the pocket but knows when to break out the chops, and KILLER Tone!

Brad Wilk--I'll second the previous vote for this guy. Straight ahead in the pocket player with attitude. Tight, solid drum sound.

Honorable mention: Whoever that session drummer is for John Mayer. He beats the crap out of his drums but it sounds crisp and snappy!

[flawedmusic]

Lately I haven't been able to get past 'Temple of the Dog' for all round shit hot drum sound. Hearing the whole kit sound in the room is just good.

[madrigal]

Originally posted by alphajerk In Utero
ewww, thats probably the WORST sounding album of all time.

You don't like the way it sounds? Albini's methods don't work for every band, but IMHO that album really works - the sound's as raw and agressive as the music.

Or what about Surfer Rosa? The drums at the start of Bone Machine are waaaaay huge!!

[Kris]

I'm always seriously impressed by the drums on Blues Traveler's albums, and also Cake...

[7rojo7]

There has never yet been a drummer as talented, spirited or as lucky as Bonzo. He had a way of playing swing against triplets against straight time (Heartbreaker) that you can now only hear from kids in the garage before they get smacked around by a producer with a stopwatch and a metronome. He knew how to tune a drum kit, he loved other drummers and what they did and wasn't afraid to snag a thing or 2 from them and do it his way (Carmine Appice). The whole Presence album and most of Physical graffiti is just ****ing ATOMIC, not to mention Led Zep 1, the first time I heard 16th notes on a kick, split kit triplets and panning tom rolls from a mono drum source (very dynamic, better than panned toms, more like a tennis match than ping pong).
Then he got to play in a pretty cool band, the bass player who writes arrangements for a third of the pop tunes recorded in patria and that had played in cheesy jazz trios with john McLaughlin, the guitar player who could hardly stand up but had studied music from ancient english folk to Django and Les Paul The next best thing to Jeff Beck But better and with dragons and snakes flying out his butt, and the singer who blows a mighty righty harp. I saw pictures of these guys all with beards and missing teeth drinking Jack and I said to myself "wow, these guys must really love music" that was before I thought I knew anything.
And they worked with great engineers who really listened to what was going on.
I believe that WLTB was recorded through an echoplex if I remember my LZ mythology well, you can certainly hear it. The groove is so constant because they fed it back to him. If I remember correctly in the famous guitar player magazine article on JP and JPJ that JP said that they would go for the drums first and then do fixes on the other rhythm tracks based on the drum (edit?) Plant would always sing with the first tracks and then they would do overdub and effects at a second time, I don't know if they did one song at a time, which was once popular, or did the assembly line deal.
He was a balanced player also, he didn't smack his hats or cymbals too hard unless the situation merited so (Rock n' Roll). This makes it easier to get a good snare and kik sound because they're more isolated (by the artist) in fact just a couple of mics. would probably do, and they did. The whole band had a sense of dynamics that you just don't find anymore.
I could go on about Black Sabbath in almost the same way, although their sounds weren't as refined and the compositions all sounded like stripped down big band stuff (riffs) the dynamics issue was still strong. enough? No, I loved the LZ live, not for sound but for the fact that they never stopped playing and the arrangements and medleys and mood shifts were amazingly entertaining. I saw them in 77 and i swear that except for the drum solo Bonzo never hit a tom and crashed the cymbals only for the obbligato, just hat kik and snare, tight as a mother****er. as a teenge kid anxious to see that drummer wail I was disappointed but shortly after and to this day I really appreciate it. enough? never
Oh yeah, the Montrose album with Rock Candy, Make it last and Bad Motor Scooter had some pretty tough sounds and some good playing, but I don't remember who it was playing (Tommy Aldridge), Black Sabbath's album with Ronnie James Dio had some good sounds on it and almost any fusion album done by Ken Scott with a plurethra of good drummers. These are all huge type drum sounds. Surely there must be some others, no? Stones always seemed to work for the song but not anything you could point your finger at, or make your scrotum crinkle. enough?

[recorderman]

Originally posted by 7rojo7
Oh yeah, the Montrose album with Rock Candy, Make it last and Bad Motor Scooter had some pretty tough sounds and some good playing, but I don't remember who it was playing (Tommy Aldridge), Black Sabbath's album with Ronnie James Dio had some good sounds on it

Denny Carmassi was the drummer for Montrose ('73 what a great year).
I recorded some Dio, Vinnie Appice, Carmines brother played....he broke in half the kick pedal...awesome drummer.

Tommy Aldredge never got better imo than in Pat Travers band!

those were the days of rock 'n' roll.

[Ted Nightshade]

So let's hear it for Ringo- who else could do agressive tom fills all over a song like "A Day in the Life" and have it actually be appropriate? Perfect in fact? Geoff and him really paved the way for huge sounding natural drums.

Ever heard that snippet of "wildman" drumming on the Anthology, some of which appeared on "Tomorrow Never Knows"? (Geoff's first day on the job with the Beatles!) Oh yeah... Oh yeah... Oh yeah!

Cool Jules you got the Helios modules!

[alphajerk]

Originally posted by madrigal
You don't like the way it sounds? Albini's methods don't work for every band, but IMHO that album really works - the sound's as raw and agressive as the music.

Or what about Surfer Rosa? The drums at the start of Bone Machine are waaaaay huge!!

no, it sounds like shit. its unlistenable. nirvana sounded best with their early stuff, bleach is better and the bsides of incesticide kill the major releases. and i prefer nevermind over in utero, at least i can listen to it without cringing.

surfer rosa isnt very good either, none ofthe pixie stuff sounds that great albini did. i really wish it would be remixed a lot better as i am a fan of their music but not of the production of it.


huge drums for me are clutch's jam room, flaming lips coulds taste metallic, suplecs sad songs, melvins ozma/gpt, jucifer calling all cars, rev horton heat liquor in the front, janes nothing shocking... etc. pixies and in utero sound utterly small in comparison.