Gear used by American R n' B/soul/funk of the 60s

[dillweed4]

Hey guys,

I'm a big fan of that old raw funk, soul and R n' B that came out of America in the 60s, but its been a bit of a challenge finding out anything about what they used to record in their studios. What was used to get that real raw sound? Surely not high end gear? I imagine a lot of people used whatever budget stuff they could to record with. Microphones, desks, tape machines, techniques - if anyone knows, then share please!

I found this on Motown studio though, which is pretty interesting:

Motown Musuem

Examples that I love with that dirty sound:

http://youtu.be/SUYPnVWqMfQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_t4C1J-cVs

[vernier]

Of course it was high-end ...they didn't mess around. Soundwise, the key is all-tube, all analog, and tape.
.
.

[mattallen]

The gear was secondary.

The song, players and arrangement made more of a difference than the tubes and tape, period.

[funkycam]

search on "Tom Brenneck" for contemporary ways to get that sound.
Here is a record he recorded:
iTunes - Music - No Time for Dreaming (The Instrumentals) by Charles Bradley & Menahan Street Band

see this also:Equipment I need to get that 'Old Soul Sound'

[brassmoose]

I have the same obsession with that "vintage" sound. I'm a novice at this, but I've learned a few things--from research, recording bands, and getting my own band's soul CD out the door.

First, everyone playing has to be a solid player, and the music has to be solid. Vintage gear on a boring song is still a boring song. Second, everyone in the band has to be completely in tune with the concept. I defer to Dap Tone records and their house band, the Dap Kings. If your drummer wants to play lots of heavy fills...well, that ain't vintage. 1980s vintage maybe Homer Steinweiss (drummed on Amy Weinhouse CD) keeps it simple & in the pocket. And the whole band plays the style. No cutting corners. No flat 9 chords. (haha) This is a constant struggle for me since I have a 1960s soul band with a neo-soul singer and an EWF drummer.

As for Motown...they had some top gear. They even used an RCA 77 ribbon mic on the kick drum. (I tried a ribbon on kick & it's fantastic.) In fact (so I've read) their drum setup was a 77 on kick, 77 on overhead, and a U87 on snare. Who wouldn't love those mics now? But they, just like Dap Tone today, had folks who knew the gear & the room intimately and could squeeze the best out of it. So, is it the gear? A bit. Is it the room? For sure. Is it the skill & experience with gear? Definitely yes. 2nd only to the players & songs (IMHO).

So, squeezing the most out of your gear with great musicians has become a theme for me lately...to elaborate...here's a cat I know who makes vintage sounding recordings himself.

http://www.tramprecords.com/sound/45/tr-1025_a.mp3

http://www.tramprecords.com/sound/45/tr-1025_b.mp3

Like? No like? Any guesses on the gear?

[dillweed4]

Originally Posted by brassmoose

I have the same obsession with that "vintage" sound. I'm a novice at this, but I've learned a few things--from research, recording bands, and getting my own band's soul CD out the door.

First, everyone playing has to be a solid player, and the music has to be solid. Vintage gear on a boring song is still a boring song. Second, everyone in the band has to be completely in tune with the concept. I defer to Dap Tone records and their house band, the Dap Kings. If your drummer wants to play lots of heavy fills...well, that ain't vintage. 1980s vintage maybe Homer Steinweiss (drummed on Amy Weinhouse CD) keeps it simple & in the pocket. And the whole band plays the style. No cutting corners. No flat 9 chords. (haha) This is a constant struggle for me since I have a 1960s soul band with a neo-soul singer and an EWF drummer.

As for Motown...they had some top gear. They even used an RCA 77 ribbon mic on the kick drum. (I tried a ribbon on kick & it's fantastic.) In fact (so I've read) their drum setup was a 77 on kick, 77 on overhead, and a U87 on snare. Who wouldn't love those mics now? But they, just like Dap Tone today, had folks who knew the gear & the room intimately and could squeeze the best out of it. So, is it the gear? A bit. Is it the room? For sure. Is it the skill & experience with gear? Definitely yes. 2nd only to the players & songs (IMHO).

So, squeezing the most out of your gear with great musicians has become a theme for me lately...to elaborate...here's a cat I know who makes vintage sounding recordings himself.

http://www.tramprecords.com/sound/45/tr-1025_a.mp3

http://www.tramprecords.com/sound/45/tr-1025_b.mp3

Like? No like? Any guesses on the gear?

Yeah man, Daptone are the best of modern day recordings for sure... love their sound. There is actually an really good interview with Gabriel Roth (main man at Daptone) on the Red Bull Academy, 2 hours of soul talk and how to get that sweet sound:

Gabriel Roth :: Red Bull Music Academy

I'm seeing Sharon Jones & the Dap-Kings in London for the 3rd time in March... am very much looking forward to that! Best live show I ever seen.

[famousbass]

Originally Posted by dillweed4

Yeah man, Daptone are the best of modern day recordings for sure... love their sound. There is actually an really good interview with Gabriel Roth (main man at Daptone) on the Red Bull Academy, 2 hours of soul talk and how to get that sweet sound:

Gabriel Roth :: Red Bull Music Academy

I'm seeing Sharon Jones & the Dap-Kings in London for the 3rd time in March... am very much looking forward to that! Best live show I ever seen.

I watched half of it.
He kind of put me to sleep with his non-stop 2,000 word sentences.
Smart guy, but what a mouth!

[brassmoose]

Just saw Sharon Jones in Seattle again...new drummer, but same pocket. Keepin it simple leaves lots of room for other parts to fit in and not feel cluttered.

There are some cool vids on youtube showing actual gear at Daptone. Reslo ribbons, a 77, some old radio shack condensors, maybe a D19, etc. TubeTech EQ. And they had all their gear stolen back in 2008ish.

But, at the end of the day, it's Gabe Roth having a sound in his head and getting it from the gear. Not him working with the sounds that are already vintage.. Like a good painter...the picture is already in their head. The paint is just a medium to get the image out. Visualization is everything. Gabe visualizes like a mo fo.

[robertshaw]

Originally Posted by mattallen

The gear was secondary.

Originally Posted by mattallen

The song, players and arrangement made more of a difference than the tubes and tape, period.

[dillweed4]

Originally Posted by brassmoose

Just saw Sharon Jones in Seattle again...new drummer, but same pocket. Keepin it simple leaves lots of room for other parts to fit in and not feel cluttered.

There are some cool vids on youtube showing actual gear at Daptone. Reslo ribbons, a 77, some old radio shack condensors, maybe a D19, etc. TubeTech EQ. And they had all their gear stolen back in 2008ish.

But, at the end of the day, it's Gabe Roth having a sound in his head and getting it from the gear. Not him working with the sounds that are already vintage.. Like a good painter...the picture is already in their head. The paint is just a medium to get the image out. Visualization is everything. Gabe visualizes like a mo fo.

Agreed! He is a boss of production and the pool of musicians that they have is immense in terms of quality. I think a label like Daptone is really inspiring for a home studio builder. If you watch some of their videos on youtube, you will learn that they build their setup 'the budget way' - aka doing all the electronics themselves, building all the rooms themselves, they put old tyres under the floor to further dampen and improve the room sound.

If you listen to early Sharon Jones albums, they were recorded in some guys basement, not even a studio. Just goes to show that THE QUALITY OF THE MUSICIANS AND THE SONGWRITING IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN THE GEAR USED! You can spend thousands, millions even... but if the music you write sucks, then people aren't gonna want to listen to it.

[dillweed4]

Anyone know anything about Chess records and their studios back in the day?