and the loudness war winner is .....SKRILLEX

[RightOnRome]

"bangarang"..has any one herd this.. crazy space music louder then everything out there.. i have a client that loves it and gave me the cd to check out... wow ..unreal

[complex]

Kids do not care for dynamics any more, not like they used to. What they care for now is heavy multi-band limiting, and if you like Skrillex then you also enjoy not using the same sound for no longer than 6 seconds. Which to me sounds like an utter mess but obviously is a well working formula to sell music so good for him.

[RightOnRome]

Originally Posted by complex

Kids do not care for dynamics any more, not like they used to. What they care for now is heavy multi-band limiting, and if you like Skrillex then you also enjoy not using the same sound for no longer than 6 seconds. Which to me sounds like an utter mess but obviously is a well working formula to sell music so good for him.

i am just saying its quite loud dude.. nothing more ..nothing less.. its hard to explain that to a client who plays rock keys [like muse] and wants to compete with this..

[Magucci]

Make it as loud or louder and with enough bass/heavy low end and he'll always come back to you.
It's the only way to make those clients happy.
It's a real shame, but it's reality.

[RightOnRome]

Originally Posted by Magucci

Make it as loud or louder and with enough bass/heavy low end and he'll always come back to you.
It's the only way to make those clients happy.
It's a real shame, but it's reality.

yes i get that.. but have you listened to it.. there is some serious mastering happening .. its loud ..but very clean and transparent .. good bass .. no pumping compression.... maybe it ends up at an Antelope Audio box for conversion..

[Magucci]

No doubt quality gear was used on this product.
There're also other amazing converters like Lavry Gold or Forssell.

[Chucho]

Originally Posted by RightOnRome

"bangarang"..has any one herd this.. crazy space music louder then everything out there.. i have a client that loves it and gave me the cd to check out... wow ..unreal

Given that we all have volume knobs isn't it a pointless competition to get into ?

[psycho_monkey]

Originally Posted by RightOnRome

.... maybe it ends up at an Antelope Audio box for conversion..

Why on earth would you come to that conclusion? Maybe it's just well mixed, well mastered, and the genre means that mashing it on the mixbuss compression doesn't harm the music in the same way it would with a more subtle style?

I really can't see how someone can make conclusions about a converter here!

[deft_bonz]

Originally Posted by RightOnRome

yes i get that.. but have you listened to it.. there is some serious mastering happening .. its loud ..but very clean and transparent .. good bass .. no pumping compression.... maybe it ends up at an Antelope Audio box for conversion..

crazy loud
but really good mastered. doesn't sound distorted, or heavily compressed or clipped.

the trick is using just a few instruments/tracks. in bangarang most of the time there is just the beat (kick, snare-clap, one hihat) plus bassline. the voice is only playing when there is no bass.

with only 3 instruments you have much more space for each. i did the same once with a minimal techno track. minimal beat, bass, guitar, that was all. the track mastered was somewhere at -3 to -4db RMS, without heavy mastering settings. it was loud as hell, like bangarang, but not distorted.

[combfilter]

Originally Posted by Chucho

Given that we all have volume knobs isn't it a pointless competition to get into ?

Apparently not everyone remembers what their volume knob is there for. Or their ears, for that matter.

[combfilter]

Originally Posted by deft_bonz

crazy loud
but really good mastered. doesn't sound distorted, or heavily compressed or clipped.

the trick is using just a few instruments/tracks. in bangarang most of the time there is just the beat (kick, snare-clap, one hihat) plus bassline. the voice is only playing when there is no bass.

with only 3 instruments you have much more space for each. i did the same once with a minimal techno track. minimal beat, bass, guitar, that was all. the track mastered was somewhere at -3 to -4db RMS, without heavy mastering settings. it was loud as hell, like bangarang, but not distorted.

Yes. Arrangement is the key in my opinion.

The fewer elements you have in your mix, the louder it can sound. Seems counter-intuitive but recorded music doesn't follow the same rules as live music

[Apollo Soul]

Originally Posted by deft_bonz

crazy loud
but really good mastered. doesn't sound distorted, or heavily compressed or clipped.

the trick is using just a few instruments/tracks. in bangarang most of the time there is just the beat (kick, snare-clap, one hihat) plus bassline. the voice is only playing when there is no bass.

with only 3 instruments you have much more space for each. i did the same once with a minimal techno track. minimal beat, bass, guitar, that was all. the track mastered was somewhere at -3 to -4db RMS, without heavy mastering settings. it was loud as hell, like bangarang, but not distorted.

Yeah. You have to really COMMIT to that kind of loudness... to the point where your entire arrangement revolves around it.

As a side note, I recently sent 4 songs to a few people for feedback. I had purposefully NOT looked at meters, and just mastered each to the point where I felt it was reasonably modern in it's limiting/loudness, but relatively distortion free and to where I still liked the sound. LISTENING only. No meters. Each done on it's own merits.

Two of the songs had more midrange instruments, and more instrumentation overall.

ALL FIVE people reported back first and foremost that there was something wrong with two of the songs because they weren't as loud as the other two. (Yes, the two that generated complaints of not being loud enough were the ones with more instrumentation, some electric keys, organ, etc... things that competed for vocal range and hit at same time with vocals.

Is what it is. The whole debate is about as moot as it gets... and I mean that in the genuine sense of the word, not the "Jesse's Girl" misconception of it that's so prevalent.

[The Listener]

Well, you can get Nintendo kind of sounds really loud... it is the mix and the arrangement and the particular genre that allows that kind of aesthetics.

It can't work for rock or acoustic styles unless you EQ the sounds to be similarly unnaturally limited in frequency range as those sounds and everything only taking its own space. What sounds proper for dubstep would sound really bad for more acoustic styles.

Apparently the only mastering there is on those albums is iZotope Maximizer.

Interview: Skrillex on Ableton Live, plug-ins, production and more | MusicRadar.com

[Arksun]

Yup its all about the musical style.

For example if you tried to make a trance track sound as loud as Skrillex's stuff it would be such a distorted hideous mess.

Like it or hate it, the dubstep genre is very much a genre of our age, which is the bombastic in your face generation. It's all about big powerful singular sounds, but one at a time. You thrust those punch percussions one by one and likewise with the sounds its all about creating one massive screaming sound one after the other sometimes holding the note sometimes very quick jumps.

Because there isn't lots of multiple sounds going on at once, it means you can focus on making that one sound as huge as possible taking up all the available bandwidth. The dynamics then come from the spaces in-between, ie its more about the use of timing.

Trying to create that big sound with equal loudness with a mix that has many layers simultaneously is just impossible.

[The Listener]

Originally Posted by Arksun

Yup its all about the musical style.

For example if you tried to make a trance track sound as loud as Skrillex's stuff it would be such a distorted hideous mess.

Like it or hate it, the dubstep genre is very much a genre of our age, which is the bombastic in your face generation. It's all about big powerful singular sounds, but one at a time. You thrust those punch percussions one by one and likewise with the sounds its all about creating one massive screaming sound one after the other sometimes holding the note sometimes very quick jumps.

Because there isn't lots of multiple sounds going on at once, it means you can focus on making that one sound as huge as possible taking up all the available bandwidth. The dynamics then come from the spaces in-between, ie its more about the use of timing.

Trying to create that big sound with equal loudness with a mix that has many layers simultaneously is just impossible.

Very well put.

I once had difficulties making an indie compilation where one electronic artist that used a lot of lean 8-bit sounds and sparse arrangements had his tracks slammed into unbelieavable loudness - I think it was even louder than this Skrillex thing. Eventually the rock indy and electronica indy met half way - one had to be mastered louder than intended and another a bit tamed down and made less harsh and in your face - actually it sounded better in the end.

A good demonstration how not all styles can be made that loud is - a track that features The Doors members - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUA8OzQxGxE - the percussion and other acoustic instruments sound really bad, scooped, overcompressed, just like some sound FX in the background, while the lean and tight synths overwhelm the sound picture. It is OK as an artistic choice within this context - I am not saying that it doesn't sound adequate for this song - it fits - but if you would want to produce a world fusion electronica album and the acoustic stuff would sound like that throughout the album it would be really really bad. And as we can hear - those sounds were not made any louder - only the lean synth sounds can get brutally loud. Also - the EQ picture is really scooped - the headroom eating low mids are almost completely gone (that's why that percussion in that song doesn't sound good on its own) - there is rather hyped high end and strong bass, but again - only one strong main element at the time in quick succession - well, that's dubstep and I like it for what it is and think Skrillex is good at what he does, but I hope the confused clients won't expect the same loudness and style from other kinds of music. Dubstep is really the music of the beginning of 21st century, using everything that would be considered "bad" previously to its advantage.

[Seb RIOU]

Originally Posted by Arksun

Yup its all about the musical style.

For example if you tried to make a trance track sound as loud as Skrillex's stuff it would be such a distorted hideous mess.

Like it or hate it, the dubstep genre is very much a genre of our age, which is the bombastic in your face generation. It's all about big powerful singular sounds, but one at a time. You thrust those punch percussions one by one and likewise with the sounds its all about creating one massive screaming sound one after the other sometimes holding the note sometimes very quick jumps.

Because there isn't lots of multiple sounds going on at once, it means you can focus on making that one sound as huge as possible taking up all the available bandwidth. The dynamics then come from the spaces in-between, ie its more about the use of timing.

Trying to create that big sound with equal loudness with a mix that has many layers simultaneously is just impossible.

exactly that

[Storyville]

Actually, I won the loudness war. I made a 2khz sine wave, set it to peak at -0.1db - RMS level was at -0.1db. That thing was WAY louder than anything out, by a lot. I imagine people will LOVE this.

[mainstreamdjs]

the funny thing is everything from mixdown to master is done by him on a macbook pro and two krk rockit 5s (one of them broken) with just your everyday vsts.....its loud as hell...but it sounds really good.

[Apollo Soul]

This one sounds better I think in terms of the space, sparse syncopated thing:

SKRILLEX - SUMMIT (FT. ELLIE GOULDING) - YouTube


It works both ways, actually. Yes, it's foolish for someone making folk music to push for this sort of loudness, but the flipside is that this music wouldn't work otherwise.

It FITS the style. A little more creativity and a more advanced sense of arrangement wouldn't hurt either, but it sounds pretty decent overall. I actually kind of like it, but I'm also aware that it would be boring as hell WITHOUT the extreme pumping and living on the edge push to it.

Frankly, I'd say that anyone producing something similar and NOT pushing the edge a bit is missing the boat every bit as much as someone making indie rock and trying to take it to this level.

[RightOnRome]

Originally Posted by psycho_monkey

Why on earth would you come to that conclusion? Maybe it's just well mixed, well mastered, and the genre means that mashing it on the mixbuss compression doesn't harm the music in the same way it would with a more subtle style?

I really can't see how someone can make conclusions about a converter here!

sorry.. i was feeling like my rosetta wasnt cutting it and just threw Antelope out there because i was looking at the Eclipse [it looks quite nice].. after trying to match skrillex in volume for my client i went for other music closer to his [rock - real band with lots of keys and hvy gtrs] and it sounded great even better then a well respected peers band .. so lesson learned .. but i always want to know what they are listening to and comparing in there cars so we can have this conversation and move on.. the loudness war is so fkn stupid

[BillSimpkins]

Skrillex is really setting a new standard for super clean arrangements and mixes, which allow for this kind of loudness to still sound OK and be punchy.

I don't know if you've ever cranked this stuff with good subs in the room, but it is super clean. The sonics at his concert were unreal.

[RightOnRome]

Originally Posted by BillSimpkins

Skrillex is really setting a new standard for super clean arrangements and mixes, which allow for this kind of loudness to still sound OK and be punchy.

I don't know if you've ever cranked this stuff with good subs in the room, but it is super clean. The sonics at his concert were unreal.

yea i did .. i have a powered event 15 in studio..sounded great...I also have some jbl728's .. I'll check it out on them next week

[StringBean]

Originally Posted by BillSimpkins

Skrillex is really setting a new standard for super clean arrangements and mixes, which allow for this kind of loudness to still sound OK and be punchy.

I don't know if you've ever cranked this stuff with good subs in the room, but it is super clean. The sonics at his concert were unreal.

No he's a talent-less hack, didn't you get the GS memo?

[Arksun]

Originally Posted by BillSimpkins

Skrillex is really setting a new standard for super clean arrangements and mixes, which allow for this kind of loudness to still sound OK and be punchy.

I don't know if you've ever cranked this stuff with good subs in the room, but it is super clean. The sonics at his concert were unreal.

Yup, as much as I hate the loudness wars myself, and also don't feel most dubstep at all, I couldn't help but be rather blown away by this particular track:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cXDgFwE13g


Unbelievable sound, put a huge grin on my face when it kicks in @1:26 blasting this out. Maybe I'm succumbing to the dubstep darkside after all

[RightOnRome]

Originally Posted by Arksun

Yup, as much as I hate the loudness wars myself, and also don't feel most dubstep at all, I couldn't help but be rather blown away by this particular track:

First Of The Year (Equinox) - Skrillex [OFFICIAL] - YouTube


Unbelievable sound, put a huge grin on my face when it kicks in @1:26 blasting this out. Maybe I'm succumbing to the dubstep darkside after all

oh god... that was disturbing .. i cant take too much of it.. im gona put on some cat stevens now ...

[E.rOk.stA]

Originally Posted by mainstreamdjs

the funny thing is everything from mixdown to master is done by him on a macbook pro and two krk rockit 5s (one of them broken) with just your everyday vsts.....its loud as hell...but it sounds really good.

There's no way that he mastered that himself. Maybe and a big maybe, he mixed it. It just sounds waay too good. He could quit making music and just engineer.

That said, I love this album!

[psycho_monkey]

Originally Posted by RightOnRome

sorry.. i was feeling like my rosetta wasnt cutting it and just threw Antelope out there because i was looking at the Eclipse [it looks quite nice].. after trying to match skrillex in volume for my client i went for other music closer to his [rock - real band with lots of keys and hvy gtrs] and it sounded great even better then a well respected peers band .. so lesson learned .. but i always want to know what they are listening to and comparing in there cars so we can have this conversation and move on.. the loudness war is so fkn stupid

Converters don't make that sort of difference. Quality throughout does.

[The Real MC]

Not only do kids care less about dynamics, but a good majority are going to suffer hearing loss with too much of that stuff pumping through the earbuds.

[boon]

Originally Posted by combfilter

Apparently not everyone remembers what their volume knob is there for. Or their ears, for that matter.

[RightOnRome]

Originally Posted by psycho_monkey

Converters don't make that sort of difference. Quality throughout does.

im sorry but converters make a huge difference in my world