Do I need a BIGGER Knob??

[SoLo]

hi!I have a simple question for you audio experts.. ( i'm learnig a lot from this forum..if i knew before i could have spent my SAE's 2 years money in TONS of outboard...!!).
I'm saving money to buy a monitor controller for my dynaudio bm6.. but while I was considering Mackie Big knob , I found on Italian website this
simple controller made by sm pro audio :
http://www.smproaudio.com/MPATCH2.htm
The price is very good , 130euros, and it says that is passive, so I guess it must not "colour" the sound..
The mackie big knob has great features, like 2 headphones,talkback mic.. but I only need a monitor controller that does not "change" the sound coming from the converters when I'm mixing..
Do you think this sm pro audio could be a good purchase or I need to wait and save money for the Mackie?
Please, excuse my bad english...!
Peace!

Stefano

[nathanvacha]

Everything I've heard about the mackie is that it's anything but uncolored.

[s_sibs]

Stefano

If you're just looking for a passive switcher box for powered monitors, check out this from Coleman Audio.

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/LS3/

I used to have one and it worked great. I ended up getting the Mackie Big Knob because I needed the talkback function plus I could monitor many more sources (CD player, turn table, DAW mix, etc.)

Hope this helps.

[SoLo]

thanx!! I'll definitely look at that option , if I can find an european shop, since everytime I buy something in Usa i have to pay expensive customs!!

[warhead]

The Big Knob probably "colors" the sound as much or less than many consoles...it's not like you're running it through some shit-a-lator! Many of those passive pots don't track left to right well at ALL...there is give and take with all of these devices. It's an inexpensive device that does a job, if you want better spend the bucks.

War

[lofi]

i like small knobs... dac-1 does it for me but thats another story...

i guess the only solution is switching pot with matched resistors and k-system....

[tamasdragon]

It's so funny to see this. In a thread many just praised mpatch as a very good solution, even better than mackie big knob, and than on the same forum mpatch is not so good. So than where is the truth? Is mpatch good or not?
Regards Tamas Dragon

[warhead]

Originally Posted by tamasdragon

It's so funny to see this. In a thread many just praised mpatch as a very good solution, even better than mackie big knob, and than on the same forum mpatch is not so good. So than where is the truth? Is mpatch good or not?
Regards Tamas Dragon

I haven't seen anyone here say anything against the SMPro.

That being said, again these entry level passive pot solutions are hit and miss. You'd be amazed how off from left to right many of them are.

War

[tamasdragon]

Is the warranty cover these things like left rigt are not the same? Or I am childish in this? I have read that pvc or whatever is not good in left right balance, but every mpatch user said that their unit is fine. I really would like know, because I plan to buy an mpatch 2, but if there's too many bad with them, than I won't.
Regards Tamas Dragon

[warhead]

Your best bet is to buy one and if it doesn't work out send it back / exchange it.

Listen to the first 30-40% of the turn for the biggest variance.

War

[squeegybug]

The SMPro Mpatch (original model) I had was junk. *Very* cheap quality, flimsy. One channel was completely gone from the Aux input, and the pots/connectors kept dropping in and out of the mains. YMMV

I got an ATTY to replace it, and it had some problems as well. Volume shifts at low levels, as also reported by many others. Scratch and noise when adjusting, and the pot itself was very stiff and would bind in part of the rotation.

Then I got a Central Station. The first one (B-stock) almost caught on fire the instant I plugged it in. Ozone and tremendous heat from the power supply. Exchanged for another B-stock. This one had a big hum and sound bleed from the unselected speaker output. Tried one last time and exchanged for a new one. So far it seems to be ok. Does not color the sound (I recorded A/B with it in and out).

Maybe I'll try Coleman if this latest CS crashes..... but no outboard attenuators for level matching on the Colemans, have to add that if your amps/speakers don't have them. And no simultaneous subwoofer output, it's one at a time only. And cost twice the CS.

SPS? No, I need rackmount. And it's the same thing as Coleman on the output levels.

Some friends have the Goldpoint and like it. Almost $600 I think, for a stepped attenuator, no routing.

I guess NHT doesn't have complaints, that I have seen. Just a volume control, $100.

Or buy the parts from DACT and build one.

Steve

[andymixer]

I think the general consensus is that you have to buy three Central Stations before you get one that works right. Once you do get it right though the thing is a dream.

[frontierfran]

learn the color of the mackie, like any monitor itself. work with it. around it.

[nathanvacha]

Warren, this is completely off-topic, but is that you in your new avatar pic? You gotta love the internet, I completely would have assumed you were several years older than that...

[espasonico]

I only bought one Central Station and works great. I suppose B-stocks are B-stocks because of something.

[bob katz]

Originally Posted by espasonico

I only bought one Central Station and works great. I suppose B-stocks are B-stocks because of something.

If you're looking for a purist sound and not expensive, but a bit more expensive than the big knob, there's either do-it-yourself or, even better, ASK Fred Forssell.

I've built one of my own that's almost as good as Fred's because it uses Fred's opamps, but it has a coupling cap on its output instead of a DC servo. Then I asked Fred to build one for me with a DC servo and it sounds fabulous---clean clear, transparent, solid. It's basically a line stage preamp in a box with power supply two line inputs, Fred's discrete opamps, and a TKD stereo 1 dB/step attenuator. The TKD attenuator alone cost me $250 new. I've built about 3 custom attenuators with Shalco and other switches in my life and a couple are still sitting in the garage. If you can solder and select 1% resistors you can build one for a lot less than $250, unless you want to count your hourly rate!

If you can go unbalanced I'm sure Fred has a PC board ready and can outfit you a box with a knob and power supply for $1k to $2K. If you need all the features of the Mackie Big Knob they're lacking. This is a basic box with input and output, whose concentration is GOOD SOUND. Should Fred make a "Big knob" replacement? Yeah, in his copious free time. If all you need is a couple of inputs and one stereo output, and equal to the best sounding monitor controller in the world, call Fred.

My personal favorite is the Avocet, and I own one, but that will set you back big bucks. Fred's old controller is still in use here, in Studio B.

BK

[raydo]

Originally Posted by espasonico

I only bought one Central Station and works great. I suppose B-stocks are B-stocks because of something.

Ditto:
I originally bought a Mackie Big Knob
Loved how it looked
But it sounded like crap
sent it back
the same day i got it

[SoLo]

THANX to all you guys that helped me( I couldn't believe I had suggestions from MR KATZ!! )..I'm having a look to all the options you suggested me, ...er...actually I'm spending more time in this forum that playing synths and tweaking my ( few ) outboards..

NOW I need a GEARSLUTZ official T-SHIRT!!!

ciao!!!!

Stefano

[BouncyJones]

Hello,
First of all, this is sort of my first post so I thought I would start off by saying that this is a great forum and I've learned a lot just reading around here. Thanks to one and all for sharing their opinions.

I am a man of limited means and had had suggested to me today that an equalizer could function as a kind of monitor switcher. My soundcard has RCA outs, which go to 1/4 inch ins in the back of my Event 6 monitors. I'd really like to be able to listen to my headphones at the same time, and even only the headphones without the speakers. So, yes yes yes, an equalizer would colour the sound I am sure, but could it technically serve this function?

Does anyone have any other simple solutions, perhaps?

Jonathan

[Dopamine]

Any other opinions about the Mackie Big Knob? I love the feature set, but do not want something that sacrifices the sound. I am currently monitoring thru an older Yamaha digital mixer (03D) and figured the Mackie would be a big improvement since I wouldn't need to go thru any conversion. Any advice appreciated!

[F5D]

I got an M-Patch 2 today and I've been testing it for 2 hours now. It seems to be well built. I opened it to find out what's inside:



Closer picture of the potentiometers can be found here
They are labeled H.T A5K HT.

Ok, all I can say that the sound quality increased dramatically after connecting this thing to my system!

My monitoring system now consists of a MOTU 828 mk2 -> M-Patch 2 -> Rotel RB-980BX amp -> Dynaudio BM15. Without the M-Patch 2 I had to control the volume with 828 which ruined the sound digitally.

Finally I can use the full resolution of the converters. I hear alot more dynamics, deeper and punchier bass, clearer and more transparent highs and even wider and deeper stereo sound field. The difference in sound quality is dramatic. And the D/A-converter noise when listening at low levels is gone too. Altough some people don't like MOTU's converters, connecting the mpatch2 to the system was like switching the D/A-converters or even more for me. I wonder how the system would sound with even better converters...

The M-Patch 2 feels solid and very good for the price. The pots have a nice feel when turning and the big knob really helps adjusting the volume. At the beginning of the turn the sound comes first from the left speaker but you don't have to turn the knob much to get balanced levels so that's not an issue. I haven't tried the headphone amp yet because my main interest was using the passive attenuation. I don't have the power supply connected at all. The stereo/mono switch also works with monitor outs.

All I can say now that everybody should use a passive volume controller.

Btw, does anybody know should I use the full output volume with my 828 mk2... (0 dB) or -0.1, -0.2, -0.3, -1 dB ? I am now using the 0dB setting and sometimes the level meters jump to red. Does this mean that the signal is clipping?

[dbm]

"Do I need a BIGGER Knob?? "

Im sorry, but this is a question for your significant other and I'll thank you to keep me out of it. Good day to you sir.

Sorry. I couldn't resist. I have the mind of a 12 year old.

[Blind]

great thread.... i am also looking for a better monitor solution right now...

i thought about the bigknob too but if the mpatch does it better? ...
Take em' both! (just kiddin... the gearslut inside me...)

I am looking forward to reading a bunch of other opinions...


Blind

[F5D]

I just tried the M-Patch 2's headphone amp with Sennheiser HD650 headphones and it felt very cheap. Somehow it didn't have enough juice to drive the headphones and sounded a little strange. I will use the 828 mk2 headphone out untill I get a fireface or another better audio interface with a good headphone amp. Anyway, the passive attenuation of M-Patch 2 works very well. To use the headphone amp you have to connect the power supply (of course) and when you do so, a bright annoying blue led comes up among other more useful green, yellow and red leds. I will be using the box without the power supply.