PA speakers OEM - Trying to make a PA cab that sounds as smooth as studio monitors

[edham]

My latest grail is to build PA speakers that sound like studio monitors only LOUD.
300 watt handling.
Used mainly for my guitar rig (yes I use stereo full range cabs) and possibly for a keyboard rig.

RCF's are my current rig. (damn mackie for buying RCF)(please no guitar amp suggestions).
They sound great but fall apart at volume. Plus I'd like to move the crossover up to about 3k just to get away from that 1K sound.

So my question to the brain trust here at GS is - what OEM speakers are the bomb at the moment.
Smooth freq plots, lightweight and clean power handling. (not asking much!).
2 or 3 way systems.

Sorry for the OT post but good info on the subject is hard to come by and I am continually amazed at the data stored you ya'lls heads.

thanks!

[azrix]

There is nothing wrong with a 1khz crossover frequency with compression drivers. 1khz is arguably high if you have a 2" compression driver. The 2"'ers can be used down to 500hz usually, though that isn't a great idea if you're going to be using it for PA and not home stereo use.

These suggestions do not come from experience, unfortunately, but I have spent a large amount of time studying speaker design. My suggestions are more about what will sound good. Take these suggestions with however much salt you want.

Probably the easiest to find is Peavey. Go with a model with their "Quadratic Throat Waveguide". They are the ones that will sound the best. The Renkus Heinz models with waveguides should be good if you can find them. Don't know how common they are in the States. The middle to upper end JBL Pro models are usually a good choice. You could also call up Assistance Audio. They sell Coda speakers and BMS parts and DDS horns. The Coda speakers with elliptical waveguides will most likely sound the best. They should be good. Assistance Audio will also sell you kits so you can DIY if you're up to that. The DDS CFD 2-90X Pro would be your best bet for a horn, but they're BIG (21" wide), so I don't know if that would work for you.

That's what I'd be looking at. Take what you will from it.

[tINY]

You want studio monitors, only louder? So you don't want controlled dispersion?

In that case - look for three-way designs with 6" to 10" midranges.


http://www.eaw.com/products/LA325.html

http://www.jblpro.com/srx700/738.htm

http://www.cerwin-vega.com/products/...x/psx-153.html




-tINY

[edham]

Guys - thanks for the posts!

Correct that I do not need/want controlled dispersion. Not trying to laser beam into a particular area- Really looking for broad dispersion.

The links are much appreciated.

to give you a better idea of the ultimate design - I am thinking
12"bass, 8"mid (or 6") and a HF driver.
The 12" possible down firing.

Need to put them in a much smaller cab that will include a class D super small power amp and crossover.

Basically looking to make a larger version of
http://www.acousticimg.com/products/prod_coda.html

I have a focusrite pre/eq that I love in my rack so its just about building cabs that have more power. Thus my research into OEM speakers.
Who is the OEM speaker manufacturer for EAW et al.
And where to purchase them from.

Thanks again gents!!

[Sam Lord]

Originally Posted by edham

Guys - thanks for the posts! Correct that I do not need/want controlled dispersion. Not trying to laser beam into a particular area- Really looking for broad dispersion....to give you a better idea of the ultimate design - I am thinking 12"bass, 8"mid (or 6") and a HF driver. The 12" possible down firing. Need to put them in a much smaller cab that will include a class D super small power amp and crossover...

Don't down- or side-fire the woofer, ever, period. Time-align ALL drivers for your specific ear position. I'd say take a hard look at the Yorkville Unity U15
(http://www.yorkville.com/products.as...&cat=38&id=254)
--if you can build a speaker that loud and that good for under $950ea, go for it--a *brilliant* time-aligned 3-way. Or maybe JBL 6332 monitors. And glue stone or concrete to all sides (or at least the biggest faces), keep all edges rounded, then cover with very thick felt to do more to improve sound per dollar than almost anything. Oh yeah, all else being equal, 6" midranges are way more articulate than 8"s. Just as 12" basses are better-sounding, within excursion limits, than 15"s. And couple those babies *solidly* to the floor--as in welding. Hard-surface to hard-surface...and cones, spikes do fine--no rubbery stuff.
Good luck

[edham]

Thanks Sam for the input.

So things narrow down to -
12 woofer
6 inch mid (and I'd like it to be smooth to 3k)
HF driver with wide dispersion that sounds really natural and not shrill.

Any ideas on particular speakers for this project?

What sounds killer and in a perfect fantasy would also be light weight.

Thanks!

[Dave Peck]

If you really want some SR gear that sounds as good as a studio monitor, you may want to check out http://www.meyersound.com. Especially the CQ-1 and UPA1-P.

DP

[edham]

I've been using these
http://www.rcf.it/VediMacro.phtml?ID...&m2=0&m3=0_0_2

They sound amazing.

For guitar the crossover at 1k ish is too harsh - thus the quest to go three way and have a mid driver cover up to 3k.

Also hating horns. Too throaty.
Looking for a HF scenario that has wide dispersion and a more natural top end.

The available three way cabs use either 15" or 18" LF drivers. For my purpose 12"s would be better.
And smaller lighter cabs are a must. Will build those.
It's all about finding the right drivers and crossover at this point.

thanks for the posts.!!

[azrix]

You say you have the RCF Art 312, correct? It sounds to me like you may be attributing your problems with the PA speakers you have to all PA speakers. Some horns are better than others. I believe the "throaty" sound you're talking about is due to a crappy horn design. There are better designs out there. Those Peavey horns I mentioned earlier are most likely going to be one of the best sounding horns you're going to find on a PA speaker. Try them out and see if they don't work for you.

The problem is you're not going to get any louder that a normal small two way studio monitor without using a compression driver for the high end. Also, the speakers you say you're using now don't have a 1Khz crossover, they have a 1.8Khz crossover. Big difference. If what you don't like about the speakers you have now is centered around 1Khz, it's most likely caused by having the woofer go to high in frequency and getting nasty breakup at higher volumes. In that case try the RCF Art 322 or Art 325. They have much lower crossovers, at 1.2Khz, and they can do that because they use 2" compression drivers, instead of the 1" ones on the speakers you have. Have you measured the level you're pushing your speakers to? You may be asking more out of them than they can give, which will most definitely sound bad.

The weight of a PA speaker is mostly in it's cabinet and the woofer magnet. Going with neodymium woofers will help a lot with weight. With the cabinet, going with plastic/composite construction will help, but I'm not sure how much.

If you really want to build it yourself, I'd be looking at PHL speakers or B&C speakers. There are dozens of other driver brands. There's too many good ones to list really.

[edham]

Azrix,tiny,Sam,Dave - guys thanks for the links! They have been a lot of help.

[tINY]

Drivers, huh? There is a company called Madisound that has some interesting things for sale. Here are a few to look at:

http://www.madisound.com/cgi-bin/ind...7.4009&pid=107
http://www.madisound.com/cgi-bin/ind....4009&pid=1833
http://www.madisound.com/cgi-bin/ind..._id%%&pid=1700

HF drivers that play loud are a bit more problematic. If they are big enough to take the power you want to subject them to, then they are big compared to a wavelength of the frequencies you want them to reproduce. That means that you either get break-up of the radiator surface, or you have to use multiple radiators (or something more like a big ribbon tweeter). Horn loading can ease some of these problems, but you get restricted beamwidths.....






-tINY

[username]

the only decent sized PA that I've heard that I can compare (in sound quality) to a good set of monitors is the nexo Geo S.. ... sounds like thats abit out of your price range though

[squeegybug]

www.slsloudspeakers.com

These guys make it all. Studio monitors to 2-way/3-way FOH/Wedge boxes to full Line Arrays. All with the same extreme fidelity ribbons.

A live concert with SLS speakers is something to hear.

Steve

[max cooper]

ATC is doing live-sound speakers now. Might want to have a look.

http://www.transaudiogroup.com/speakers-install.shtml

[I C LIGHT]

Bag End speakers can be used for Pa speaker Or at least i think far-field studio speakers. There flat uncolored responce is great. Every-body only talks about there subwoolfers. They are expensive. There 12 inch an tweeter for voice. or 15 in' tweeter for a more roomy full sound. I love them. Ther new line is improved so check them out.
Those Meyer speakers are great. Just visit the next concert in town.
Or maybe the top of the line EV.