e-cue "DW Drum kits tuned to the key of the song we are working on"

15th September 2003, 01:23 AM

e-cue

"DW Drum kits tuned to the key of the song we are working on"

How do you go about seting that up, where do ya start?

I often run into agrivation with toms 'beating' (in a bad way) if they are tuned closely to notes in a song...

so I am wary with this, I had a great experience with a knoble & kooley kit but cant rent one, I have been offered a DW "collectors" series and the tuneing coment has me interested...

paterno · 15th September 2003, 01:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jules
e-cue

"DW Drum kits tuned to the key of the song we are working on"

How do you go about seting that up, where do ya start?

I often run into agrivation with toms 'beating' (in a bad way) if they are tuned closely to notes in a song... so I am wary with this, I had a great experience with a knoble & kooley kit but cant rent one, I have been offered a DW "collectors" series and the tuneing coment has me interested...

Hey Jules --

I have two conflicting philosophies on this for you:

First of all, I'm 99% sure all DW kits come with a stamp on the inside of the tom's shell indicating the pitch of the shell resonance. I always figured that this would be considered the optimal pitch based on the dimensions of the drum for best the tone.

Now with that said, i have worked with drummers in the past who ask about the key of the song and use a guitar tuner to get the toms to pitch with the song.

I personally prefer a drum that is tuned for the best tone than one that is in tune but does not speak as well...

Cheers,
John

e-cue · 15th September 2003, 02:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by paterno
I personally prefer a drum that is tuned for the best tone than one that is in tune but does not speak as well...

Cheers,
John

I've never had that problem with DW kits, not yet anyway.

Usually, here's how I go about it, and I know this is kinda weird when now a days everyone seems to START tracking with the drums (reason #7284948 why demos are important): I listen to the track. Get the key of the song, and take note of any modulation changes or bridge parts, etc. Then I put a call into Drum Doctors (in LA) to rent a drum kit. Their staff are experts. They don't act like Guitar Center employees. Anyway, I tell them the key of the song, I let them know what type of song it is (country ballad, hard rock driven, gospel up tempo, etc) and what specific room I'll be working at in town. Most of the guys there KNOW the live rooms in town, and which kits have worked best in those rooms. They'll drop off the kit, and usually some extras (cymbals, at least 3 different snares, sticks, heads, etc) and get them tuned up for you. They are also rad about sticking around to jam for a bit so you can GOBO accordingly if you need to, and usually don't mind sticking around to help you mic the kit. I love having everything set up as much as possible so when the drummer walks in the booth and begins warming up, it gives me a chance to make any last minute changes. By the time he/she is warmed up, I'm ready to record.

Getting the kick in tune with the song is most important to me, so sometimes renting just a kick will do the trick. Keep in mind, I'm coming from a renters point of view. I don't know that buying a kit would be the best plain of action (although if I did buy one, honestly, I'd probably go with a DW, or something vintage like a Rogers).

Note: If the drummer is doing any rim hits, like on Radiohead's "There, There" (and I don't know if they used DW kits or not), I highly suggest using the tuned drums method. Next time you are around a DW kit and have time, take off the heads and shells and give the side of the shell a wack with a drum stick. It was an eye opening experience, for me anyway.

Jay Kahrs · 15th September 2003, 02:18 AM

I think the whole DW "note" thing makes sense to a point. What happens when you put all the hardware back on the shell? The resonant note changes. Take a tom, any tom and tune it away from the drums and hit it, then hold it over a bass drum and it hit again. Sounds like a totally different drum. Tune the drums to sound good. Sometimes that requires retuning for new songs. Tuning to a specific note is a waste of time IMHO.

toledo3 · 15th September 2003, 02:45 AM

Mmm, tuning to a specific note isn't a waste of time, especially if it is a song where the toms play a heavy role in establishing the beat. If there is a lot of floor tom riding, or a big tom part ala Green Day "Longview" or "Wipeout", the toms are basically playing "licks" and require a certain note sequence. In some songs there is a much greater leeway.

Each drum does have it's resonant frequency, and you can't get around that. But that STILL allows for variation. For example, if the resonant frequency of a tom was around a C note, one could tune it to C, A, Ab, G, F, E, Eb, etc.

As far as "beating" goes, you can tune the top maybe an 1/8 or 1/4 step flat so that when you hit the drum and the note goes sharp, it actually comes "up" into tune, and "choruses" a little on the decay.

It's worth experimenting with the heads on various kits as well. Different thicknesses require different tension to produce the same pitch.

Jules, do you know the basic method of tuning drums? I find that sometimes the drummers can be the worst judge of tuning the kit, so it necessitates intervention.

I think ecue's suggestion of renting from a drum service shop is good though.

e-cue · 15th September 2003, 02:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jay Kahrs
I think the whole DW "note" thing makes sense to a point. What happens when you put all the hardware back on the shell? The resonant note changes. Take a tom, any tom and tune it away from the drums and hit it, then hold it over a bass drum and it hit again. Sounds like a totally different drum. Tune the drums to sound good. Sometimes that requires retuning for new songs. Tuning to a specific note is a waste of time IMHO.

To each his/her own I guess. It works for me great. If you have tried it with a DW kit tuned to the key of the song and it didn't work for you, well, I don't know what to say. I haven't had that problem. But I suggest everyone at least try it once for themselves to see if it makes life easier for them.

The drums are 'tuned' to a resonant timbre so you can choose more than one note on each drum.

Also, I like tuning the bottom head up/down a little sometimes for a pitch-bend kind of sound. *BEYOUNNnnn* instead of "Blouw*

toledo3 · 15th September 2003, 02:55 AM

Personally, I am really liking the new Gretsch top of the like kit with floating mounts and all of that. I like it better than my buddy's DW, but that is just my opinion. The Gretsch, DW, and Yamaha Custom's tend to be my favored kits. The yamaha's with the really thin layer of laquer are great for jazz stuff.

BattleAngel · 15th September 2003, 03:00 AM

The coolest kit I've played recently is a Tama Starclassic Exotic made from Koa and Bubinga with a goatskin head. Talk about a radical sound.

And I personally think tuning to the song is a great idea- I've found that it makes things sound a lot more coherant somehow.

e-cue · 15th September 2003, 03:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BattleAngel
The coolest kit I've played recently is a Tama Starclassic Exotic made from Koa and Bubinga with a goatskin head.

??!!! Wow...

Where'd you play this? The backwooods of Africa?

I'd love to try that one out!

BattleAngel · 15th September 2003, 03:24 AM

Actually, at Manny's in the city. I'd LOVE to own one of these just for the kick. Check it out:

http://www.tama.com/museum/frameset-drumsets.html

The kick is just really deep and rich.

BattleAngel · 15th September 2003, 03:27 AM

Other cool kits I've come across are the Whitney Penguin line and Canopus Drums.

http://www.whitneydrums.com/

http://www.canopusdrums.com/

I go for really pure, hi-fi drum sounds and the richness of these kits are really something to behold.

ozraves · 15th September 2003, 03:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by e-cue
Then I put a call into Drum Doctors (in LA) to rent a drum kit. Their staff are experts. They don't act like Guitar Center employees.

One of my buds was in a band called Defenestration back in the 1980s. They got a record deal and went to LA to record with producer Randy Burns. I loved the drums on that record. My bud told me all about the Drum Doctors at the time. It made a huge impression on me at the time.

So, if you ever get to hear "Dali Does Windows" by Defenestration then it's an old Gretsch kit from the Drum Doctors. Good stuff.

Steve
www.mojopie.com

alphajerk · 15th September 2003, 04:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by e-cue
Note: If the drummer is doing any rim hits, like on Radiohead's "There, There" (and I don't know if they used DW kits or not), I highly suggest using the tuned drums method.

rim hits? or rim shots? wouldnt a rim hit just be some sort of clack? and players who hit rim shots the drum NEVER stays in tune for more than a song [unless any of you all know of a way i would LOVE to know how to make it stay that way]

e-cue · 15th September 2003, 04:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by alphajerk
rim hits? or rim shots? wouldnt a rim hit just be some sort of clack?

The rim hits. The Radiohead song was the only example I could think of off the top of my head. To answer you're 2nd (or 3rd?) question, the "clack" will have a note value. It still kinda trips my brain out. It's kinda similar to hitting the 'rim' and even the bottom of a tympani (which sounds kinda like a steel drum).

Jay Kahrs · 15th September 2003, 07:34 AM

I learned how to tune drums from a few good techs. I'll agree, I like the top head a little tighter then the bottom or reso head. Head choice makes a huge diff. in the tone of the tubs. For the last year or so I've been using Aquarian Satin Texture Coated heads on toms. It's what an Ambassador wants to be when it grows up. No shit. If your an Ambassdor user you owe it to yourself to try a set of these. I normally HATE Aquarian heads but it's like the one good like they make. Sort of like Peavey.

FWIW, I still haven't had luck tuning toms to specific notes. I just try to make 'em sound good. I do check the tuning of the toms against each other and against the snare and all that. If anything is wonky I don't put the drum key away.

toledo3 · 15th September 2003, 08:13 AM

That's interesting about having the bottom looser. B/c when you hit the top, the note sharps slightly. So, really, you are going from an out of tune note (attack) to a slightly out of tune note (decay) when you set the drums up that way. Hey, whatever works for ya works for ya.

e-cue · 15th September 2003, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jay Kahrs
For the last year or so I've been using Aquarian Satin Texture Coated heads on toms.

Here Here!

Also, I might get my ass kicked for this, but I really like Pearl drum heads too, but for certain things. ONLY ON THE TOP HEADS for some reason. Great if you want raw power and not much in the way of musicality. If you have ST or SP (yeah on the bottom), good luck getting any type of really good tone unless you DON'T want tone (hey, could be a good thing, right?). I really fell for the Pearl CT heads a LONG time ago listening to Drum Corps. [btw, if you've never been to a drum corp comp, at least n the states, try to check it out] The pearl heads are underated, but the reason why is they CAN sound a bit too 80's rockish if tuned too tight.

Lately, I've been VERY impressed with the sound I've been getting from a certain drummer's kit: Buefiss? (sp?) handmade drum in San Diego. It's like modern Ringo Star style.

Quote:

Originally posted by toledo3
That's interesting about having the bottom looser. B/c when you hit the top, the note sharps slightly. So, really, you are going from an out of tune note (attack) to a slightly out of tune note (decay) when you set the drums up that way. Hey, whatever works for ya works for ya.

Like I mentioned earlier, I think of toms kinda like tympani. I actually adVISE drummers to NOT hit the toms directly in the center, depending on the song. When you hit the drum directly in the middle of the drums on a twill, you get a: Beka-Beka-Beka-Beka. When you hit them halfway between the middle and th edge you get: Buaka-Buaka-Buaka-Buaka, BUT more sustain. See where I'm going with this? I hate you say it [b]again[/B[ but it depends on the player a LOT.

RichT · 15th September 2003, 08:44 AM

Saw an old Chad Smith 'instructional' video the other day, he talks about tuning the toms on his kit to the tune 'The Races'.

So you can play 'bum bum bom bom bom bom bum bom bam' (er..drumming is difficult in forum land)

Tried it on a kit just yesterday and it sounded good whilst tracking. Hopefully won't cause any problems on the mix side either.

Hoady hum, just my 2p

toledo3 · 15th September 2003, 08:49 AM

Hmm, yeah I see what you are saying about dif setups for dif players. Homing them in on the appropriate place to hit the drum for the moment is a big part of getting the tones right, especially on snare. The other thing is getting them not to choke the kick drum by leaving the beater planted on it.

Man, just about ALL of the heads have their thing. Coated, pinstripes, dots, hydraulics, whatever. I once had a cache of old ludwig weather master ambassador-esque heads that were killer, but I don't think they make those anymore. I even liked those black heads with the white dot on a particular snare, though they look like shit in no time at all.

15th September 2003, 01:14 PM

i am finding theis thread VERY interesting.

BTW, just in case you didnt know already, a strobe tuner with a mic plugged into it can register the pitch of almost ANYTHING (like a coffe mug or fire extinguisher hit with a drum stick etc)

Beezoboy · 15th September 2003, 01:58 PM

For a really nice head, try Aquarian Studio X's. They are amazing. They are perfect for rock.

Personally I just tune my toms so that sound good. Screw the key of the song, its just a drum.

Beez

Fidelis · 15th September 2003, 02:53 PM

"I personally prefer a drum that is tuned for the best tone than one that is in tune but does not speak as well...

Yes, I agree 100% here. Just make the drums sound good. But tuning to the key of a song can be useful sometimes...

BTW, I always loved my Yamaha's drums (I have two of them). But last year I bougth a Canopus drums (Japanese hand made drums) and it's just amazing. Unbelivable sound. I'm selling one of my Yamaha's...

vudoo · 15th September 2003, 03:11 PM

Being a drummer, i have spent a lot of times tuning my different drumkits.
I personally found that each drum has a sweet spot where it sounds best. Of course, this will change depending on the type of heads you're using. But this does not mean that if you tune it outside of this spot that it won't work. Also note that the notes you see on the DW shell is more of a reference...i have 3 DW sets and none of the kits are tune to the note indicated on the shell.
Here's my take on tuning to the " key " of the song. I personnally don't beleive in this at all for two reasons. First, how well the drum tracks sit in a song has more to do with choosing the right drumsize and drumheads. Secondly, if you want to be technical about it, i can garantee you that tuning a drum to any specific key under normal playing situation is impossible...you can come close but, in key...no way. Try this, tune your tom to a certain pitch..then hit it a dozen times...check the pitch of the drum afterwards. I can bet you that it's not on pitch anymore...and we're talking about just hitting the drum a few times...imagine under normal playing situation !!!
Anyways, the main thing is whatever works for you but the most important factor has ALWAYS been the dude behind the instrument...his groove and his touch !!!

Your Add Here! · 15th September 2003, 03:28 PM

So what are some common tunings on a kit with two r toms and a f tom? Triad in the key of the song? Which drum is the tonic? etc.

Ted Nightshade · 15th September 2003, 04:35 PM

The bugle call thing is a good idea for relative tuning of drums. If you think about it, the bugle plays the harmonic series, so the drums will be reinforcing each other harmonically.

I'm always careful to check the tuning against a tuned instrument, but not for any specific pitch- just cause sometimes it can sound really happening, and sometimes at cross purposes, so when you add the tuned instruments the drum sound goes all flabby.

A good drum tuning/sound will work with all 12 chromatic pitches, key shifts and modulations should not be an issue. In fact, well done, it should sound in tune with all 12 keys!

Like the way a triangle works- it puts out all kinds of crazy harmonics, but when you add the sound of the orchestra, the consonant overtones are enhanced, and the dissonant ones buried, so the triangle always sounds perfectly in tune with the accompaniment! Cool!

"Originally posted by BattleAngel
The coolest kit I've played recently is a Tama Starclassic Exotic made from Koa and Bubinga with a goatskin head.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

??!!! Wow...

Where'd you play this? The backwooods of Africa?

I'd love to try that one out!"

Real skin heads are a rare pleasure- I use nothing else, myself. Goat is nice on a snare drum!

the very finest calfskin heads available at www.lefima-usa.com

I often think that radical compression of drums is an attempt to make plastic heads sound like calfskin. Which gives you an idea how real skins sound.

I mean, imagine a conga with a plastic head... yikes...

They can take more tuning if the climate is unstable, but I find it well worth it myself. Often the tuning can be done with a slightly damp towel, or a lightbulb, and the relative tuning of the lugs stays the same, very nice. Sometimes you walk up to the kit and find it has tuned itself better than you could ever dream of tuning it!

chrisso · 15th September 2003, 04:55 PM

E-Cue if you hired Jim Keltner, Steve Gadd or someone of that satature would you have them walk in and use your rented kit, with your tuning and your heads? I know that some of you guy's are extremely particular about drum sounds but it seems to me that the drummer should be allowed to input some of their own personality.
The top studio drummers have a sound of their own. Of course they are very flexible, which is why they are at the top. It doesn't sound like there's too much room for compromise in some of you guy's routines though.
I go with tuning a drum to it's optimum pitch, rather than a note. I know a lot of people like tuning the drums to the song though. I always wondered what would happen if there was a key change, or some chords somehow out of the modal harmony of the basic key.
I heard once that Don Henley had to stop a take halfway through to retune for the key change.
Jules, couldn't you get a Noble & Cooley from Drumhire?
Have you tried Harris Hire?

toledo3 · 15th September 2003, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by vudoo
Being a drummer, i have spent a lot of times tuning my different drumkits.
I personally found that each drum has a sweet spot where it sounds best. Of course, this will change depending on the type of heads you're using. But this does not mean that you tune it outside of this spot that it won't work. Also note that the notes you see on the DW shell is more of a reference...i have 3 DW sets and none of the kits are tune to the note indicated on the shell.
Here's my take on tuning to the " key " of the song. I personnally don't beleive in this at all for two reasons. First, how well the drum tracks sit in a song has more to do with choosing the right drumsize and drumheads. Secondly, if you want to be technical about it, i can garantee you that tuning a drum to any specific key under normal playing situation is impossible...you can come close but, in key...no way. Try this, tune your tom to a certain pitch..then hit it a dozen times...check the pitch of the drum afterwards. I can bet you that it's not on pitch anymore...and we're talking about just hitting the drum a few times...imagine under normal playing situation !!!
Anyways, the main thing is whatever works for you but the most important factor has ALWAYS been the dude behind the instrument...his groove and his touch !!!

I totally disagree. With a properly stretched head, and good lugs, the toms will keep the pitch for much longer.

I got into tuning to notes when I was recording a song with a riding floor tom in the key of G, and the tom was tuned to a G#. I was thinking, what the hell is wrong with the tone? Well, it was a half a step away from actually sounding good. Normally one would go towards eq-ing/compressing etc to make that "fit" but all it took was actually tuning the damn thing!

As far as what to tune it to, you just have to have an ear for the "lick" the drums should play. For example, the other day I was recording a song in E, and the three toms were tuned E, C, G, from high to low. Basically, think in triads, and you will probably be cool, but it can be any inversion of the triad and sound good. It can be a major, minor, or dominant seventh, among other things, but that is what I usually end up with.

Also, if you are one of those guys that does not tune to specific notes, AT LEAST hit each combination of drums together to make sure that none of the decays are foul sounding together.

toledo3 · 15th September 2003, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by chrisso
E-Cue if you hired Jim Keltner, Steve Gadd or someone of that satature would you have them walk in and use your rented kit, with your tuning and your heads? I know that some of you guy's are extremely particular about drum sounds but it seems to me that the drummer should be allowed to input some of their own personality.
The top studio drummers have a sound of their own. Of course they are very flexible, which is why they are at the top. It doesn't sound like there's too much room for compromise in some of you guy's routines though.
I go with tuning a drum to it's optimum pitch, rather than a note. I know a lot of people like tuning the drums to the song though. I always wondered what would happen if there was a key change, or some chords somehow out of the modal harmony of the basic key.
I heard once that Don Henley had to stop a take halfway through to retune for the key change.
Jules, couldn't you get a Noble & Cooley from Drumhire?
Have you tried Harris Hire?

The top studio drummers are more concerned about the drums fitting the song than preserving their unique "tone". I have seen guys play on baby kits and cheap ass snares, if it fits the song.

toledo3 · 15th September 2003, 05:03 PM

Even if there is a key change one can find notes that will fit in both keys, most times.

heinz · 15th September 2003, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by alphajerk
rim hits? or rim shots? wouldnt a rim hit just be some sort of clack? and players who hit rim shots the drum NEVER stays in t

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15th September 2003, 01:23 AM	#1
Jules Guest Posts: n/a	e-cue "DW Drum kits tuned to the key of the song we are working on" e-cue "DW Drum kits tuned to the key of the song we are working on" How do you go about seting that up, where do ya start? I often run into agrivation with toms 'beating' (in a bad way) if they are tuned closely to notes in a song... so I am wary with this, I had a great experience with a knoble & kooley kit but cant rent one, I have been offered a DW "collectors" series and the tuneing coment has me interested...

15th September 2003, 08:44 AM	#18
RichT Lives for gear Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Portsmouth, UK Posts: 1,454	Saw an old Chad Smith 'instructional' video the other day, he talks about tuning the toms on his kit to the tune 'The Races'. So you can play 'bum bum bom bom bom bom bum bom bam' (er..drumming is difficult in forum land) Tried it on a kit just yesterday and it sounded good whilst tracking. Hopefully won't cause any problems on the mix side either. Hoady hum, just my 2p __________________ www.oldblacksmiths.com www.myspace.com/theoldblacksmiths

15th September 2003, 02:53 PM	#22
Fidelis Gear nut Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Sao Paulo - Brazil Posts: 141	Re: Re: e-cue "DW Drum kits tuned to the key of the song we are working on" "I personally prefer a drum that is tuned for the best tone than one that is in tune but does not speak as well... Yes, I agree 100% here. Just make the drums sound good. But tuning to the key of a song can be useful sometimes... BTW, I always loved my Yamaha's drums (I have two of them). But last year I bougth a Canopus drums (Japanese hand made drums) and it's just amazing. Unbelivable sound. I'm selling one of my Yamaha's...

15th September 2003, 02:45 AM	#5
toledo3 Lives for gear Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Funky Town FL Posts: 1,189	Mmm, tuning to a specific note isn't a waste of time, especially if it is a song where the toms play a heavy role in establishing the beat. If there is a lot of floor tom riding, or a big tom part ala Green Day "Longview" or "Wipeout", the toms are basically playing "licks" and require a certain note sequence. In some songs there is a much greater leeway. Each drum does have it's resonant frequency, and you can't get around that. But that STILL allows for variation. For example, if the resonant frequency of a tom was around a C note, one could tune it to C, A, Ab, G, F, E, Eb, etc. As far as "beating" goes, you can tune the top maybe an 1/8 or 1/4 step flat so that when you hit the drum and the note goes sharp, it actually comes "up" into tune, and "choruses" a little on the decay. It's worth experimenting with the heads on various kits as well. Different thicknesses require different tension to produce the same pitch. Jules, do you know the basic method of tuning drums? I find that sometimes the drummers can be the worst judge of tuning the kit, so it necessitates intervention. I think ecue's suggestion of renting from a drum service shop is good though.

15th September 2003, 02:55 AM	#7
toledo3 Lives for gear Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Funky Town FL Posts: 1,189	Personally, I am really liking the new Gretsch top of the like kit with floating mounts and all of that. I like it better than my buddy's DW, but that is just my opinion. The Gretsch, DW, and Yamaha Custom's tend to be my favored kits. The yamaha's with the really thin layer of laquer are great for jazz stuff.

15th September 2003, 03:00 AM	#8
BattleAngel Lives for gear Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Long Island, New York Posts: 930	The coolest kit I've played recently is a Tama Starclassic Exotic made from Koa and Bubinga with a goatskin head. Talk about a radical sound. And I personally think tuning to the song is a great idea- I've found that it makes things sound a lot more coherant somehow.

15th September 2003, 03:24 AM	#10
BattleAngel Lives for gear Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Long Island, New York Posts: 930	Actually, at Manny's in the city. I'd LOVE to own one of these just for the kick. Check it out: http://www.tama.com/museum/frameset-drumsets.html The kick is just really deep and rich.

15th September 2003, 03:27 AM	#11
BattleAngel Lives for gear Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Long Island, New York Posts: 930	Other cool kits I've come across are the Whitney Penguin line and Canopus Drums. http://www.whitneydrums.com/ http://www.canopusdrums.com/ I go for really pure, hi-fi drum sounds and the richness of these kits are really something to behold.

15th September 2003, 08:13 AM	#16
toledo3 Lives for gear Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Funky Town FL Posts: 1,189	That's interesting about having the bottom looser. B/c when you hit the top, the note sharps slightly. So, really, you are going from an out of tune note (attack) to a slightly out of tune note (decay) when you set the drums up that way. Hey, whatever works for ya works for ya.

15th September 2003, 08:49 AM	#19
toledo3 Lives for gear Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Funky Town FL Posts: 1,189	Hmm, yeah I see what you are saying about dif setups for dif players. Homing them in on the appropriate place to hit the drum for the moment is a big part of getting the tones right, especially on snare. The other thing is getting them not to choke the kick drum by leaving the beater planted on it. Man, just about ALL of the heads have their thing. Coated, pinstripes, dots, hydraulics, whatever. I once had a cache of old ludwig weather master ambassador-esque heads that were killer, but I don't think they make those anymore. I even liked those black heads with the white dot on a particular snare, though they look like shit in no time at all.

15th September 2003, 01:14 PM	#20
Jules Guest Posts: n/a	i am finding theis thread VERY interesting. BTW, just in case you didnt know already, a strobe tuner with a mic plugged into it can register the pitch of almost ANYTHING (like a coffe mug or fire extinguisher hit with a drum stick etc)

15th September 2003, 01:58 PM	#21
Beezoboy Gear addict Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 490	For a really nice head, try Aquarian Studio X's. They are amazing. They are perfect for rock. Personally I just tune my toms so that sound good. Screw the key of the song, its just a drum. Beez

15th September 2003, 03:11 PM	#23
vudoo Gear addict Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 430	Being a drummer, i have spent a lot of times tuning my different drumkits. I personally found that each drum has a sweet spot where it sounds best. Of course, this will change depending on the type of heads you're using. But this does not mean that if you tune it outside of this spot that it won't work. Also note that the notes you see on the DW shell is more of a reference...i have 3 DW sets and none of the kits are tune to the note indicated on the shell. Here's my take on tuning to the " key " of the song. I personnally don't beleive in this at all for two reasons. First, how well the drum tracks sit in a song has more to do with choosing the right drumsize and drumheads. Secondly, if you want to be technical about it, i can garantee you that tuning a drum to any specific key under normal playing situation is impossible...you can come close but, in key...no way. Try this, tune your tom to a certain pitch..then hit it a dozen times...check the pitch of the drum afterwards. I can bet you that it's not on pitch anymore...and we're talking about just hitting the drum a few times...imagine under normal playing situation !!! Anyways, the main thing is whatever works for you but the most important factor has ALWAYS been the dude behind the instrument...his groove and his touch !!!

15th September 2003, 03:28 PM	#24
Your Add Here! Gear maniac Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 171	So what are some common tunings on a kit with two r toms and a f tom? Triad in the key of the song? Which drum is the tonic? etc.

15th September 2003, 04:35 PM	#25
Ted Nightshade Lives for gear Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: state of jefferson Posts: 1,328	The bugle call thing is a good idea for relative tuning of drums. If you think about it, the bugle plays the harmonic series, so the drums will be reinforcing each other harmonically. I'm always careful to check the tuning against a tuned instrument, but not for any specific pitch- just cause sometimes it can sound really happening, and sometimes at cross purposes, so when you add the tuned instruments the drum sound goes all flabby. A good drum tuning/sound will work with all 12 chromatic pitches, key shifts and modulations should not be an issue. In fact, well done, it should sound in tune with all 12 keys! Like the way a triangle works- it puts out all kinds of crazy harmonics, but when you add the sound of the orchestra, the consonant overtones are enhanced, and the dissonant ones buried, so the triangle always sounds perfectly in tune with the accompaniment! Cool! "Originally posted by BattleAngel The coolest kit I've played recently is a Tama Starclassic Exotic made from Koa and Bubinga with a goatskin head. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ??!!! Wow... Where'd you play this? The backwooods of Africa? I'd love to try that one out!" Real skin heads are a rare pleasure- I use nothing else, myself. Goat is nice on a snare drum! the very finest calfskin heads available at www.lefima-usa.com I often think that radical compression of drums is an attempt to make plastic heads sound like calfskin. Which gives you an idea how real skins sound. I mean, imagine a conga with a plastic head... yikes... They can take more tuning if the climate is unstable, but I find it well worth it myself. Often the tuning can be done with a slightly damp towel, or a lightbulb, and the relative tuning of the lugs stays the same, very nice. Sometimes you walk up to the kit and find it has tuned itself better than you could ever dream of tuning it!

15th September 2003, 04:55 PM	#26
chrisso Lives for gear Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Oz Posts: 2,665	E-Cue if you hired Jim Keltner, Steve Gadd or someone of that satature would you have them walk in and use your rented kit, with your tuning and your heads? I know that some of you guy's are extremely particular about drum sounds but it seems to me that the drummer should be allowed to input some of their own personality. The top studio drummers have a sound of their own. Of course they are very flexible, which is why they are at the top. It doesn't sound like there's too much room for compromise in some of you guy's routines though. I go with tuning a drum to it's optimum pitch, rather than a note. I know a lot of people like tuning the drums to the song though. I always wondered what would happen if there was a key change, or some chords somehow out of the modal harmony of the basic key. I heard once that Don Henley had to stop a take halfway through to retune for the key change. Jules, couldn't you get a Noble & Cooley from Drumhire? Have you tried Harris Hire?

15th September 2003, 05:03 PM	#29
toledo3 Lives for gear Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Funky Town FL Posts: 1,189	Even if there is a key change one can find notes that will fit in both keys, most times.