Reamping with DI

tee boy · 3rd May 2006

Iv heard it said many times, but is this really a viable option (ie, using a DI box kind of backwards)?

Im recording more and more direct these days, but it would be nice to have the option of reamping some tracks when need be. Just not sure if I need to invest in a dedicated box, as the U5 should take a line level signal (although I shall have to check to be sure!).

Cheers,

TB

Kiwiburger · 3rd May 2006

You can't use an active DI box in reverse, ever. The U5 will be ideal for tracking, but when it comes to feeding your amps with an instrument level hi-z source, it won't be of any use.

I assume you have have high quality D/A converter with balanced low-z output?

What you need is a reamp box, such as www.reamp.com

When people talk about using a DI box for reamping, they mean a passive transformer box. But passive transformer boxes are designed to match a hiz- instrument level down to a low-z mic level. It drops the voltage when used as intended.

Used backwards, a passive DI will at least allow you to plug your balanced D/A into the XLR. But you are feeding a strong Line Level signal into the XLR that normal outputs a weak Mic Level signal. The transformer, used in reverse, actually boosts the signal, so you an extremely strong signal from the TS jack, which you are trying to connect to your guitar amp Instrument Level input.

So - the DI box in reverse gives you an extremely hot signal that is just too much for an amp. A reamp box is purpose designed for reamping, and it solves the impedance and level issues by the correct choice of transformer and resistors and pot/s.

If attempting to use a DI box in reverse, at least insert some form of attenuator, such as a guitar volume pedal.

I'm a little wary of the do-it-all boxes. A DI is a DI, a reamp is a reamp. I don't like lots of switches - every switch is a potential bad connection or failure risk.

tee boy · 3rd May 2006

Ah, I see. So it looks like I shall require a dedicated device, something like Xamp or Reamp as you mentioned. Ohwell, I guess it doesnt pay to cut corners with such things (even if it were possible)!

Btw, the convertors Im using at home are very 'prosumer' and offer the typical +4/-10 levels at the output. They are adequate for now, but a better pair of A/D and D/A are on my list.

Unfortunately, the list seems to be growing at an alarming rate!

TB

allencollins · 3rd May 2006

The cool thing about the xamp is it is so well grounded.
you could even use a $5 low to high transformer which works
but is often noisy.

I own the redeye the x-amp and a real 'reamp'.
the radial is by far the cleanest and offers the lowest noise floor
and is so well grounded.

I have done lots of tests. The redeye is cool cuz it's 2 in 1 (di and remap)
but was very noisy while reamping my marshall. The x-amp
is so quiet it kicks ass. The reamp is noisy as hell. I do
have a early 90's model so maybe the new ones are better

http://www.zzounds.com/item--AUTCP8201
this will work but it is not the cleanest solution
but I used it for years back in the 80's and it did work

Kiwiburger · 3rd May 2006

Thanks for that - i've been waiting to hear comparisons from somebody who has both.

The Reamp is passive in an aluminium case. The aluminium might stop some RF, but electromagnetic noise will go straight through.

The Xamp is housed in steel, which might explain the low noise. I was actually expecting the active electronics to contribute some noise, so i'm interested to hear you say it's the quietest.

feyshay · 3rd May 2006

Part 6 – Other cool uses for your JDI
Use the Radial JDI to re-amplify your signal!
Today, a popular studio effect is to record a signal such as guitar, voice or keyboard on a track and then run the pre-recorded track back through a guitar amplifier or effect pedal. This effect is known as reamping or re-amplifying and was started by Les Paul in the 1950’s and was widely used on recordings by the Beatles in the 60’s, and by Steely Dan in the 1970’s.
The Radial JDI can be used ‘backwards’ to convert a low-impedance mic level signal back to a high-impedance guitar signal. Simply connect the output from the recorder to a mixer and the mixer’s output to the JDI’s XLR output using a female-to-female XLR turn-around adaptor. Keep your level down to ensure the signal will not overload the JDI’s transformer. Connect the ‘input’ of the JDI to the input of the guitar amplifier and you are set to go!
-------------------------
I ended up buying the Radial JDI after the X-Amp (which I think is fantastic), so I have not yet tried reamping with the JDI in comparison to the XAmp. If I get a chance to compare, I'll post.

Kiwiburger · 3rd May 2006

The problem with using a passive box like the JDI is the that you need attenuation. They are suggesting you use a mixer. I really don't want to insert a noisy, unnecessary mixer between my good D/A and my high gain guitar amps. That's why a box that has a level control is more direct and should be way less noisy.

If your D/A has an attenuator, you should be fine though. A Benchmark DAC-1, or Lavry Black should do the trick.

Kiwiburger · 3rd May 2006

The Beatles widely used reamping???? This is news to me!

James HE · 3rd May 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiwiburger

The problem with using a passive box like the JDI is the that you need attenuation. They are suggesting you use a mixer. I really don't want to insert a noisy, unnecessary mixer between my good D/A and my high gain guitar amps. That's why a box that has a level control is more direct and should be way less noisy.

If your D/A has an attenuator, you should be fine though. A Benchmark DAC-1, or Lavry Black should do the trick.

Why not a software level control? turning down the track before you buss it out to your DA.

allencollins · 3rd May 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiwiburger

The Beatles widely used reamping???? This is news to me!

word has it reamping has been done since the 40's!

I guess Les Paul did it back in the day
not surprised. He invented half the toys we use today

Youn · 3rd May 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiwiburger

The problem with using a passive box like the JDI is the that you need attenuation. They are suggesting you use a mixer. I really don't want to insert a noisy, unnecessary mixer between my good D/A and my high gain guitar amps. That's why a box that has a level control is more direct and should be way less noisy.

If your D/A has an attenuator, you should be fine though. A Benchmark DAC-1, or Lavry Black should do the trick.

The JDI has a -15dB pad which I've found needs to be engaged when re-amping, or else the signal is too hot, making things sound noisier. It worked perfectly though, we couldn't tell between original and re-amped setups during our tests. Of course, different circumstances might result in different conclusions.

littlelabs · 3rd May 2006

If your redeye is adding any noise, something is wrong, it's a passive device and won't add noise that goes for the reamp as well (and it has nothing to do with a steel vs. aluminium case). I am very curious about your set up, maybe your particular Marshall likes a low impedance signal vs. a high impedance. Anyway ....... I'm a manufacturer so I'll shut up now..

20to20 · 3rd May 2006

I use this for reamping:

http://www.geartree.com/Shop/Control...id/0/SFV/29865

Since it is a dual DI, you can use one side backwards,
and the other side for return (if needed: i.e. stompboxes)...

Switchable attenuation built-in to reduce levels as needed...

Switchable ground lift, if needed...

Very solid build, very affordable...

allencollins · 3rd May 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by 20to20

I use this for reamping:

http://www.geartree.com/Shop/Control...id/0/SFV/29865

Since it is a dual DI, you can use one side backwards,
and the other side for return (if needed: i.e. stompboxes)...

Switchable attenuation built-in to reduce levels as needed...

Switchable ground lift, if needed...

Very solid build, very affordable...

damn $48.00 I'm gonna check one out

thx

allencollins · 3rd May 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by littlelabs

If your redeye is adding any noise, something is wrong, it's a passive device and won't add noise that goes for the reamp as well (and it has nothing to do with a steel vs. aluminium case). I am very curious about your set up, maybe your particular Marshall likes a low impedance signal vs. a high impedance. Anyway ....... I'm a manufacturer so I'll shut up now..

I'm using a Groove Tubes SE II in the chain. When I use my palmer and my ADA speaker emulators your box works great. I think it has something to do with the GT SE being AC powered??? Not sure though. Your redeye is a nice piece. It just is noisy in this one situation

You make great products don't get me wrong!

3rd May 2006	#1
tee boy Gear nut Joined: Nov 2003 Location: Staffs, UK Posts: 135 Thread Starter	Reamping with DI Iv heard it said many times, but is this really a viable option (ie, using a DI box kind of backwards)? Im recording more and more direct these days, but it would be nice to have the option of reamping some tracks when need be. Just not sure if I need to invest in a dedicated box, as the U5 should take a line level signal (although I shall have to check to be sure!). Cheers, TB

3rd May 2006	#12
littlelabs Little Labs Joined: Jul 2002 Location: Hollywood Posts: 234	If your redeye is adding any noise, something is wrong, it's a passive device and won't add noise that goes for the reamp as well (and it has nothing to do with a steel vs. aluminium case). I am very curious about your set up, maybe your particular Marshall likes a low impedance signal vs. a high impedance. Anyway ....... I'm a manufacturer so I'll shut up now.. __________________ Little Labs Professional Audio Design, Manufacturing and Consulting http://www.littlelabs.com/ vox/fax :323.851.6860

3rd May 2006	#13
20to20 Gear nut Joined: Oct 2002 Location: Fort Wayne, IN Posts: 144	I use this for reamping: http://www.geartree.com/Shop/Control...id/0/SFV/29865 Since it is a dual DI, you can use one side backwards, and the other side for return (if needed: i.e. stompboxes)... Switchable attenuation built-in to reduce levels as needed... Switchable ground lift, if needed... Very solid build, very affordable... __________________ Bob Phillips 20to20soundesign

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3rd May 2006	#2
Kiwiburger Lives for gear Joined: Feb 2006 Posts: 4,075	You can't use an active DI box in reverse, ever. The U5 will be ideal for tracking, but when it comes to feeding your amps with an instrument level hi-z source, it won't be of any use. I assume you have have high quality D/A converter with balanced low-z output? What you need is a reamp box, such as www.reamp.com When people talk about using a DI box for reamping, they mean a passive transformer box. But passive transformer boxes are designed to match a hiz- instrument level down to a low-z mic level. It drops the voltage when used as intended. Used backwards, a passive DI will at least allow you to plug your balanced D/A into the XLR. But you are feeding a strong Line Level signal into the XLR that normal outputs a weak Mic Level signal. The transformer, used in reverse, actually boosts the signal, so you an extremely strong signal from the TS jack, which you are trying to connect to your guitar amp Instrument Level input. So - the DI box in reverse gives you an extremely hot signal that is just too much for an amp. A reamp box is purpose designed for reamping, and it solves the impedance and level issues by the correct choice of transformer and resistors and pot/s. If attempting to use a DI box in reverse, at least insert some form of attenuator, such as a guitar volume pedal. I'm a little wary of the do-it-all boxes. A DI is a DI, a reamp is a reamp. I don't like lots of switches - every switch is a potential bad connection or failure risk.

3rd May 2006	#4
allencollins 3 + infractions, forum membership suspended. Joined: Oct 2004 Location: Rosedale Cemetery Singing Beach, MA Posts: 4,873	The cool thing about the xamp is it is so well grounded. you could even use a $5 low to high transformer which works but is often noisy. I own the redeye the x-amp and a real 'reamp'. the radial is by far the cleanest and offers the lowest noise floor and is so well grounded. I have done lots of tests. The redeye is cool cuz it's 2 in 1 (di and remap) but was very noisy while reamping my marshall. The x-amp is so quiet it kicks ass. The reamp is noisy as hell. I do have a early 90's model so maybe the new ones are better http://www.zzounds.com/item--AUTCP8201 this will work but it is not the cleanest solution but I used it for years back in the 80's and it did work

3rd May 2006	#6
feyshay Lives for gear Joined: Aug 2005 Posts: 1,358	Part 6 – Other cool uses for your JDI Use the Radial JDI to re-amplify your signal! Today, a popular studio effect is to record a signal such as guitar, voice or keyboard on a track and then run the pre-recorded track back through a guitar amplifier or effect pedal. This effect is known as reamping or re-amplifying and was started by Les Paul in the 1950’s and was widely used on recordings by the Beatles in the 60’s, and by Steely Dan in the 1970’s. The Radial JDI can be used ‘backwards’ to convert a low-impedance mic level signal back to a high-impedance guitar signal. Simply connect the output from the recorder to a mixer and the mixer’s output to the JDI’s XLR output using a female-to-female XLR turn-around adaptor. Keep your level down to ensure the signal will not overload the JDI’s transformer. Connect the ‘input’ of the JDI to the input of the guitar amplifier and you are set to go! ------------------------- I ended up buying the Radial JDI after the X-Amp (which I think is fantastic), so I have not yet tried reamping with the JDI in comparison to the XAmp. If I get a chance to compare, I'll post.