Learning to sing better harmonies?

[SDB_12]

Hi everyone,

My record is almost done, and all that's left is putting in some vocal harmonies then mixing. I'll be harmonizing with myself a lot, and will also have a female voice in there on some of the songs.

Anyways, when I'm trying to sing harmony with a song, sometimes I immediately hear the harmony, and sing it with no issue, while others I can't seem to find it or be able to stay on the correct harmony throughout the song without wanting to slip back into the melody.

What are some tricks you all have found to help learn harmonies? Usually, if I take a break from the song, and break it down and work it out in my head or with a piano/guitar...I can eventually find it. But it just takes awhile. Is it best to sing above/below the lead melody, or maybe both and blend? Maybe I should just use my ears? This is much easier when it's someone else's record I'm producing...but when it's my own...I get too involved sometimes..and over think things.

I'm a "by ear" kinda guy. I learned to play guitar by ear, drums by ear, piano, bass, etc...but vocal harmony is my weak point and doesn't always come natural to me. I have to work at it more, and I get frustrated sometimes. Looking for some advice to improve this.

[Slikjmuzik]

My initial reply would be to make sure you understand the theory behind the arrangements so that you sing backups that make sense overtop of the chords. This is what I do a lot of people. People send me their 2-tracks and I make up harmonies for them. You're right, not always right in yoiur face, but they can be found if you understand the chord structure you've created.

[nocoJack]

Work out the notes with a guitar or piano. Then do some reps singing those notes. You can jump right in and record with the melody turned down very low (or turned off).

I've had similar problems... it just takes practice with the different notes that you're not used to.

[Electric Sugar]

This is something I've been struggling with for years. Some people are naturally better at it than others. My brother, for instance, can sing a harmony part with a song he doesn't even know right off the bat. Me, on the other hand, I can only do it if I know song very well, and if it's a very simple harmony part, usually just 5ths or single notes.

I've got a little better at it recently, I think the only way round it if it doesn't come naturally is to get really familiar with the song and practice it loads.

One trick I tried which helped speed the process up a bit was to double up the lead vocal line with a really simple VST synth (via MIDI). USE that MIDI part to work out some harmony parts, and put them on a separate channel. Then learn to sing the new MIDI part (the harmony) by singing along with it whilst the original synth (which follows the vocals) is muted. You could even mute the original vocal part as well, if that makes it easier.

You won't sound like Queen, but it might get you close to where you want to be a bit faster.

As with a lot of things, if it doesn't come naturally it can take a lot of time and patience.

[steveschizoid]

Don't stick to one interval, and try to figure out ways to create different intervals within a given idea - i.e. don't use parallel harmony all the time. Or even most of the time. You can start with insinct, or you can figure out what's going on harmonically with the rest of the instruments and experiment; I don't think there's a right, wrong or a best way.

Listen to the Beatles. They were the first rock band that excelled at this, and few that I've heard are as good. Check Dada out for a more modern band with truly wonderful melody/harmony gems.

if you like faster/harder music, perhaps Bad Religion would be a place to start. They can be tough because of the sheer density of the background vocal layering.

As far as pulling them off...you probably just need to practice. Learn the harmonies to some favorite songs, analyze etc...I would guess that, as with most endeavors, practice makes better. I've always loved harmony, so generally if I can hear it, I can sing it.

[chessparov]

A good long term solution would be to join your local chapter of the
Men's "Barbershop Harmony Society".

Been singing the melody-"lead" (2nd tenor) in mine for years, and just started
hanging out with the basses as my first serious step in learning a harmony part. FWIW really am a lyric baritone.

Hope this helps...

Chris

P.S. The "Society" has learning CD's for all 4 parts (lead/bass/bari/tenor) on well known "barbershop" songs.

[Slikjmuzik]

Originally Posted by Frank_Case

What makes for a good harmony? Singing in octaves? Thirds? Sixths? Fifths? Do you have certain intervals that you target? Or is it just an off the cuff feel and sound thing without much thought?

Well, it really depends on the genre. Really, anything goes as long as you fit the genre, style and song. In punk music, or say, just to keep it simple, think Blink 182 type stuff, you'd only be looking at 1 harmony a 3rd above the lead vocal and that's about it. If Nickelback were drawing up harmonies, and the singer was singing the 5th of the chord being played by the guitars, then it's possible you'd have a harmony a 4th above the lead vocal and a minor 3rd below. You'd have a choice with how to voice it as the harmony that I stated would be a perfect 4th above could also be sung down an octave as it would be the root of the chord thus leaving the lead vocal on top. There are really no rules other than making sure that the harmonies fit the chord structure. It is also good to know what color notes would sound right in certain places. I like hearing the 9th, or the 2nd, sung on harmonies in modern pop music. Mutt Lange is king for this. Listen to Shania Twain's 'Forever and For Always' and 'Still the One'. Those are both stellar examples of solid modern backup vocal work. If you want to hear other good backup vocal work, listen to Boston, Toto and believe it or not, the boybands like Bakcstreet Boys and Nsync from the 90's. When those 2 were working with the Swedes, their harmonies were 2nd to none. You have to get past the cheesy bubble gum sound, but there is some stellar vocal production to learn from there for sure.

Best of luck.

[Fergies Watch]

vocal harmony is like an addiction. You are either blessed and able to do it straight away, or like me learn trough repetition and much practice. You will know you are serious about mastering vocal harmony when you cannot help yourself putting a harmony line to every song you hear, whether that be in the car listening to cds or the radio, washing up etc etc.

There's nothing more satisfying than singing a great harmony line !

for simple interweaving harmony try mastering Simon and garfunckel, where the lead line becomes harmony and vice versa ( very clever writing ), also makes use of under male harmony which imo is harder to master than above, 3rds fifths etc. Also Nickelback make good use of under male harmony.

good luck in your quest, there are more of us out there trying to master harmony vocal.



Another idea is to download karaoke backing tracks ) they have no lead vocal and its much easier to hear how the harmony should work. I think your right though, it is easier to work harmonies out on other peoples music than your own.

[Ernest Buckley]

Originally Posted by SDB_12

Hi everyone,

My record is almost done, and all that's left is putting in some vocal harmonies then mixing. I'll be harmonizing with myself a lot, and will also have a female voice in there on some of the songs.

Anyways, when I'm trying to sing harmony with a song, sometimes I immediately hear the harmony, and sing it with no issue, while others I can't seem to find it or be able to stay on the correct harmony throughout the song without wanting to slip back into the melody.

What are some tricks you all have found to help learn harmonies? Usually, if I take a break from the song, and break it down and work it out in my head or with a piano/guitar...I can eventually find it. But it just takes awhile. Is it best to sing above/below the lead melody, or maybe both and blend? Maybe I should just use my ears? This is much easier when it's someone else's record I'm producing...but when it's my own...I get too involved sometimes..and over think things.

I'm a "by ear" kinda guy. I learned to play guitar by ear, drums by ear, piano, bass, etc...but vocal harmony is my weak point and doesn't always come natural to me. I have to work at it more, and I get frustrated sometimes. Looking for some advice to improve this.

Singing & creating interesting and supportive bkg vocals is an art in and of itself. With that said, consider listening to any Mutt Lange productions, especially his Shania Twain stuff. His use of bkg vocals is not always obvious but its there to support the vocal or add interest. Seal is another artist to study.

Consider that lots of bkg vocals do not sing alongside the main vocal but sing in the spaces between. Just a hint.

[Deltones]

Study these guys:

[Wayne]

IMHO 'how' comes down to being able to hear the parts ..in you head and just as you would need for the lead.
I always thought the Airplane had some really interesting harmonies going. Maybe rather more like two or three lead versions at the same time perhaps, but I love the tug and pull'. Way past way your typical parallels'.
(I wish I could be in a band that could sing like that.

just an add-- When you're singing along' (off the clock whatever..) sing/think 'harm instead.

[Wayne]

Originally Posted by Deltones

Study these guys:

[YOUTUBE..]

Might as well pull up some old Marty Robins there.

[legato]

OK then, here's Marty for ya (including harmonies).

El Paso. The 1959 record is in D, but these two live versions are in C:
Marty Robbins Sings 'El Paso.' - YouTube
Marty Robins: El Paso - YouTube

Those were examples of the younger Marty (plenty of the older Marty, too, on YouTube), but here's an even earlier version, still with Jim Glaser (of the Glaser Brothers) who is also on the original record. The key is D. Jim is the guy on the right. Listen what he does:
Marty Robbins El Paso - YouTube



Henk

[Ward Pike]

About 1/4 of my work is doing harmony vocals on other people's records. Sometimes I work out all harmonies by ear, other times on a piano. That can really work.

Attached is the backing vocal "sketch" on a demo for an upcoming album I'm producing. Yes, I sang all 4 parts (peanut gallery comments later please, this was only a quickie)... the artist's guide vocal is also there. It's GOSPEL so avoid if you really hate the stuff.

Although this attachment is something I did by ear, I will chart it when I add other singers to the parts.

If you can't write music, record the parts using midi into your DAW and then convert that to sheet music. You can then scratch in the lyrics and other consideration in underneath.

[Slikjmuzik]

Originally Posted by Ward Pike

About 1/4 of my work is doing harmony vocals on other people's records. Sometimes I work out all harmonies by ear, other times on a piano. That can really work.

Attached is the backing vocal "sketch" on a demo for an upcoming album I'm producing. Yes, I sang all 4 parts (peanut gallery comments later please, this was only a quickie)... the artist's guide vocal is also there. It's GOSPEL so avoid if you really hate the stuff.

Although this attachment is something I did by ear, I will chart it when I add other singers to the parts.

If you can't write music, record the parts using midi into your DAW and then convert that to sheet music. You can then scratch in the lyrics and other consideration in underneath.

Love it!! It's got that Statler Brothers or 'Deep River Woman' by Lionel Ritchie kinda vibe. Excellent job!!

[aclarson]

I tend to reinforce the standout lines in songs, and I tend to leave harmony off when a line has a personal aspect. Like if you say "I feel pain yada yada" or something like that, then you're stating something about yourself, so that seems like it should be coming from one voice. There's exceptions to this, obviously, but that's how I tend to approach it.

Sometimes an octave is cool to beef up a part. I like lower harmonies when it's sort of a darker vibe or a chill verse kinda part. Higher harmonies I think tend to be a big chorus or climactic part.

I also sometimes really love adding backgrounds that aren't doing the same thing as the lead vocal, like doing a monotonous note or two notes over a part where the lead vocal is doing a more dynamic melody.

One good thing to try is shutting off or turning down some or all of other instruments so you can hear the part better.

[electricthing]

I use the piano (or keyboard) as the source for harmony.

You can make a easy midi version of the vocals and then play (or program) a second on a second midi(piano or...)sound and a third voice etc.

In that way a part that you think will work sometimes has to be changed a bit, mostly in order to avoid too much parallels or just to make it more exciting.
It's easier to hear what you want.
In this way you can get precise and exciting vocal harmonies, and while tracking you can mix in a bit of the miditrack in the headphone mix if you want.

It can really make you feel like you're arranging.

Have fun.

[robertshaw]

the best I have seen at many big studios
is get an intelligent harmonizer dup the line
and follow them

[mikethedrummer]

Like someone else touched on, just practice whenever youre in the car, or listening to something at home. Youll hear what matches and what doesnt. 3rds and 4ths are the way to go at first. Once you've got this mastered counterpoint becomes an option.

Originally Posted by robertshaw

the best I have seen at many big studios
is get an intelligent harmonizer dup the line
and follow them

I've done this before for bands, sang it for them over and over, pulled out a guitar or sat at a piano and recorded the harmony for them. Mute the main vocal, have them learn the "new" melody, and then sing record it. Unmute the main, perfect harmony. Its very hard to teach people new things when their standing in front of a mic.