How many of you still use a click to track?

[dkelley]

Originally Posted by jtaylor27

I use a click all the time since I play all instruments on my recordings myself. I often start with Electric or Acoustic guitar and need something to build the foundation. I tried doing it without but I just get lost and the rhythm moves around too much.

Plus it helps when editing things and moving things around.

same here for my own music.

and as a session player I can't recall the last time I was given tracks to play over that weren't done to a click. so it certainly is REALLY common still.

also many daws make clicked work much easier to edit.

it's funny how analog tape made click much less of a common thing because it was so hard to edit and clicks didn't help really with editing.

now with daws mostly working by default in measured/tempo controlled click track style, music has changed as a result.

I've gone through and created very elaborate click tracks to track my music to, with changing time signatures, tempos, and so on. For me I can play to that just fine. but it depends on what you're doing of course.

[Meow]

This girl lives and dies by the click!

All hale the click!!

[pasarireng]

I'm ok with either way.
IMHO Play to a click doesn't have to be rigid.
(Good) Musician have to be able to play with a good tempo, which sometimes mean play to a click. But he/she has to make it 'live' while in the same time keep the tempo.

And...even 'click' track doesn't have to be rigid too!

[jruberto]

Originally Posted by yotonic

There's just no getting around the fact that click is going to have some effect it's impossible for your mind to block it out. It's going to sharpen an edge every once in a while, and make you stop shuffling around which often times is exactly the colorful character a song needs. I just can't imagine Nirvana or Ray LaMontagne to a click.

It comes down to the musicians and their respective approaches. If a song is slower & super funky I might be playing bass notes almost a 16th behind the beat. With a click I feel like I have some real leeway to get down like that & it's not going to throw anyone else off or make anyone feel like i'm dragging.

The grid has taught us that "the beat" is one infinitely small point in time and there is one "correct" spot where that exists. Which is just not true.

[dgcobb]

I'm pretty new to recording, I use Logic 9, and I record my own singer / songwriter stuff. I always use a click, for a couple reasons. One is that I don't have a drummer, and I have considered the possibility of adding midi drums to my songs. I assume you would need to be accurate to a click track for this? Also, how would you edit without the audio synced to a click? For example, how could I copy and paste sections of the track if the tempo is not steady?

However, I do find it a royal PITA to have to go back and flex time edit every measure so that it lines up perfectly with the click. IT would sure be convenient to not use a click, I'm just kinda scared that it would mess up my editing process, and that I wouldn't be able to add midi instruments (like drums) later if I wanted to. Are these correct assumptions?

Sorry for the noobish question!

[joeq]

Originally Posted by jtaylor27

Click tracks have been around for awhile. I think Universal Audio or Urei made a click track module sometime in the early 80's?

I remember in the 70's, putting the Franz on desired bpm, sticking a mic in front of it, closing the door and recording 5 minutes worth of metronome on a track.

we did not have to wait until the invention of the 'click track module'

So if it seems the "popular" response is "I never use a click when tracking," why does everything sound that way.

Who is "in favor" of roboticized gridded plastic music, raise your hand? nobody

Who is "in favor" of Freedom, and Art, and Emotions? everybody

but play them some sloppy-ass band wandering all over the place and play them something conformed to a steady tempo and all the loose notes tightened up and guess which one sounds more "pro", more "commercial"?

When the choice is presented verbally as a rhetorical argument on a Bulletin Board, 'Freedom' wins every time.

When the choice is presented sonically, in private, in the absence of peer pressure, the results may differ.

it's a choice, sure. But even super-tight musicians making that choice will understand the choice, like so many other things, often is between artistic 'satisfaction' and making money.

a band I am in just finished our basic tracks sans click. Live live live. I am proud of the way they sound. Would not redo them if I could. But I do realize the way it comes across is less pop, less commercial. More raw, more real, etc. Jazzier, bluesier, yes. But 'radio-ready'? Not as much.

OK, because the stuff never had a shot at pop/commercial anyway, but it is an interesting phenomenon for sure.

I am not saying no one could cross over and sell a lot of records with no click in 2012 , but it definitely is more uphill.

[thenoodle]

Originally Posted by joeq

I remember in the 70's, putting the Franz on desired bpm, sticking a mic in front of it, closing the door and recording 5 minutes worth of metronome on a track.

Me too. I thought everyone did it that way. .

[The Harvest]

In my experience, the only people who argue against using a click are the drummers who can't play to one. It's a defence to their musican ineptitude. But I'm recording pop-rock bands mostly. I could see jazz not needing a click to track, but that's probably got a lot to do with the extensive technical training that comes along with being a jazz player..

Sent from my MB860 using Gearslutz.com

[Dean Roddey]

What I do these days is put down a 1 measure MIDI tick, then copy and paste it 100 times, then randomize it so that it sounds really out of tempo, and then play to that. That way, I get the benefit of a click track, while still sounding like I have no timing. It's the best of both worlds.

[Musiclab]

So long as the drummer is comfortable with it we use a click. It DOESN"T SUCK THE LIFE OUT OF MUSIC, bad drummers do. Sometimes you can use things like conga grooves and shakers etc, to make it more fun for the drummer. I often do this

[jroode]

Originally Posted by jtaylor27

I remember reading (http://www.tiptopwebsite.com/customm...com2.pdf-under the "Creative Process") that Dennis Wilson used a click track when recording Pacific Ocean Blue back in 1977. The Bee Gees also used one when recording the Saturday Night Fever soundtrack and beyond. Click tracks have been around for awhile. I think Universal Audio or Urei made a click track module sometime in the early 80's?

More like the mid 70's. Possibly even before that. But that's the first time I can remember using one. They were developed for film scoring use.

However, I'm sure there was something prior to that that film composers used. I just don't know what it was because that was before my time.

[jroode]

Originally Posted by Brent Hahn

Those were around a lot earlier than that. They were kinda weird, because unlike normal metronomes where the tempo settings are in beats per minute, with a Urei Click Generator you'd set the tempo in frames per beat. US film frames, that is. So a 12 frame click = 2 beats per second = 120 beats per minute. And the higher the setting, the slower the tempo.

That's because they were made for film composers who thought in terms of frames per second.

[jroode]

Originally Posted by jroode

That's because they were made for film composers who thought in terms of frames per second.

BTW... we started using them as young rock cats because we were doing jingles to help pay the bills... and like another poster mentioned, you have exactly 29.5 seconds in a 30 second spot. So you don't want to have a great take ruined by the fact that your track ended at 29.75.

As a result, we started using click in our album sessions because we were so used to using them in our jingle sessions. We actually got comfortable using them and it felt weird not to use click.

[evangelista]

NEVER.

Unless the music wants it.

Which is, I dunno, maybe about half the time.

[thenoodle]

Everyone I knew in the 60s used clicks too. Not on every song... but routinely. You can really hear it on the 1967 Jefferson Airplane track "Triad" just as the faders come up for the start of the song.

[theDAWstudio]

Originally Posted by Dean Roddey

What I do these days is put down a 1 measure MIDI tick, then copy and paste it 100 times, then randomize it so that it sounds really out of tempo, and then play to that. That way, I get the benefit of a click track, while still sounding like I have no timing. It's the best of both worlds.

That is awesome.

But really I can't believe that nobody has mentioned the two simple answers to the original question.

1. Good professional drummers are a click track so there is no need for a mechanical one (and that is why a lot of those older songs line up pretty closely with a click).

2. The click doesn't suck the life out of anything. Musicality is about ebbing and flowing to a pulse.

I have created incredibly expressive music to a stationary click track just by rushing or lagging on it. We as humans are drawn to the steady pulse. It is the fighting against that pulse that pulls on our emotions making performances musical. In traditional music, the expressive solos are usually done over a steady pulse with the musician slowing down and speeding up against it. Sorry for saying the same thing four different ways, but listen to some examples or talk to a professional clarinetist or violinist. They practice to a click and when they solo they have a steady pulse going in their head or by the conductor.

[doug hazelrigg]

Excessive reliance on a click is of the same general syndrome as quantization and autotune. Let the music breathe. Turn it off

[projektk]

Only use click when I have to. Its nice but a lot of artists sometimes can't even play to a click. I don't mind using it I just don't have to many clients who like to use a click.

Sent from my LG-P925 using Gearslutz.com

[garymusic]

Sometimes. However, not always. Some songs seem better done to a click but others it seems natural to speed up during the chorus. I think of early Dylan and the way he would go in and out of time and it worked just fine. Zep's Heartbreaker would just be crap if played to a click.

Gary

[SDB_12]

Great responses everyone! I'm definitely not saying that it "isn't cool" to play to click...

To be honest, I usually use a click 80% of the time for most clients, including my solo projects. I have no problem playing to a click at all. But, many others do I have noticed...it's frustrating, but it's the way it goes. I like a band to play live together for the initial takes when possible, but very few bands that walk in can all play to a click track together. For these, I either have the guitarist lay down his parts quickly to a click, then do a scratch vox...or I program a quick drum loop for everyone to play too, etc. I don't want anyone simply recording to the sound of a click alone though. I try to have either a guitar in there, a drum loop, or the full band going to it.

I think you all are right that most productions do use a click, sound quantized and perfect, and that is what most clients want...so we use a click. I think it's more cool to SAY "I never use a click" but many times we do. Certain styles seem to get by without the click more than others...and it also depends on the timing of the bands. I usually just do whatever needs to be done, or whatever the band feels comfortable with, etc.

[Enlightened Hand]

I use a metronome all of the time in some capacity unless the musicians say they don't want it at all and almost none of them say that.

I frankly don't agree with the assertion that some folks make that it sucks the life out of music.

The metronome does nothing but present a consistent pulse. How you play with one is a skill. If somebody has trouble hearing that consistent pulse because they can't wrap their mind around anticipating the beat (which is the foundation of playing to a metronome) that's an area for them to develop as a musician. They might never actually get around to developing the skill though.

Once you get good at anticipating the beat and playing with a metronome you can be as free a musician as you want and still know how to get back in time when needed. It's just another area of performance. To dismiss it as useless unless you want to be robotic I think is a cover up for not being willing or able to develop the ability to play with one.

[jordanvoth]

I made two very polished sounding pop albums without quantizing or click tracks as a youngin. I practiced very diligently to get to that levl. At this point I do EVERYTHING with a click, the difference is on my stuff the editing makes a small difference and if I hear it in my cans on a take it means I'm off, which means I redo it. Cubase 6 has a tempo detect feature that I haven't used yet but I hear is really useful.

[Jim Williams]

I didn't use a click until the 1980's, when mechanical midi marching new wave stuff became popular.

Back then drummers were better I'm afraid. They were used to keeping time, not following it. Once at a live Stevie Wonder show back in the 1980's when they began to use the first Linn Drum machine I shut it out of the monitors during soundcheck when Dennis Davis was playing. 3 minutes later I brought it back up and he was still dead on in time without it.

[joeq]

Originally Posted by Jim Williams

I didn't use a click until the 1980's, when mechanical midi marching new wave stuff became popular.

Back then drummers were better I'm afraid. They were used to keeping time, not following it. Once at a live Stevie Wonder show back in the 1980's when they began to use the first Linn Drum machine I shut it out of the monitors during soundcheck when Dennis Davis was playing. 3 minutes later I brought it back up and he was still dead on in time without it.

either that or he had completely lapped it once


or twice

[Ward Pike]

Always use a click. Always. For all the good bona fide professional reasons stated earlier.

If you encounter a band that can't follow a click because they lack discipline or an internal metronome, here's a trick that works like a charm:

On your DAW, load a drum loop similar to the style of the drum beat to be recorded (in sync with the click track), and place it all the way through from start to finish. The drummer will easily be able to follow it and will actually end up with an even MORE energetic track.

[Joe Cole]

I find that if I record guitars to a click, then add in drums later (from Superior Drummer) my music is simply not grooving right.

If I lay down the guitar after the rhythm section, (SD + live bass), then I am in the money.

[Enlightened Hand]

I normally have the drummer track to the click. Everyone else has the option of hearing as much of the click or as little as they want. But often times the guitarists don't rely so much on it if they don't have extended sections where they are without a drum beat. But it's there if they need to turn it up.

With overdubs it's kind of the same deal. The guitarists track to the drummer (who has already tracked to a click) unless they want to hear the click as well.

[ofajen]

For my solo stuff, I usually start with something that accompanies me, like a drum machine part to go with playing and singing. I track them all to tape in one pass.

For an ensemble, I've yet to use a click, though I've done jam sessions with me and another musician along with a drum machine, when neither of us is playing drums or other percussion.

Cheers,

Otto

[jruberto]

Originally Posted by Ward Pike

Always use a click. Always.

Really? Would you insist on a click track for

A Dixieland band full of 70 year old men?
Solo singer/songwriter?
Jazz trio?
Inept teenagers?
Goth folk band with accordion, banjo & washtub bass crowded around one mic & not wearing headphones?

And if so, why? I'm curious.

I ask the client if they want to try it if it seems appropriate to the material and/or the players, but even that's only about half the time.

Hell, I avoid headphones if it's at all possible.

[kats]

I use them when the band is not tight. Normally I like to record the beds live off the floor without the bands wearing headphones. I find the nuance of performance much more engaging this way. I also don't like denying the performers to use tempo as a dynamic tool - rubato/acellerando etc - ya know?

The way I look at it is that, as humans, we don't have much more to give music besides tempo and dynamics. By recording without headphones the players play of each other - headphones screw with this big time.