Ribbon Mics for Pedal Steel guitar (on a budget)

[zenben]

Hello,
Ever since having trouble finding the right sound with dynamic mics, I've typically recorded direct from a guitar processor to PC, but I'd like to incorporate the sound of my tube amp and cabinet in my recording, as I really enjoy what it adds live. My main instrument is pedal steel guitar. I have been doing a lot of research on microphones here lately, and I have fallen in love with the warm sound of ribbon microphones. My understanding is that something like a cascade fathead would be perfect for the elec guitar, but I'm curious if anyone has any experience recording pedal steel guitar with a ribbon microphone. Anyone try a Cascade Vin-Jet with a pedal steel? For those that have some experience with ribbon, is there any reason why a long vs short ribbon or active vs passive would be preferred? I should also mention that I'm on a relatively tight budget, and can't spend more than $200 on a mic. Any reason NOT to go with a ribbon for Pedal steel? Any other suggestions for choosing the right gear to get the best recording of this instrument on a thin budget?

[zenben]

Bump-would really like some direction on micing and recording pedal steel guitar.

[dabigfrog]

what amp are you using?

example:
here is a shure sm7b with 2 different amps.
77 fender twin
55 gretsch deluxe electromatic

[dabigfrog]

sorry, i know its not a ribbon, and i do not have the solo ps tracks.

we were just grabbing a texture that fit the song...dif amp did the trick for certain songs... same mic same player.

i'm not saying a ribbon isn't your mic, i love ribbons...but it all depends on the sound your going for. for our purposes the sm7b with the foam taken off worked fine for what we needed to get. ymmv.

[feral frequency]

I record pedal steel quite often and have a fat head, vinjet and AEA r44. The 44 wins hands down but is quite a bit more money. I think that the fat head coupled with an sm57 is perfect for your needs.

As we all know the trick is in the player. Pedal steel isn't an easy instrument to play right. So many factors involved. But beautiful when done correctly.

[Gono]

At the studio I'm at, alot of times we use a 421 on the steel. Seems to work well for the instrument. I know it's not a ribbon but just my experience with micing steel's.

[zenben]

Thanks for the replies
I'm def interested in good sounding mics for pedal steel beyond ribbons. Thanks for the clip as well. No better way make a good decision than to hear it yourself.
Im using a small tube amp with a single 12" celestian 30 speaker. It's a Karvin vintage 16. Not the best amp for steel but the only tube I could afford. Humbucker pickups if that makes a dif. I really enjoy the warm vintage sounds of tubes and ribbons but I understand there are ither ways to get that sound just don't know what gear is needed.

I like the idea of the fathead + sm57. The sure sm7b sounds like a good fit but my understanding is it needs even more clean gain than a ribbon so unless there is an affordable pre amp and or mixer with A/D converter w good enough pre amps that I can afford I'm afraid it may be out of reach. I'm more of a guitar player than a recording engineer and have a very limited budget for recording gear.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using Gearslutz.com

[zenben]

just came across the long 24+ page thread of Sahiaman's Little Blondie mics, and after listening to all the sound samples, I'm really impressed! They are about the same price as the fathead, but I think the omnidirectional aspect may be better than a ribbon for my "home studio" issues (no sound proofing/sound booth). They have the warm full sound I enjoy and even work great on acoustic instruments. I don't imagine anyone has tried them on Pedal steel yet as they are relatively new, but I'd be excited to be the first.

I don't suppose I'll find a used pair, so I'll probably have to just get a single new one due to budget constraints. Let me know if anyone has any recent opinions on these mics that I haven't already read in the thread mentioned above, especially for clean elec. guitars since that's pretty similar to pedal steel. This mic seems to have a lot of the positive aspects of cheap ribbons without the pitfalls, but has it's unique sound quality as well and is still affordable. Anyone else feel this way who have actually USED the little blondie mics?

[Rob Coates]

Recorded some steel parts for my own CD a while ago and used a tube amp. I'm now regretting that decision as the steel parts sound way too mid rangey and don't eq well. I'd use a solid state amp and a condenser if I could do it over (the steel player is long gone). I wouldn't use a ribbon myself, as I wouldn't want to shave off the highs which are critical for a good steel sound.

[feral frequency]

I am sure the blondes are great mics. But I don't really enjoy condensors on guitar or steel. And I think it's the opposite for you with the omni function. If your room isn't treated then you will just pick up more room tone into the mic. Which may or may not be a good thing. I'm thinking not if you have no treatment done.

[feral frequency]

Originally Posted by Rob Coates

Recorded some steel parts for my own CD a while ago and used a tube amp. I'm now regretting that decision as the steel parts sound way too mid rangey and don't eq well. I'd use a solid state amp and a condenser if I could do it over (the steel player is long gone). I wouldn't use a ribbon myself, as I wouldn't want to shave off the highs which are critical for a good steel sound.

I agree with you on the solid state amp. But condensors are just a bit too bright for me. Which is why I like the 57 and a ribbon blended.

[feral frequency]

Originally Posted by feral frequency

I agree with you on the solid state amp. But condensors are just a bit too bright for me. Which is why I like the 57 and a ribbon blended.

Except maybe a U67

[dave gross]

A Fathead would work really well for the money. If you can step it up a little bit, you may be able to find a used AEA R92 for around $450-500. That's a great microphone that sounds fantastic on amplifiers (whether it's guitar, steel, pedal steel, etc). Very smooth and detailed. Worth it if you can spring for it!

[NESTrecording]

i've recently been trying my steel through a '62 brownface princeton, through a memory man with a little bit of gain. i usually mic with a sennheiser 441, but have also used the beyer m160 hyper-cardioid ribbon mic. i really like the beyer on guitars. it's very smooth, and captures a very true tone. we have had royer's and other high end ribbons here, and i'll say, especially for the studio on a budget, these beyer's are incredible.

[zenben]

While I'd love to own a "pedal steel amp," I only have the tube amp at my disposal (I'm a 6-string to PSG convert), and while I haven't mic'ed it yet, I find the sound extremely pleasing to my ear. I should probably mention that I'm using the steel primarily for slower moving melodic fills/intros/solos as well as ambiance behind acoustic and clean electric guitar and have been writing steel-centric, Daniel Lanois-esque pieces lately, and DI just doesn't cut it for this type of material. It just sounds empty and weak. I don't play behind a singer at this point and don't have a lot of engineering experience, so I'm really looking for something as close to "plug-and-play" as possible. I have a basic handle on EQ, just not a lot of experience with compression or other late-chain/post recording effects.

I just pulled the trigger on my first mic pre-amp=the m-audio DMP3 and am very excited to plug something into it soon! I'm getting more info on the little blondies from the designer of the mics, as many have commented that they are more directional than most omnis and seem to have a very rich, warm, full, and natural sound quality to them.

I have also been looking into a MXL-603S or Shure sm57 as an all-around instrument mic, likely to be used both alone on my acoustic guitar and together with either a fathead or whatever else I choose on the cab of the pedal steel and other elec guitars. Any one want to share their opinions on this?

[bobdaspit]

CAD Trion 7000. Cheap, and sounds great.

[zenben]

I found a used sm57 on CL that I'm picking up today as my first mic, and my plan as of now is to order a MXL40 from MF (they are only $69 on sale right now) to get a taste of ribbon mics. If there's anything wrong with it, I can return it within 45 days afaik, so I'm not too worried about quality control. It's the same motor as the fathead, and the low price makes me comfortable enough to buy it with the intention of testing it out to see if I prefer the sound to the sm57. With my DMP3 (in the mail) I'll get a chance to test them together, which may be a very cool, full sound...I just need to find an inexpensive interface that can handle both mics, but that shouldn't be too tough. I think the m-audio fasttrack can take 2 xlr inputs, and I saw a E-MU 1212m or something similar on my local CL for $80, and I think that one has even more inputs. I'll keep my eye on ebay as well-I saw a m-audio ultra 44 and a tascam US-122 USB ending today that were both very reasonable at this point (the m-audio is more, but is 4 inputs, 2 stereo, 2 mono, and is PCI). Would the tascam or other USB devices be problematic due to their internal pre-amps? I certainly want to be sure I can actually USE my new DMP3!!

[zenben]

Just an update-the sm57 on CL turned out to be a bust...no wonder it was so cheap. I got lucky on an ebay deal for a used m audio ultra 44 (PCI) but I'm still mic-less. Debating between trying out the MXL40 from MF to see if the ribbon sound is for me, or investing a bit more in a Cascade mic. I'm a little surprised that the fathead is the most recommended, as my understanding is it is a bit dark compared to the long ribbon models (Vin-Jet/Victor) while the long ribbons have a better high end...wouldn't that be good for pedal steel?? The victor seems like a steal at $170, but it' still $100 more than a MXL40...What about the Apex 205? That's a long ribbon design for under $150-similar to the Victor? Do folks like it for clean guitar (high end esp.)?

Still keeping my eye out for a used sm57 that sounds like it should or maybe a sennheiser E609 for stereo mic effects or just for another flavor.

I really need to stay under $200, so the ADA and Beyer are both out, as is the 441, however I'd love to have one someday :(