Freelancing & doubt?

[Anthon]

Hi there!

Little introduction: my name is Anthon (24), I live in Belgium. I have a degree at sound-engineering (my specialization is TV and film). Little bit spoiled by very expensive gear
I have little experience with acoustic music recording, though I'm a musician myself (not a good one), and I have been playing with DAWs, plugins for years now. So let's say I have the know-how, the ear, but not much experience.

I was thinking about doing semi-pro audio recordings. I'm still a student at a university, and I have sufficient incomes for now, so I don't need it to be a full-time job. But I can't do it for free either, because I just don't have the resources to buy expensive gear and getting nothing in return.

I do have some gear to start:
Macbook pro
Brauner Phantom Classic
Rode NT2a
Couple of rode and shure dynamic mics.
Nagra 4.2 tape recorder (for fun and vintage sound)
Line6 ux8 8-channel audio interface with preamps (not the best thing out there, but it should do for drums)

Going a step further (recording bands) would require some investments: I was planning on getting Focusrite ISA one digital, and couple of dynamics mics: your standard SM58, SM57, D112. Cables, acoustic screen, etc...

I also have some friends for my audio-school: a friend of mine has portable SONOSAX mixing desk, sounds very nice btw. Maybe we could exchange equipment from time to time.

I think there is no point in starting from poor recordings, it will lower your chances of building up a good reputation, so I need good gear.

First step would be to record some bands, make a good sounding portfolio, place it on a website. From there on, advertise yourself. Find a mastering engineer...

Notice that I hate studios! Recording on location is the only way for me.

Oh well, I guess I just answered all my questions myself just thinking out loud, dreaming ... still - it would be nice to hear other people, food for thought so to say.

[solo-bration]

Originally Posted by Anthon

But I can't do it for free either, because I just don't have the resources to buy expensive gear and getting nothing in return.

You also shouldn't work for free because that's crazy. It could be tough to eventually charge bands that you once worked for free. Also, if your time is free, bands will take advantage of that and projects may never be finished. You have to start somewhere, but charge something.

[Anthon]

Originally Posted by solo-bration

You also shouldn't work for free because that's crazy. It could be tough to eventually charge bands that you once worked for free. Also, if your time is free, bands will take advantage of that and projects may never be finished. You have to start somewhere, but charge something.

You are completely right about that. I must say I picked up a bad habit of doing everything for free at my audio-school.
"You must be motivated enough to do everything for free" they said... "Money will come eventually" they said... That is a load of BS.
So there is always a voice in my head: "nobody respects your efforts, nobody will ever pay you".
That's why I'm having really hard time deciding.

[kerouac]

I'm doing my current project for free, but it was as a favor to their drummer, a really good friend. They just needed to record one song and were willing to work off hours, so I threw them a bone. I made it clear to them my rates for additional work would apply and asked them in return to recommend me to other bands in the area at that rate if they were happy with the final project. They have a lot of gigs and a pretty good following in the area, so it didn't hurt. It's not something I would ever get in the habit of doing though.

[FinsterBruce]

I was just perusing the musicians section of Craigslist, and I came across an ad from a recent Engineering School graduate who wanted to do the first mix for free, and then charge $20 s song or $150 an album after that.

I'm extremely concerned that this kind of practice can do nothing but hurt our business. It's one thing to do something for free for a friend, or even as a spec deal with a contract and points or deferred payment in place - but to offer to do actual work for $20 bucks a song is just cheapening what we do for a living, and making it even more difficult for pros to get paid a decent rate.

I am constantly coming across the low deal mentality of artists not wanting to pay much more than you'd pay a waitress at a diner per hour, to take care of something that should be precious to them and worth paying for.

It doesn't seem to matter what credits or gear or experience you have to offer, competing against these low low rates is getting to be a real problem.

The thing is, even recent graduates are going to need to get paid properly one day. There comes a time when you need to charge for what you're doing or not bother.

In this age where everyone with a Mac thinks they're an engineer, we need to value what we offer and charge a reasonable rate. Especially now, actually.

If the artist cares enough about their project, then they should be prepared to pay for it to be done by somebody with the necessary skills. And if we care about what we're doing, then we should be prepared to either get paid or walk away. Even at the beginning of your career. Or you're going to find yourself with 30 years experience getting paid less than you did when you started out. Which by my calculations will probably be about minus 60 bucks an hour.

[daez]

Well it depends on your level of skill. Do you feel confident in your know how and can you command a session. If so don't work for free but if you feel you sill need experience or are not fully in command of the ship charging a rate may be for lack of a better term assbidding. Don't bite off more then you can chew but don't eat sh#$ either.

All in all good luck with your endeavors ...

[Anthon]

Originally Posted by FinsterBruce

I'm extremely concerned that this kind of practice can do nothing but hurt our business. It's one thing to do something for free for a friend, or even as a spec deal with a contract and points or deferred payment in place - but to offer to do actual work for $20 bucks a song is just cheapening what we do for a living, and making it even more difficult for pros to get paid a decent rate.

I am constantly coming across the low deal mentality of artists not wanting to pay much more than you'd pay a waitress at a diner per hour, to take care of something that should be precious to them and worth paying for.

Yes, I'm well aware of that phenomenon there is saturation of the market, people providing services for ridiculously small amounts of money. Amateurs can afford to work for free - professionals can not. I definitely don't want to be a part of it.

Maybe a good solution would be to ask a reasonable amount of money, but on "not-satisfied-money-back-principle" (if they decide not to pay, they don't receive the end product).
So they have nothing to loose, and I can gain experience and stuff for my portfolio, without sending the wrong message.
Also money, if I do my part properly. And if I screw up, no damage has been done.
Besides, I bet more people will be willing to try - and will be tempted to buy the recording, after they go trough the recording session and hear the result. Even if they would never have paid in advance.

[newdigitaluser]

Originally Posted by Anthon

Yes, I'm well aware of that phenomenon there is saturation of the market, people providing services for ridiculously small amounts of money. Amateurs can afford to work for free - professionals can not. I definitely don't want to be a part of it.

Maybe a good solution would be to ask a reasonable amount of money, but on "not-satisfied-money-back-principle" (if they decide not to pay, they don't receive the end product).
So they have nothing to loose, and I can gain experience and stuff for my portfolio, without sending the wrong message.
Also money, if I do my part properly. And if I screw up, no damage has been done.
Besides, I bet more people will be willing to try - and will be tempted to buy the recording, after they go trough the recording session and hear the result. Even if they would never have paid in advance.

you need to charge
and need to keep the money no matter what

if you are not confident enough in your skills
you should not yet be trying to sell your services

have a written contract
in case of "act of God" eg tornado, hurricane, etc.
or equipment failure not your fault eg electric power lost
etc. then they get a refund.

but if they dont like the recording - tough merde

and if you mix/master too then no free re-do or do over