2 tracks tape recorder, revox studer or what

[audioexmachina]

When bouncing to tape and back live, in REPRO mode, drift is compensated by both heads being affected nearly at the same time. The worst you can get, with a damaged machine, is flanging, but no drift.

[ears2thesky]

Unless you are willing to get serious about maintenance and calibration, you might try a product like this for tape sound experimentation.

Sound Skulptor - STS : Analog Stereo Tape Simulator, Professional Audio Kits

[babyfacenelson]

There's a good article here MULTITRACK MASTERING on bouncing down with limited channels - 3 track ampexs in early motown stuff

We've got a couple of studer B62s 1/4" 2 tracks which cost around a 100 euro each. We played with mixing down 2 tracks and bouncing across the machines but it was laborious and stifling. They get used now mainly to record drums and bass before putting into a digital multitrack. They've also been useful as 4 signal processors running straight into a multitrack. Recording the bottom end on tape works for what we do, and there's not much trade off in using digital to build tracks.

We master onto tape sometimes, but it's partly because we enjoy doing it that way. I don't know if it adds much. Sometimes a bit of tape compression works.

[stevevdb]

Revox:
B77 mkI or mkII, 2 track machines, normal speed or high speed edition.
Why: simple, easy to use, portable, excellent sound quality and easy to repair.
PR99 mkI, II or III: 2 track machines, normal speed and high speed available, high amount of electronics onboard, more professional allthough the body is that of a B77
A77 mkIV: 2 track machine, a dolby version does excist. The A77 mkIV is a good machine.

Why revox: the plugin audiocards can be repaired very easy, capstan board is very easy, powersupply will never break down, motors do last a lifetime, simple design, very good quality recording. One downside: heads do cost a fortune but revox can still deliver them or insert them in your machine and calibrate them on any tape you give them.

[Outlaw Hans]

Be prepared for maintanance costs, a calibration tape etc. Getting a tape machines is serious business.

the best value for money 2 track machine is the telefunken M15 (A). Quality wise they´re up there with Studer both in sound and in durability. They just go for a lot less. If you are in Europe that would be your best bet. In America an MCI would be a good choice.

[Brad McGowan]

Originally Posted by mikante

Thanks, very interesting!
but now I got even more doubts, this guy is actually recording and using the output of each track in "repro mode" to go directly into the daw during the take, he isn't recording through the deck, in this way there's some delay caused by the distance between the two heads.
So, in this way he can calculate the measure of the distance between the daw track and the tape sent to daw track and then use the value (witch I have not figured out yet how the hell he puts in numbers) on that plugin, voxengo, to get rid the gap between the two tracks.
what I don't understand, is that gap always the same during the whole take? it doesn't increase or decrease at his own wish? because that would make that gap unpredictable and not measurable, right? it's just a little delay, so you can easily match the two tracks recorded simultaneously just by moving one....am I messing things up?

I just found this thread and was thinking that you could benefit from the videos I made. Thanks to Justin for posting the link. I am most certainly recording through the deck. The sound is hitting the tape, being reproduced from the tape as it travels from record to playback head, and then is converted to digital and is captured by Cubase.

Every tape deck has a delay between the record and repro head caused by the physical distance separating them and the speed at which the tape is moving across them (time=distance/speed). The Voxengo plugin is used to trick the DAW into compensating for that delay (or latency). The important thing is that the plugin is on your input channel and delay compensation is turned on. The delay is constant for a given sample rate and tape deck speed. Yes, you can manually adjust the tracks to sync them up, but that's a lot of work. Let the technology do the heavy lifting for you. Work smarter, not harder.

If that technique is still confusing then I'd recommend just tracking to the computer and then bouncing all your tracks though the tape deck afterwards. No moving/aligning of tracks will be necessary and you will not notice a difference compared to doing it the other way. What you lose however is the benefit of hearing what the tape is doing to your tracks as you overdub and build up your production.

Good luck!
Brad

[stevevdb]

Originally Posted by Outlaw Hans

Be prepared for maintanance costs, a calibration tape etc. Getting a tape machines is serious business.

the best value for money 2 track machine is the telefunken M15 (A). Quality wise they´re up there with Studer both in sound and in durability. They just go for a lot less. If you are in Europe that would be your best bet. In America an MCI would be a good choice.

Telefunken M15 is indeed a robust machine but soundwise it's not that fantastic. The better one is a MCI machine or a studer one.
Starting small: revox b77 (still parts available), Teac X2000 (difficult machine to maintain), tascam 32 or 38 (good but not that excellent), otari mx5050.
Telefunken made far better machine then the M15.
Or, if you have the money: try a Nagra Kudelski machine, not the small ones but the large machines.

[azzzy]

Originally Posted by stevevdb

Telefunken made far better machine then the M15.
Or, if you have the money: try a Nagra Kudelski machine, not the small ones but the large machines.

Could you please post the models you would suggest for both Telefunken and Nagra Kudelski? Thanks.

[stevevdb]

Originally Posted by azzzy

Could you please post the models you would suggest for both Telefunken and Nagra Kudelski? Thanks.

extremely rare:
nagra kudelski T tape recorder
telefunken m21

[mattqualls]

I'm glad this thread popped up because a Revox A77 just popped up on the local craigslist here $275 and it "needs adjusting." I may grab it to print my mixes from my Allen & Heath Zedr16. But I just got the UBK-1 and it kills on the whole tape simulation thing. Any of you guys have suggestions on this?

[IdiotManchild]

A good 8-track deck will cost you some serious ca$h.

If you wanna be cheap get two 4-track Tascam cassette recorders, the ones with dbx noise reduction.

When you fill up all four tracks on the tape of first machine, bounce them down to the first track of the tape on the second machine. Now you have 3 more open tracks one machine 2.

You can fill up the tracks on machine 2, and if you need more, you bounce them back onto one track of a new tape on machine 1.

It will be gloriously lo-fi, but you won't have to deal with sync issues, and it'll sound very "warm" and "analog".

[azzzy]

Originally Posted by IdiotManchild

A good 8-track deck will cost you some serious ca$h.

If you wanna be cheap get two 4-track Tascam cassette recorders, the ones with dbx noise reduction.

When you fill up all four tracks on the tape of first machine, bounce them down to the first track of the tape on the second machine. Now you have 3 more open tracks one machine 2.

You can fill up the tracks on machine 2, and if you need more, you bounce them back onto one track of a new tape on machine 1.

It will be gloriously lo-fi, but you won't have to deal with sync issues, and it'll sound very "warm" and "analog".

Or you could just get an 8-track Portastudio.

[Outlaw Hans]

[QUOTE=stevevdb;7732922]Telefunken M15 is indeed a robust machine but soundwise it's not that fantastic. The better one is a MCI machine or a studer one.QUOTE]

Don't agree with you there. But hey, whatever you're into.

[Jack Luminous]

I have a Revox C270TC 1/4'' 15 ips 2 track machine. It sounds great, very reliable and still supported by Revox. The whole heart of the machine is the same as the Studer A807. It is practically the same without the jog/shuttle. They have all the replacement parts in stock at all time. It has a centre Time Code track so you can synchronize with any other machine/computer easily. You can find one for around a grand in good shape, though the Time Code option is quite rare.

[Trakworx]

Originally Posted by mattqualls

I'm glad this thread popped up because a Revox A77 just popped up on the local craigslist here $275 and it "needs adjusting." I may grab it to print my mixes from my Allen & Heath Zedr16. But I just got the UBK-1 and it kills on the whole tape simulation thing. Any of you guys have suggestions on this?

FWIW, UBK-1 is not a tape simulator. It is a distortion and parallel compression plug-in that has lots of analog-type mojo, but "analog" doesn't always mean tape. The same misconception often arises about Decapitator, which models tube hardware, not tape.

A reel to reel will do something different. IME when you print a console mix directly to 2 track analog there are sonic benefits that can't be achieved any other way. Not even layback mastering has the same effect as capturing an analog mix straight to tape. It has been proven over and over at my studio in direct comparisons between the same mix printed to and mastered from reels vs digital.

My suggestion is, if you mix on a console then get a good analog 2 track. That A77 might be a good deal, depending on how much work it needs, but if it's not, then keep looking

[IdiotManchild]

Originally Posted by azzzy

Or you could just get an 8-track Portastudio.

You could...

But an 8-track Portastudio has the narrowest track width in the known universe. Holy tape hiss, Batman!

[azzzy]

Originally Posted by IdiotManchild

You could...

But an 8-track Portastudio has the narrowest track width in the known universe. Holy tape hiss, Batman!

Tru dat. Personally I will take hiss over hassle. The ability to adjust individual levels to me is more important than the amount of hiss (which does get reduced with the onboard Dolby and later can be cleaned up with a plug in). But bouncing between two Portastudios seems like a great idea. I might try it (I have 2 8-tracks - haven't touched them in like 15 years though).

[mattqualls]

Originally Posted by Trakworx

FWIW, UBK-1 is not a tape simulator. It is a distortion and parallel compression plug-in that has lots of analog-type mojo, but "analog" doesn't always mean tape. The same misconception often arises about Decapitator, which models tube hardware, not tape.

A reel to reel will do something different. IME when you print a console mix directly to 2 track analog there are sonic benefits that can't be achieved any other way. Not even layback mastering has the same effect as capturing an analog mix straight to tape. It has been proven over and over at my studio in direct comparisons between the same mix printed to and mastered from reels vs digital.

My suggestion is, if you mix on a console then get a good analog 2 track. That A77 might be a good deal, depending on how much work it needs, but if it's not, then keep looking

Thanks for the reply man! I know the properties of the UBK-1, I just meant if I want to make something have a bit more of that tape feeling, then I can do it. But yes I do mix on the console and usually print the stereo mix back into logic but it would be nice to print it directly to a 2 track machine. I will definitely look into it, I just hope the heads are shot.

[Trakworx]

Originally Posted by mattqualls

Thanks for the reply man! I know the properties of the UBK-1, I just meant if I want to make something have a bit more of that tape feeling, then I can do it. But yes I do mix on the console and usually print the stereo mix back into logic but it would be nice to print it directly to a 2 track machine. I will definitely look into it, I just hope the heads are shot.

Now you have made me curious - what settings on the UBK-1 are giving you a tape-like effect? Density?

[mattqualls]

Originally Posted by Trakworx

Now you have made me curious - what settings on the UBK-1 are giving you a tape-like effect? Density?

Yeah man, I usually start with one of the tape simulation presets and tweak the headroom, density and saturation to taste. I know this isn't spot on but I feel it gets the point across. But I'm very curious to see how the Revox will affect my mix.

[Antony Scott]

Originally Posted by IdiotManchild

You could...

But an 8-track Portastudio has the narrowest track width in the known universe. Holy tape hiss, Batman!

NO PORTASTUDIOS!!
At least, you need to understand their limitations, especially satanic ... Hiss)))