64-bit recording, any experiences or rumours?

RainbowStorm · 25th April 2006

Sorry, this is in a way really my area of subject, but lately I have not done so much research so excuse me... I was just wondering if any of you have any experiences with 64-bit recording and processing? The problem so far with digital recording in 24-bit has been that differences result in sequences of calculation errors, for instance having A/D and D/A converters on different level of quality internally and externally cause damage on the material due to compensations by the engineers and due to inexact digital processing by the software algorithms. A typical example is that different consumers get different effect application results when setting up the same effect in an identical manner recording the same instrument. This has resulted in serious mix damage when the isolation of effect application hasn't been good enough, for instance when applying plug-ins on the mix output bus. True 64-bit recording and processing could solve some of this problem by making the conversion more transparent and the calculation errors much smaller, even though 16-bit dithering is applied in the end. Now that more and more OSes operate in 64-bit should give the manufacturers a good chance of taking advantage of this...

Doublehelix · 25th April 2006

The promise of 64-bit computing is indeed tempting!

As usual however, we will get some new wiz-bang recording technology that none of us will be able to live without that will still bring our computers to their knees no matter how powerful. It is one of the laws of nature... "no matter how powerful your computer... the programmers will find a way to bring it to its knees..."

Same thing with money... "No matter how much money you make, your wife will always find a way to spend it all..."

EDIT: CRAP!! I just re-read your post, and you are not talking about 64-bit computing, but 64-bit bit rate data storage. Sorry!

astronmr20 · 25th April 2006

I think that a good test will come when there are actually manufacturers ready to make boxes that make use of that sort of rate/ bandwidth.

What you are saying does make sense.

Remember though.. one of the "best" boxes out there for around $1200, the Metric Halo, was never even seen fit to go past 96khz at 24 bit. It's essentially the same design they came out with a few years ago, and it still sounds great against everything else in it's price range.

So... to really put that sort of archetecture to the test, I think a more "high-end" manufacturer would need to develop it to really see what woudl happen.

I'm sure it's on the hardware developers' minds, though. Such bit depth would require re-programming and re-desiging of many components, from converters to plugins, and undoubtedly require a next-generation of processors and hard drive speed, I think.

Makes you wonder what experiments the mad scientists are really up to....

nathanvacha · 25th April 2006

Considering the processing power, that may be digi-'s key to keeping people on their tdm technology. Native processing is toasting right now with track plug count, but a jump like that would keep all the big-spenders dropping coin for their proprietary system, right?

It's possible I know not of what I speak, just a thought.

That's the kind of thing they'd do though, right? Come out with a new system where you can't use any of your old hardware or software because nothing is compatible?

25th April 2006	#1
RainbowStorm Lives for gear Joined: Aug 2005 Posts: 2,076 Thread Starter	64-bit recording, any experiences or rumours? Sorry, this is in a way really my area of subject, but lately I have not done so much research so excuse me... I was just wondering if any of you have any experiences with 64-bit recording and processing? The problem so far with digital recording in 24-bit has been that differences result in sequences of calculation errors, for instance having A/D and D/A converters on different level of quality internally and externally cause damage on the material due to compensations by the engineers and due to inexact digital processing by the software algorithms. A typical example is that different consumers get different effect application results when setting up the same effect in an identical manner recording the same instrument. This has resulted in serious mix damage when the isolation of effect application hasn't been good enough, for instance when applying plug-ins on the mix output bus. True 64-bit recording and processing could solve some of this problem by making the conversion more transparent and the calculation errors much smaller, even though 16-bit dithering is applied in the end. Now that more and more OSes operate in 64-bit should give the manufacturers a good chance of taking advantage of this...

25th April 2006	#2
Doublehelix Lives for gear Joined: Jan 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,016	The promise of 64-bit computing is indeed tempting! As usual however, we will get some new wiz-bang recording technology that none of us will be able to live without that will still bring our computers to their knees no matter how powerful. It is one of the laws of nature... "no matter how powerful your computer... the programmers will find a way to bring it to its knees..." Same thing with money... "No matter how much money you make, your wife will always find a way to spend it all..." EDIT: CRAP!! I just re-read your post, and you are not talking about 64-bit computing, but 64-bit bit rate data storage. Sorry! __________________ DH "Nobody goes there anymore; it's too crowded." -Yogi Berra

25th April 2006	#3
astronmr20 Lives for gear Joined: Jun 2005 Posts: 8,424	I think that a good test will come when there are actually manufacturers ready to make boxes that make use of that sort of rate/ bandwidth. What you are saying does make sense. Remember though.. one of the "best" boxes out there for around $1200, the Metric Halo, was never even seen fit to go past 96khz at 24 bit. It's essentially the same design they came out with a few years ago, and it still sounds great against everything else in it's price range. So... to really put that sort of archetecture to the test, I think a more "high-end" manufacturer would need to develop it to really see what woudl happen. I'm sure it's on the hardware developers' minds, though. Such bit depth would require re-programming and re-desiging of many components, from converters to plugins, and undoubtedly require a next-generation of processors and hard drive speed, I think. Makes you wonder what experiments the mad scientists are really up to.... __________________ Steve There are two kinds of light — the glow that illumines, and the glare that obscures. — James Thurber

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25th April 2006	#4
nathanvacha Lives for gear Joined: Dec 2005 Location: Orlando Posts: 1,231	Considering the processing power, that may be digi-'s key to keeping people on their tdm technology. Native processing is toasting right now with track plug count, but a jump like that would keep all the big-spenders dropping coin for their proprietary system, right? It's possible I know not of what I speak, just a thought. That's the kind of thing they'd do though, right? Come out with a new system where you can't use any of your old hardware or software because nothing is compatible?