Advice on purchase...Dig Console? Analog?

[wonderlover]

I need some advice....

I am in need of a new console/mixer/router.
I currently have the first gen Tascam DM24 and the screen is completely gone. At this point, I use my DM24 as just a backend to feed headphone cues (with its onboard reverb) and monitor my track playback.

My current input chain is this ... Live Room inputs>Patchbay>Preamps>AD converters (Focusrite ISA 428)>MOTU 2408 (via ADAT)>Digital Performer

Then control room monitoring: ... Digital performer>MOTU 2408 outs (via ADAT)>Tascam DM24>Studio Monitors.

I send headphone cues to the band/singers via the Tascam Aux outs routed via ADAT to my HEARBACK system.

My question....I'm ready to get into a better console. The tascams preamps are unusable and the DA conversion for playback is I'M SURE LESS THAN STELLAR!

Id like to get into something (whether digital or analog) with good pre's, routing options for headphone cues, possible onboard FX for tracking (reverb for vocalists), et al.

Should I sell some gear and get into an analog board and by some DA converters? Or buy a solid Digital console?

Digital Consoles: any suggestions? StudioLive? Allen and Heath? Ramsa DA7?

I'm assuming I can sell some gear and spend 2-3k.

ANY opinions and suggestions would be appreciated!

[RightOnRome]

.. i have a studio live 16.4.2 for live recordings and i love it!

[wonderlover]

this is for a studio application ... I've heard good things about the studiolive but wonder how it will integrate with existing studio setups like mine.

[paul999]

If 2-3k is your entire budget it will be a little tough. For convertors the best cheapest convertors will be RME.IMO You can get 8 channels for about $1200 used. That leaves $1500 for a console. If you get a used console you'll need to have a budget for repairs etc. The best deal I see going is the D&R stuff. I have a D&R stylyx(older console) and the pre's are stellar as are the eq's. I put the eq's up against all the big boys and they stand up just fine. You don't get special effects out of them but you do get awesome sounding eq. The pre's are slower but deeper sounding with less harsh highs then API pre's. I prefer them to API on vocals and harsh sounding guitars. You can build a modular D&R system adding components as you go.

It is great stuff IMO.

[wonderlover]

IF i went with a digital board then i could skip the DA converters for right now until i can access more cash.

I'll take a look at that D&R board you recommended.

Another option is to try and get my TASCAM DM24 screen fixed .... but after 7 years, i might be ready for something new.

[paul999]

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/gears...lta-mixer.html

The D&R in this thread would leave you with options to fill modules in the blank spaces. Stellar stuff.

[minutiaman]

The best bang for the buck I've come across... the Toft ATB 8. You'd ring in closer to the 4k mark, but you'd be adding a whole arsenal of improvements to your rig. Decent pres, great EQ's, bussing (grouping), talkback, monitor control, etc. Plus... it's a very portable desk. I've got an ATB16 that I haul around all the time. Great, great value!

[wonderlover]

the only issue with getting an analog board is that I'll spend 4k on the console but still have the DA stage that is weak. At that point I'd be using my MOTU 2408 as my DA conversion stage and the DA converters on the 2408 are not good at all.

thats the reason why I'm trying to look at a dig board with good DA stage for monitoring....OR do I look for a AD/DA first?

[rosemeister]

All of these units have FireWire interfaces, and are in your price range.

Tascam DM 3200
Studio Live 16
Mackie Onyx 1640i
Allen & Heath Zedr16

[paul999]

Contrary to what you'll read here, conversion is much less important then front end by about 1000x. I would rather have a motu and a good front end then 20k worth or Burl and a presonus mic pre. I've done the tests time and again to prove this to myself. I've put m-audio, presonus, motu, echo up against, ADAT hd, RME, API convertors, apogee and Waves maxxbcl mastering convertors. Motu is not awesome but it is not as bad as M-audio which a bit worse then presonus. I think presonus have the best over gear in the low end. Motu is only slightly if at all better. You may or may not notice a difference between your motu and an RME. Stick with your motu and get a serious front end.

Front end first, convertors last.

[wonderlover]

Front end meaning: AD? or Pre's/EQ/Mics/Cabling?

Right now my AD is being handled by Focurite ISA 428's being clocked off my BIG BEN.

[paul999]

Originally Posted by wonderlover

Front end meaning: AD? or Pre's/EQ/Mics/Cabling?

Right now my AD is being handled by Focurite ISA 428's being clocked off my BIG BEN.

By front end I mean mic's, pre's compression and eq's and A/D(but don't get too hung up on AD). Your front end is fine with the 428. It is a solid unit with great AD. You are ready for an analog board IMO. A toft or D&R will add some serious sonic improvement. The mackie, soundcfraft, A&H stuff will be a sideways move at best. Eq's and compressors will give you some seriously fun toys.

[minutiaman]

The all-in-one desks dig desks like those mentioned in the previous post will be a step sideways IMO. They are convenient for live applications and running cue mixes, but will be a step sideways if you are really wanting to step up your studio's capabilities. One other thought... are you clocking the MOTU internally? If yes, you should try clocking to the ISA. That might make a huge difference.

[wonderlover]

good points.
I have 18 solid (IMO) pre's right now (focusrite, GreatRiver, TRUE Precision 8).
I'm a little nervous about an analog board due to service requirements if it breaks down....and $$$.

Also, monitoring for headphone cues for the band is HUGE for me. I want THE BEST sound getting into their headphones.

[wonderlover]

ALL of my dig gear (MOTU, Focusrite, etc) are being clocked/slaved off my APOGEE BigBen.

[wonderlover]

is there a dig board that is on par with some of the LOW-END THEORY analog boards?

I'm racking my brain to see what I can sell to make room for the TOFT or another board of equal quality.

I'm not TOOOO concerned with EQ as of right now because I generally subscribe to the thought of if you need tons of EQ, you got the wrong mic.

does the TOFT have good enough pre's to track with?

[toolate4roses]

A BLA mod is much cheaper than buying new converters, then you get to keep all the i/o options you've become accustomed to.

I'm casting my vote for the Toft as well. Phenomenal for the money.

[paul999]

Originally Posted by wonderlover

is there a dig board that is on par with some of the LOW-END THEORY analog boards?

I'm racking my brain to see what I can sell to make room for the TOFT or another board of equal quality.

I'm not TOOOO concerned with EQ as of right now because I generally subscribe to the thought of if you need tons of EQ, you got the wrong mic.

does the TOFT have good enough pre's to track with?

A wonderful theory that makes little sense in practice. Eq done well does has as much or more for mojo then a compressor and 1000x more then a pre. I have no idea what the toft pre's are like. Studios spend thousands on eq's and not because they have terrible tracking engineers. There is a reason there is an eq on every channel of an SSL and it is not to bail out crappy engineers. Make friends with eq. It is rare in pro mixes for anything to go untouched by eq.

[geezerrules]

Originally Posted by wonderlover

is there a dig board that is on par with some of the LOW-END THEORY analog boards?

I'm racking my brain to see what I can sell to make room for the TOFT or another board of equal quality.

I'm not TOOOO concerned with EQ as of right now because I generally subscribe to the thought of if you need tons of EQ, you got the wrong mic.

does the TOFT have good enough pre's to track with?

What about the Yamaha 01V96i? It's under $2500 and gives you everything that you are looking for. In fact, it can take the MOTU out if you want since it has a 16 X 24/96k I/O via USB2. It also has an available expansion slot if you want to add more analog or digital I/O.

[minutiaman]

The Toft pres are pretty decent. Tracking drums can be an issue (no built-in pads). I've had to hard-wire pads into my patchbay. No big deal... only cost a few bucks for the resistors.

[wonderlover]

how are the 01V's preamps?

[geezerrules]

Originally Posted by wonderlover

how are the 01V's preamps?

They're quite good. They do have the Yamaha high frequency thing happening (I think every pre since PM2K has had it) so they are a little bright. However they are very clean and have a good amount of gain.

[wonderlover]

interesting reply from BLA on mods on 2408mkIII and my current setup...

MY QUESTION:
Hello,

I'm a DP user and PT9 user that uses a 2408mkIII. I was doing some reading up on your BLA mods and had a few q's as to how this will help me given my current setup.

Here's my input signal path
Microphone > Preamp > Focusrite ISA 428 AD converter > 2408mkII via ADAT LIGHTPIPE > Apple Computer (ProTools or Digital Performer)

Output Signal Path
DP or ProTools > 2408mkIII > Tascam DM24 via ADAT LIGHTPIPE > Tannoy Active Reveal monitors.

Everything is being slaved to an Apogee BigBen for clocking. As you can see, my AD is being handled by my Focusrite ISA428's and my DA for monitoring is being handled by my Tascam DM24.

I dont currently use any of the analog stages of my 2408mkIII unless I'm tracking more than 16 inputs at one time, which is rare.

So, as I'm reading about your BLA mods, I'm seeing that only the analog stages are being modded and I'm unsure as to how this mod may improve my current setup.

I appreciate your time, if you have any to answer these inquiries. I've heard great things about 002 mods but would like to get some insight on the MOTU analog mods even if I'm not using the analog stages of my 2408.

thanks!


BLA RESPONSE
Hi Dallas--
Given your current setup you would experience no benefit from the modification. If you were to utilize the mod with the Micro Clock mk2 you'd see substantial improvement across your system, since the Big Ben has substantially higher output jitter than the Micro Clock mk2.

Cheers
BLA

[garymusic]

Very happy Yamaha 01V96 owner here. The new 01V96i looks really nice for the money. I have had my mixer 5 years and never had any issues with it. I don't use the AD in the mixer as I use external AD in my setup.

Sent from my HTC EVO.

[wonderlover]

looking at the Yamaha boards.
What's the difference between the 01v96 and the 01v96i?

[roc]

Originally Posted by wonderlover

looking at the Yamaha boards.
What's the difference between the 01v96 and the 01v96i?

+1 , and how good are the converters ?

[johnnyz]

Originally Posted by roc

+1 , and how good are the converters ?

The yami is a great choice,very stable,well built mixer,the newer version adds usb connectivity.

[Anghello]

All I can say is: stay away from digital.