Should I buy an SSL AWS?

[nimblemongoose]

My studio is currently making on average 500 a week after cost. I'm a mixing engineer with no live room. I'm tracking locally in world-class rooms, mixing in my studio, and through connections made at these various studios I'm looking at client expansion.

I own 40k worth of gear (being very conservative) in sellable equipment. I have a 45k deficit on a brand new AWS. There's a used AWS on vintageking right now with the price not listed. My best guess is a used AWS probably still goes for 50-60k.

With my current clientele and profit, I can pay this deficit off in 3 years with the cost of living taken into account.

Would you sell 40k worth of outboard with pro tools HD (for a native system) to finance a full-format console like the ssl with little to no outboard? I would, but maybe I'm just crazy.

[kraku]

The AWS isn't probably going to replace your most used/loved pieces of gear. Save the gear which you've used the most so far and sell the rest IF you decide to buy the AWS.

For example if you have stuff like reverbs and delays, you'll be needing them with or without the AWS. Also some character compressors might be missed if you sold them.

[nimblemongoose]

Originally Posted by kraku

The AWS isn't probably going to replace your most used/loved pieces of gear. Save the gear which you've used the most so far and sell the rest IF you decide to buy the AWS.

Well I did say 40k in "sellable" gear. What I implied was there's more gear that I won't sell.

[The Byre]

If you sell your ProTools, what are you going to record, edit and mix on?

I have yet to meet the situation, where some magic piece of kit solves all the problems and increases turnover.

There is never an easy fix. Here's a story -

If you are running a taxi company that is failing, it is hard to cut back on office staff, get drivers to work longer shifts and look for new sources of revenue and new contracts. It is far easier to buy a new fleet of shiny hybrids and launch an advertising campaign on how green you are, but that is exactly what happened to a colleague of mine. He advised a taxi company owner to get back to basics and concentrate on earning a profit. Some idiotic friend told the owner to invest in going green, which was just the sort of easy-fix answer the owner had hoped he would hear. The owner went to the bank, went deeper into debt and went bankrupt. He lost his company. He then lost his house and ended up as a taxi driver (again) working for his former competition. Easy!

One of your objectives should be to keep your fixed costs DOWN - not increase them!

[kraku]

Originally Posted by nimblemongoose

Well I did say 40k in "sellable" gear. What I implied was there's more gear that I won't sell.

In that case: go for it. I would

[AllBread]

To preface, I work at a studio that runs a Pro Tools TDM rig and an AWS-900. At home, I have a PT HD Native rig with 16 I/O, some outboard, and a Midas Venice for mixing. I'm constantly trying to juggle the best way to integrate my outboard but still be able to quickly recall a mix when the singer wants to replace one line or word from the first chorus with the same from the 2nd or the bass player who you haven't seen since tracking all of the sudden can't live with his intonation on 1 note in the bridge.

So, I think that it all depends on how you mix, really. Obviously the SSL recall combined with your Pro Tools sessions is a huge plus when it comes to all those little mix tweaks - especially without any outboard to patch and recall. And, of course, if you can't get a good mix going between plug-ins and 24 channels of SSL EQ and summing then the gear isn't the problem (especially if tracked using a good studio with nice analog gear.

Keep in mind the AWS900 only has two comps on it (in addition to the stereo comp) so you might want to budget in an x-rack with additional compressors in order to keep with the easy recall scheme. So, if you're like me and realizing that even a limited amount of outboard is making recall a pain (luckily when at home I have such a limited amount that I've taken to printing everything that hit outboard outside the box as a stem when I print the main mix - at work I find myself trying hit the outboard that I want while tracking so I can keep the mix to Pro Tools and the SSL) then the AWS is a great solution.

If you love the variety of outboard that you have, I'd check you the SSL Matrix to integrate all the outboard gear with the summing and automation on the Matrix. At first look it seems like an overpriced control surface, but when you dig into the details of how it routes and handles your outboard and it's recall ability you realize that it's a pretty useful solution. You could easily build a 16 channel version of the AWS-900 (with additional channels for summing) with a couple Xracks of EQ and Compression for about 45k so you need to ask yourself how many channels really need to get out of the box when mixing (and factor in the cost of quality convertors).

[nimblemongoose]

Originally Posted by The Byre

If you sell your ProTools, what are you going to record, edit and mix on?

I can sell my TDM system for a native system because I'll no longer need hardware insert delay compensation. If you really read my post, you'll know I'm not tracking out of my studio, and I have no need for low latency monitoring off HD, which would be replaced by cue mixes off the aws anyway.

[nimblemongoose]

Originally Posted by AllBread

Keep in mind the AWS900 only has two comps on it (in addition to the stereo comp) so you might want to budget in an x-rack with additional compressors in order to keep with the easy recall scheme. .

80% of my mix work comes from the tracking sessions I do at various studios. I generally get all the character I want going in. When I'm mixing I really only need subtle shaping and tightening. Mix time is when I can get anal about things since my clients aren't paying 90 an hour at another studio.

[nimblemongoose]

Originally Posted by The Byre

One of your objectives should be to keep your fixed costs DOWN - not increase them!

I work faster on a console. I can drop production time and increase my hourly fees which will equalize my profit off current clients I already work with and have a system, but I should be able to make more profit from new clients.

[AllBread]

Originally Posted by nimblemongoose

80% of my mix work comes from the tracking sessions I do at various studios. I generally get all the character I want going in. When I'm mixing I really only need subtle shaping and tightening. Mix time is when I can get anal about things since my clients aren't paying 90 an hour at another studio.

If that's the case then I'm with you - sell off some pesky outboard and get yourself an AWS-900! Workflow wise, I absolutely love being able to hit that magic button and instantly have Pro Tools Fader/Pan/whatever control at my fingertips and then switch right back to analog. Between that, the relatively easy recall and those fantastic EQ's that let you get aggressive as you want I think that it's a great choice on the used market. It will speed things up, make recalls a ton easier, and you'll really enjoy using it. Plus the new clients that your courting will come in and say, "Sweet, dawg, an SSL!".

My two complaints about the console are the mic pres (certainly usable, but sure wish SSL would buy API and put their mic pres in it) and that it only comes with two comps stock. Since neither one apply to you I think that you'll really love having it.

Oh, by the way, I love HD Native and don't think that you'll regret that switch at all. Paired with a newer 8 core mac there's sessions that I run at home that kill the systems at work.

[cinealta]

Don't do it. Maybe consider a Matrix to incorporate your outboard.

[The Byre]

Does it have to be an AWS? That's a very expensive pice of kit - for what it is.

Couldn't you work with an ordinary analogue desk?

[nimblemongoose]

Originally Posted by The Byre

Does it have to be an AWS? That's a very expensive pice of kit - for what it is.

Couldn't you work with an ordinary analogue desk?

Show me another option with surgical eq, some dynamics, and DAW control in the same price range! The price is no problem since I can budget it.

[muziekschuur]

I'd wait alil longer. A Matrix looks to be a competitive piece. With as much appeal as the AWS900.

[CJ1973]

Originally Posted by muziekschuur

I'd wait alil longer. A Matrix looks to be a competitive piece. With as much appeal as the AWS900.

Does Matrix come with EQ? To me the Matrix is a big brother of the Xdesk but not quite a small brother of the AWS...

[mc_deli]

To the OP - don't forget to budget for patching. We are just hooking up an AWS948 and we have ended up with a 400+ point TT patchbay just for line level stuff. $$$

Good luck with decision

[The Byre]

Originally Posted by nimblemongoose

Show me another option with surgical eq, some dynamics, and DAW control in the same price range! The price is no problem since I can budget it.

A used Amek (or similar) and a Pro Control?

[muziekschuur]

Nope. Will give you the SSL native plugins...
I think this is a very well designed solution. Put in a nice Argosy desk, or custom flightcase will give you a fast and portable solution you can set up anywhere and take with you fast and easily.

[rosemeister]

I don't know. The Matrix with the X-desk is pretty neat, and cheaper. You could build it modularly with all of the hardware patching in the Matrix.

Why pay for the pre-amps on the AWS?

[nimblemongoose]

The Matrix isn't a professional solution by a long shot. I don't want to see it listed here as a possibility again. It's worthless to me. The 16 channel digi/analog patchbay is such a gimmick.

[Matt Grondin]

Cough 1608 with automation cough. AWS900 will help your workflow, but is it really gonna sound that much better than ITB. Probably. Will it sound like a full-format SSL. Probably not. Will it sound like an API? Definitely not. Then again, SSL is not my sound, YMMV.

[rosemeister]

I meant X-rack not X-desk.

[paul999]

I don't think this is so much about should I get an AWS as much as it is a question of "How does my business model need to change to keep current" You are already making some money which is 900% better then most. Congrats! You are in the top percentile. The question really needs to be what is going to improve your bottom line and bring you up from 24k a year. At 24 k a year I don't think anyone is ready to buy an AWS to be honest. To get a business going you bank on what money you will be making but as you turn the corner and become successful, which you have, your view of risk taking needs to change. Now you have a lot to lose which, when you were getting going, you didn't. I would say you are ready to buy a cheaper console like a D&R, MCI used, or a million other bargains. I totally get the "I work quicker on a console" view. I budget about 5% of gross earnings into new gear now that I am set up compared to the 40-70% I was dumping in as I was getting going. Bring down the equipment expense % will be paramount now. Instead of saying to yourself "how do I get into an AWS at almost any cost and tell myself this is a good idea". I would say "How much do I need to earn to have this make sense"?

BTW. Even though I think your crazy Doesn't mean you shouldn't do it. Your instincts have been good thus far. As soon as people tell me I'm crazy I know I am on the right track

Good luck and continued success.

[Matt Grondin]

Originally Posted by nimblemongoose

Show me another option with surgical eq, some dynamics, and DAW control in the same price range! The price is no problem since I can budget it.

Originally Posted by Matt Grondin

Cough 1608 with automation cough. AWS900 will help your workflow, but is it really gonna sound that much better than ITB. Probably. Will it sound like a full-format SSL. Probably not. Will it sound like an API? Definitely not. Then again, SSL is not my sound, YMMV.

Aha, I retract my above statement. I like analog consoles with automation, could care less about DAW control, and if I need dynamics on every channel, something is seriously wrong with my tracking skills. Obviously, your style of working is different, but equally, if not much more effective. Guess I'm old-school (at 29, haha).

[rosemeister]

Originally Posted by nimblemongoose

The Matrix isn't a professional solution by a long shot. I don't want to see it listed here as a possibility again. It's worthless to me. The 16 channel digi/analog patchbay is such a gimmick.

Sounds like you made up your mind already. Just buy the AWS.

[nimblemongoose]

Originally Posted by Matt Grondin

Cough 1608 with automation cough. AWS900 will help your workflow, but is it really gonna sound that much better than ITB. Probably. Will it sound like a full-format SSL. Probably not. Will it sound like an API? Definitely not. Then again, SSL is not my sound, YMMV.

I love the API sound. I have a bunch of their racks, but the 1608 is still a little small for me.

[Matt Grondin]

Originally Posted by nimblemongoose

I love the API sound. I have a bunch of their racks, but the 1608 is still a little small for me.

Cough 16 channel expander cough. Haha, I know we're getting out of your budget at this point.

[nimblemongoose]

Originally Posted by Matt Grondin

Cough 16 channel expander cough. Haha, I know we're getting out of your budget at this point.

I track here most of the time anyway! Vintage API Recording at an Affordable Price in Los Angeles - Stagg Street Studio

The API signature is surging through my sound.

[muziekschuur]

Go to the bank, arrange a loan and get a new one... I believe the newer offering 924 or 948 to be better....

The SAE NEVE console is maybe another option.

But in your pricerange you could allso get a 4000 SSL. Refurbed and all...

[ionian]

Originally Posted by nimblemongoose

The Matrix isn't a professional solution by a long shot. I don't want to see it listed here as a possibility again. It's worthless to me. The 16 channel digi/analog patchbay is such a gimmick.

Sounds like to me your mind is made up and you already want the AWS and you're scared to drop that kind of cash and you're just looking for a bunch of people to tell you it's OK.

So add me to the list. It's OK. Go get the AWS.


Regards,
Frank