Sennheiser 421 vs. Sennheiser 904 for toms...I'm torn, (Help with toms!)

[DrummerGuy09]

Ok, so lately I've had the hardest time with recording toms. I have always used sm57's on them and lately they are just not cutting it. The toms are tuned well, so thats the not problem. I've been looking into a new set of tom mics. At first i wanted to go with the 421's, and still do. Lately i have been looking at the Sennheiser 904 clip on's for toms. They're cheaper, so that a plus but then again I've always loved the 421's when I used them in another studio. Does anyone have expierence with both? I guess i just need some advice from some more expierenced than I.

Or maybe it's my processing thats messing up. I've never known what to do to toms. Sometimes i compress them but then it feels like i sucked the life and warmth out of it. I would love to know what you gearslutz do to your toms! (that sounds bad )

[Chris Parsons]

If the tom sounds good in the room it will sound good through a 57, a 421 will be an improvement from that still. Is the drum dosen't sound good in the room then no mic will help.

I've never used the 904s but I doubt they sound as good as a 421. I fyou do get the 904 try to not use the clips, use stands...you don't need any extra vibration on the mic capsule.

let us know what you decide :-)

-Chris

[Bat Head Sound]

A 904 is designed to be an improvement of the 604, which was a spin off of the 504. I have never used the 904, but I have used 604's and 504's. In my opinion, the 421's sounded better. The other two didn't seem to have all the fullness that the 421's had. The 421's made the toms sound more like toms and less like boxes. However, the 604's work VERY well in a live application. It all depends on your budget. If you can afford to get 421's, go for it. Plus, you can use them on other sources as well.

[DrummerGuy09]

Thanks for the replys!
I think i'm going to go with the 421's...

As far as processing goes... I'm still lost...
Do most of you compress and gate the toms?

[Bat Head Sound]

I usually compress, I don't always gate....

[u b k]

there're a couple of things you could try:

1) gate the tom hard and fast, compress the snot out of it. when the fill comes, automate the overheads/room to give the bulk of the tone and depth and push up the close mics for splat.

2) use a transient designer, or equivalent plug, spike up the first 20ms or so, and just a hair of a push on the very tail, after 500-700ms. instant hugeness.

i prefer #2, but that's because i'm addicted to transient shaping on every drum track; it's much more flexible and interesting to me than gating/compression.


gregoire
del ubik

[nathanvacha]

well, 421=thumbsup

[SK1]

I have 421's and atm 25's .... both are cool atm 25's are less expensive.

I like the clip on senheisers for live apllications ( PA )

But I would never clip on anything to a drum set in the studio ..... it picks up to many vibrations from the whole kit. Use mic stands no matter what.

My 2 cents



Good luck !!!

[Sounds Great]

EV N/D408 or N/D468. Try it out.

[TML]

I've used 421 408 57 604 ...etc......came to the conclusion...if the drum sucks...it sucks...they all work..it's just a tom...go back to makin the record.....

[Rick Sutton]

Originally Posted by DrummerGuy09

Thanks for the replys!
I think i'm going to go with the 421's...

As far as processing goes... I'm still lost...
Do most of you compress and gate the toms?

421's absolutely.
As far as processing goes. Don't compress or gate. Bestest, cheapest thing for toms is Ashly GQX1502 eq's. No kidding. Dirt cheap on Ebay. Beats out just about any eq/processing for toms that you can find at any price.

[seaneldon]

every time i buy another md421 (i've owned lots of them), i always buy 2 extra clips. they break like bread. unbelievable. good microphone though.

[deve]

421. Worst clip I've seen. it lets the mic fall on its head. I've just lost one of them and it hurts. and by the way are they repairable?

[mixerguy]

421

nothing else 4 me on toms.

[picksail]

I used the 421s for years. I now use those Senn 904s almost exclusively.

[Han]

Originally Posted by deve

421. Worst clip I've seen. it lets the mic fall on its head. I've just lost one of them and it hurts. and by the way are they repairable?

This must be at least the fifth time I post this image, the original MD421 clip sucks balls. Everybody must have a broken SM57/58 clip every now and then. They're ideal for making an MD421 clip from that never breaks. Make it fit tight and the mic will never fall on it's face again, plus that it'll cost you nothing, just ten minutes of work.

[wyomingbound]

Originally Posted by deve

421. Worst clip I've seen. it lets the mic fall on its head. I've just lost one of them and it hurts. and by the way are they repairable?

Probably better to buy new clips instead of trying to repair it (superglue?). Here's some examples of replacements....

shockmount:
http://www.fullcompass.com/product/276073.html

regular mount:
http://www.fullcompass.com/product/298000.html

[deve]

I am sorry. Probably my english is causing confusion here. But it's the mic itself that I am worried about. It's broken. no sound is coming out of it. Are they servicable or is it just trash now? By the way that picture is really cool. I am going to do that for my three remaining 421's. thanks

[deve]

shockmount looks cool.

[Han]

Deve, check the mic for broken wires or contacts. There's a small plate with the serial number, remove it and you'll find a small screw under it.

[PoorGlory]

No one seems to have much love for the Beta 56's... which I think are awesome. Never have much trouble getting the sound I need from them.

[Chapiro]

Ive used both, a friend had some 904's and i used them for a session for a hard rock band and its the worst tom sound ive ever gotten, i realise this could be beause of a series of factors like the drummer, tunning etc. although, the drums sounded good in the room. if its for studio work its 421's for me or 414's or at 4050's

[deve]

Originally Posted by Han

Deve, check the mic for broken wires or contacts. There's a small plate with the serial number, remove it and you'll find a small screw under it.

yes, that's what I been looking for: the screw!!!

[Detuned6]

Originally Posted by wyomingbound

Probably better to buy new clips instead of trying to repair it (superglue?). Here's some examples of replacements....

shockmount:
http://www.fullcompass.com/product/276073.html

Anyone have the shockmount? Looks cool but, it uses the the same clip to attach to the shockmount. So basically you would have the same problem of the clip letting go and the mic sliding down the tom bouncing off the snare falling to the ground.
I need new tom mics, and I have one md421 for the floor tom, but I am coward to buy 2 more for toms and have them get ruined by a stick or the floor.

[Han]

Originally Posted by Detuned6

Anyone have the shockmount? Looks cool but, it uses the the same clip to attach to the shockmount. So basically you would have the same problem of the clip letting go and the mic sliding down the tom bouncing off the snare falling to the ground.
I need new tom mics, and I have one md421 for the floor tom, but I am coward to buy 2 more for toms and have them get ruined by a stick or the floor.

Gaffa tape can save your 421.

[chandlersonic]

I usually go for the 421, sometimes the 4050, km84 are amazing too. I've used the 604 and it has too much of that " bouncing basketball" sound. I kept them, they are so cheap there was no point in selling them and they've come in handy: when a crazy 16 year old drummer who can barely play comes in and I see his drumsticks flying left right and center, I put up the 604s, I eq them and get a decent sound and I don't have to worry about him destroying a more expensive mic.

[Chris Doremus]

If 421s aren't for you then try-shure beta 91s the ones that clip on. They rock ass! Or 414s. Actually I generally like condensers on toms. Try them through 1073s if you can.

[warhead]

Drummerguy, in my experience the CAD M179 will kill the 421 on toms in sound, versatility and ease of placement. Depth for days, perfect attack, and sound great on rack and floor toms.

War

[bobwarren]

My first experience with the MD421 was recording sax in a room with tile floors and dropped the same mic twice because of that dang clip!! Mic still works but I wish the clips were made out of aluminum. Those clips break too easy. I love the mic on toms and occasionally, kick.

[tiger vomitt]

Originally Posted by Han

This must be at least the fifth time I post this image, the original MD421 clip sucks balls. Everybody must have a broken SM57/58 clip every now and then. They're ideal for making an MD421 clip from that never breaks. Make it fit tight and the mic will never fall on it's face again, plus that it'll cost you nothing, just ten minutes of work.

hey about this here....can you please add detail to how you did that? it's a shame to spend $35 on a 421 clip, for like $1 worth of plastic....
thanks Han!