Monitor size/room size?

[stones@rocheste]

I'm currently building a small studio for home recording. It will be about 12X12. Should the size of the room influence the size of the nearfield monitors I purchase?

Thanks

[jdjustice]

In a word, yes. You don't want huge monitors in a 12x12 room. Look for good monitors with perhaps a 6" or 8" woofer.. I don't know what your budget is but I happen to think the Tannoy Precision active monitors are a good deal IMHO. Of course, if you can afford them the ADAM S series is excellent too.. Just my very subjective opinion.

jdjustice

[Kalite Marka]

STOP!
Don’t build it! Even if you did knock it back down (if you can)!
12x12 is square and even a pair of $100,000 top of the line monitors will be troublesome in that room.
Room acoustics is more important than the mic, pre, eq, comp and monitors.

[Ethan Winer]

Joe,

> It will be about 12X12. <

As Kalite pointed out that's a big mistake. 12 by 12 is not really large enough for a good low end anyway, and a square shape only makes things worse. You want to aim for dimensions that are as unrelated as possible. Some good ratios of length, width, and height are:

1 : 1.14 : 1.39
1 : 1.30 : 1.90
1 : 1.50 : 2.50

You'll find other good ratios listed, and an explanation of the principles, in my Acoustics FAQ:

www.ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html

Look for the section about room modes, and also the ModeCalc program you can download for free.

--Ethan

[Bob Olhsson]

Originally Posted by jdjustice

In a word, yes. You don't want huge monitors in a 12x12 room.

This isn't exactly true.

From a hi-fi standpoint speakers with a limited low-end will be less troublesome however they'll still have a limited low-end which is a problem from a monitoring standpoint.

Unless you have a solid, acoustically isolated room, chances are the low frequencies will pass right through the walls making the room effectively much larger acoustically.

[warhead]

Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson

This isn't exactly true.

From a hi-fi standpoint speakers with a limited low-end will be less troublesome however they'll still have a limited low-end which is a problem from a monitoring standpoint.

Unless you have a solid, acoustically isolated room, chances are the low frequencies will pass right through the walls making the room effectively much larger acoustically.

Sometimes I miss the old mobile office I used to record in (10'x40' office trailer) as the low end just flew through the walls and it was never boomy in there.

War

[andy3]

mistake

[andy3]

Originally Posted by Ethan Winer

Height Width Length
1 : 1.14 : 1.39
1 : 1.30 : 1.90
1 : 1.50 : 2.50



--Ethan

Height Width Length

[andy3]

good!!

thank you Ethan
I'm not sure I understood.
For example
h = 2m; w = 2,14m; L = 2,39m

is good?!?

Thanks

[O.F.F.]

Those are ratios so if your smallest dimension is 2m than 1 equals 2m and that would give you room dimensions of

2m x 2.28m x 2.78m.

[rcb4t2]

I've been going through a ton of planning / research about a new space, and I found a ton of great info at the following places:

John Sayers Productions
Ethan Winer - Home Page (Ethan already chimed in, just wanted to +1 his info and reputation)

Also the Rod Gervais book Build it like the Pros was of great help.

It's important not to get too bogged down in these resources, because it'll take you WAY down the rabbit hole if you let it, but being aware of the considerations and "professional consensus" on treatments, room sizes, construction methods, etc etc etc is invaluable.

Good luck!

Edit: re: Room Ratios. I made a very simple excel document where I input ceiling height, and it outputs dimensions following the 6 recommended ratios (sepemeyer and louden (sp?), 3 of each). Since ceiling height is almost always either fixed or in round numbers, I found it helpful to start with height and work from there.

[andy3]

Originally Posted by O.F.F.

Those are ratios so if your smallest dimension is 2m than 1 equals 2m and that would give you room dimensions of

2m x 2.28m x 2.78m.

Sorry but.. looking at

Height Width Length
1 : 1.14 : 1.39
1 : 1.30 : 1.90
1 : 1.50 : 2.50

If smallest is 2m and we take the first line..

why you say 2m x 2,28m x 2,78 m!?!?
Where is 1 : 1.28 : 1.78 !?!?

Sorry and thank you

Than as far as I got
1 = should be the H

[andy3]

Originally Posted by rcb4t2

I've been going through a ton of planning / research about a new space, and I found a ton of great info at the following places:

John Sayers Productions
Ethan Winer - Home Page (Ethan already chimed in, just wanted to +1 his info and reputation)

Also the Rod Gervais book Build it like the Pros was of great help.

It's important not to get too bogged down in these resources, because it'll take you WAY down the rabbit hole if you let it, but being aware of the considerations and "professional consensus" on treatments, room sizes, construction methods, etc etc etc is invaluable.

Good luck!

Edit: re: Room Ratios. I made a very simple excel document where I input ceiling height, and it outputs dimensions following the 6 recommended ratios (sepemeyer and louden (sp?), 3 of each). Since ceiling height is almost always either fixed or in round numbers, I found it helpful to start with height and work from there.

Thanks, I' m in the mess

I have 4x4 and I'm going for room into the room + room treatmnet for mix, so.. wof..
driving crazy
: )

[Ethan Winer]

Originally Posted by andy3

1 = should be the H

Up, down, left, right - none of that matters to sound waves. My personal convention is to state room ratios as L:W:H but it doesn't really matter.

Also, even when a ratio is very good, the room size is still very important. A room only 2 meters long or wider is awfully small.

--Ethan

[O.F.F.]

Originally Posted by andy3

Sorry but.. looking at

Height Width Length
1 : 1.14 : 1.39
1 : 1.30 : 1.90
1 : 1.50 : 2.50

If smallest is 2m and we take the first line..

why you say 2m x 2,28m x 2,78 m!?!?
Where is 1 : 1.28 : 1.78 !?!?

Sorry and thank you

Than as far as I got
1 = should be the H

Because its ratios not actual measurements.
If 2m is your smallest actual dimension than you have to take that as '1'.
Since 2m is two times '1' you will have to double the other ratios to get the actual measurements.

So if the ratios are 1 : 1.14 : 1.39 that will give you a room of 2m x 2.28m x 2.78m.
Or if you use 1 : 1.30 : 1.90 it will give you a room of 2m (2m x1)x 2.60m(2m x1.30) x 3.80m (2m x1.90).

Or if your smallest dimension is 2.5m your room should be 2.5m (2.5m x1) by 2.85m (2.5m x1.14) by 3.475m (2.5m x1.39) if using the first set of ratios.

Hope that makes things clearer.

[andy3]

Originally Posted by O.F.F.

Because its ratios not actual measurements.
If 2m is your smallest actual dimension than you have to take that as '1'.
Since 2m is two times '1' you will have to double the other ratios to get the actual measurements.

So if the ratios are 1 : 1.14 : 1.39 that will give you a room of 2m x 2.28m x 2.78m.
Or if you use 1 : 1.30 : 1.90 it will give you a room of 2m (2m x1)x 2.60m(2m x1.30) x 3.80m (2m x1.90).

Or if your smallest dimension is 2.5m your room should be 2.5m (2.5m x1) by 2.85m (2.5m x1.14) by 3.475m (2.5m x1.39) if using the first set of ratios.

Hope that makes things clearer.

shit I' m fuking stupid : )

Yeah now I got you 100% clear, thank you!!!

[andy3]

Originally Posted by Ethan Winer

Up, down, left, right - none of that matters to sound waves. My personal convention is to state room ratios as L:W:H but it doesn't really matter.

Also, even when a ratio is very good, the room size is still very important. A room only 2 meters long or wider is awfully small.

--Ethan

Ethan for example I could have
3x2 or 2,5 x 3,5 or 3x3 or 3,5 x 3
What size you think is better? I guess 2,5 x 3,5 isn't it?

I ask you because I need to build a room into a room and the starter room is 4x4m h 2,75,

Thank you really guys

[Ethan Winer]

^^^ With tiny rooms like those, I'd take which room has the largest / longest dimensions and ignore the ratio.

--Ethan

________________
The Acoustic Treatment Experts

[andy3]

Originally Posted by Ethan Winer

^^^ With tiny rooms like those, I'd take which room has the largest / longest dimensions and ignore the ratio.

--Ethan

________________
The Acoustic Treatment Experts

Even If You got the square?

[Ethan Winer]

^^^ I'd have to see the specific trade-offs. But a larger room has more space for bass traps.

--Ethan

________________
The Acoustic Treatment Experts