Synesthesia Mandala Electric Drum!

[JBonham]

Originally Posted by DrumMjr

I recently moved to London and bought the Korg Wavedrum Oriental, I am planning on setting up a full set of electronic drums in the future, however it is lacking in quite a few features. I am strongly considering returning it and buying the Mandala instead. What are the advantages of the Mandala over the Korg Wavedrum Oriental?

Thanks for the advice!

DrumMjr

I have a standard full kits of electronic drums at home, the Roland TD-20SX. If you decide to go that route, let me save you some time. After reading Allez's glowing in-depth review of the Mandalas and researching them on my own, I've decided to replace all my V-drums with Mandalas. After months of playing the single-zone, non-position-sensitive v-drums, making the switch to Mandalas is like night and day.

Also something exciting I found that Allez didn't mention, you can even use a foot pedal with a Mandala drum to "work the hi-hats"

[Allez]

Originally Posted by JBonham

Also something exciting I found that Allez didn't mention, you can even use a foot pedal with a Mandala drum to "work the hi-hats"

That's so cool! and adds a whole new dimension of possibilities! I can see that working by mapping out the hi-hat position samples horizontally as usual, while the pedal cycles vertically through maybe 16 pad presets from open hi-hats to all the way closed. What program would you use to set that all up? I think you would need something beyond the virtual brain software.

[thechrisl]

Maybe I missed this but can the Mandala be used as a controller for drum sample sets, i.e. BFD, Toontracks, even Kontakt libraries?

[Allez]

Originally Posted by thechrisl

Maybe I missed this but can the Mandala be used as a controller for drum sample sets, i.e. BFD, Toontracks, even Kontakt libraries?

yes. it has usb midi output and can be used as a controller separate from the virtual brain software. and you still get the position sensitivity.

[JBonham]

Originally Posted by Allez

That's so cool! and adds a whole new dimension of possibilities! I can see that working by mapping out the hi-hat position samples horizontally as usual, while the pedal cycles vertically through maybe 16 pad presets from open hi-hats to all the way closed. What program would you use to set that all up? I think you would need something beyond the virtual brain software.

It would work with Native Instrument's Battery 3 software. The regular virtual brain sound library can be imported and Synesthesia also provides an additional free collection of presets designed specifically to be used with Battery 3. http://synesthesiacorp.com/faq.html

[Allez]

I found this midi foot pedal for ~$100 that seems like it would work but it's kind of expensive for something that just scales the pedal position into a midi cc number. Are there more reasonably priced ones out there? Or does anyone have experience making your own? Maybe gutting out an old wah-wah pedal and sticking in an arduino microcontroller?

[Allez]

Something similar to this: Instructables - DIY MIDI Expression Pedal

[JBonham]

Originally Posted by Allez

Something similar to this: Instructables - DIY MIDI Expression Pedal

That sends an analog signal over TRS which works as a midi expression pedal assuming you have the hardware inputs to accept it. For using with a computer it should be digital over usb, and I agree an arduino would be a good way to do it. Check this out, I found a write-up someone did just about this, shiftmore: Quick and Dirty Arduino Midi Over USB. Would make a fun project.

[Allez]

ha i actually have that exact midi-to-usb converter they mention for my keyboard. Thanks for finding those instructions

[JBonham]

Sweet video of the drummer from King Crimson tearing it up. The synth sounds he gets out of the mandala here really compliment the rest of his drumming and is the type of thing I'm looking forward to when mine get here!

[DrumMjr]

Originally Posted by Allez

yes. it has usb midi output and can be used as a controller separate from the virtual brain software. and you still get the position sensitivity.

When you say it has midi output, how exactly does that work? Are the zone capabilities still preserved if you're not using it with the virtual brain?

[Allez]

Originally Posted by DrumMjr

When you say it has midi output, how exactly does that work? Are the zone capabilities still preserved if you're not using it with the virtual brain?

Yes you can still make use of the zones even without the virtual brain program. Each strike outputs a midi note with velocity, and a position value ranging from 0 at the center to 127 at the edge. The zones capabilities are preserved because the zones determine which note value is sent, from Middle C (60) in the center zone, C# (61) for middle-inside, D (62) for middle-outside, and D# (63) for the edge zone. The rim and Xstick strikes are E (64) and F (65). The Mandala mk2.9 is a standard USB MIDI controller that will work with any 3rd party MIDI controllable application and no special drivers are needed. For easy integration with your external setup, you can also choose which midi channel the mandala operates on as well as which CC# will carry the position values.

[Allez]

Originally Posted by Allez

Virtual Brain Software

Cons

• Not available as a VST

I want to expand on this a bit because I think it's important people realize what this means and whether it might or might not affect how you use your Mandala drum. VST's are plugins that expand the functionality of and run from within digital audio workstations (DAW) such as Cubase and Reason. They are most commonly virtual instruments or effects that seamlessly integrate with the rest of the program. Since the Virtual Brain software is not currently available as a VST, it must be used separately as a standalone program.

This is not to say that the Mandala cannot interact with and be used to it's full capabilities from within a DAW program, because it can. It just takes a little more effort from the user to decide how the program should use the Mandala. In fact, exploring this manual control gives you even greater freedom to customize the sound you get out of the Mandala than can be achieved through the virtual brain program alone. Remember, the virtual brain is just one of many possible interpretations of Mandala's high resolution midi information. The entire sample library that ships with the Mandala can be imported to the DAW if you like, so you can still use the all of the quality samples and more for your own interpretation.

For the vast majority of drummers who want a product that is functional, reliable, and easy to use live, they will be more than satisfied with using the virtual brain software on its own. Even if you are building a kit around multiple Mandalas, I would still recommend using the virtual brain. And furthermore if you have other controllers or midi drumpads you want to incorporate, the virtual brain can handle them too.

If you are ambitious in the search for your sound and choose to delve deeper into the Mandala's possibilities unhindered by the virtual brain, I say absolutely you should go for it. You're guaranteed to learn a lot about the inner workings of your program and the time you spend customizing and perfecting will for sure pay off. The Mandala can control nearly any parameter, effect, and instrument of your DAW. It's up to your imagination to decide.

[Allez]

Originally Posted by JBonham

It would work with Native Instrument's Battery 3 software. The regular virtual brain sound library can be imported and Synesthesia also provides an additional free collection of presets designed specifically to be used with Battery 3. Mandala - The All New USB Mandala Drum

This too. The Synesthesia presets collection for Battery 3 gives you many sounds and pad presets right out of the box, fully integrated into Battery.

[Zalman]

hmmm I hadn't heard of this Mandala drum before. I noticed in one of the videos in the original post, it is controlled by what looks like an all-in-one box. But the version you reviewed runs through a computer. I think I'd rather have the dedicated box on stage rather than my laptop.

[JBonham]

Originally Posted by Zalman

hmmm I hadn't heard of this Mandala drum before. I noticed in one of the videos in the original post, it is controlled by what looks like an all-in-one box. But the version you reviewed runs through a computer. I think I'd rather have the dedicated box on stage rather than my laptop.

Why is this? My laptop is a few years old but handles the virtual brain and 3 mandalas perfectly. I also like not having to spend an additional few hundred dollars for a dedicated box if my laptop can do the same thing for free.

[Zalman]

Originally Posted by JBonham

Why is this? My laptop is a few years old but handles the virtual brain and 3 mandalas perfectly. I also like not having to spend an additional few hundred dollars for a dedicated box if my laptop can do the same thing for free.

Mainly it's a reliability thing. I've had computer based things crap out on me before and I'd rather not repeat the experience

That was a long time ago though, and I'm sure things have improved since then. But for me, reliability is the most important thing and knowing that my equipment will work regardless of audio driver issues or just windows problems in general, is worth that extra money to me.

[JBonham]

Originally Posted by Zalman

Mainly it's a reliability thing. I've had computer based things crap out on me before and I'd rather not repeat the experience

That was a long time ago though, and I'm sure things have improved since then. But for me, reliability is the most important thing and knowing that my equipment will work regardless of audio driver issues or just windows problems in general, is worth that extra money to me.

Good point. Reliability is the most important thing. The ease of use and control that comes with a software-based system means little unless you have confidence the product will work everytime when you need it to. So far, I'm extremely happy with the stability of the mandalas and the virtual brain, and I'd have no reservations about using them live.

[Allez]

Originally Posted by JBonham

Good point. Reliability is the most important thing. The ease of use and control that comes with a software-based system means little unless you have confidence the product will work everytime when you need it to. So far, I'm extremely happy with the stability of the mandalas and the virtual brain, and I'd have no reservations about using them live.

As a follow up, I've had my Mandala for about a month and a half now, using it almost every day, and the reliability rating gets a solid 5/5

[Accurate]

Just wondering, have any of you guys had any luck powering 3+ Mandalas using a powered USB hub? I tried two different hubs and had tons of drop out/underpowering issues. Any hubs that you would recommend?

Also, some Mandala/MIDI trigger craziness for you:

[biggator6]

You may want to email them and ask. I saw Tool a few nights ago, and Danny has a BUNCH of them on his kit.. not sure how they're powered.

[Accurate]

Here is part of the answer they gave me:

"For the v2.0, using USB ports directly on your computer is the best practice"

It seems that the v2.9 firmware may work better, but they really don't confirm this. Also, I didn't get any confirmation that a powered hub would work with 3+ drums.

Are any of you have luck with a powered hub and 3+ pads?

I'm using a new MacBook Pro so I'm stuck with 2 usb ports...

[Ak_Rev]

Originally Posted by Accurate

Are any of you have luck with a powered hub and 3+ pads?

I'm using the Belkin Hi-Speed USB 2.0 4-Port Hub (F5U234) for 2 Mandalay mk2.9, as well as Bose Companion speakers and a mouse with no issues.