Ken Scott - Cold Turkey

[Naren]

Ken Scott's work seems to be quite the theme around here, and, being a big fan, I'd like to bring up Lennon's Cold Turkey which was engineered by Mr. Scott.

Cold Turkey is a hell of an unusual record for 1969:
Dry as hell, compressed drums and bass, mixed way up front, and no hihat. More bass than on most records of the time (although it reminds me a little of the Free/Paul Rodgers records that were out at about the same time).
Plenty of reverb on vocals and lead guitar but not much decay, more of a huge "ambience."
Some drenched lead guitar fills come later in the song - they are set up so nicely with the overall dryness of the mix.
Backwards audio hijinks at the tail of the record.
A very sparse, 3-man-band arrangement, but with a big sound. Everything is up front in its own spectrum.

Interesting that Clapton and Alan White played on it. Oddly, it sounds more like Lennon's guitar playing than Clapton's.
George Marino mastered the new Cd version I have - it has a lot of high end compared to the vinyl, but my vinyl is decades old. I prefer the vinyl! Also, on the CD, I hear this weird little high note (guitar harmonic?) accompanying most vocal lines which I can not hear on the vinyl.
Only one little quibble: wish the lead vocal had not been double tracked (and I could say that for a lot of the early Beatles records as well).

I submit it as an unusual, relatively forgotten gem in the vast Ken Scott discography.

If Ken Scott is reading (hey, I'm feeling lucky), I'd love to know who was responsible for this unusual mix. Did Lennon as producer give you vague indications as to what he wanted which you interpreted your own way, or was he specific as to technique? Were you aware that you were making an unusual record or did it just "fit in" with the "psychedelia" of the times? Anything else you can add, anecdotal or otherwise, about the session?

I know it was a long time ago.

BTW (If you are reading), your scope as engineer is really remarkable. I can kind of put the Beatles and Bowie into the same art rock bag, but you also did many of my other favorite records such as Birds of Fire (wow!) and Spectrum. My nine year old son's fave CD right now is Spectrum - loves those drums!

And when are YOU going to write a book? I'd like to read that.

Thanks and best wishes!

-Naren

[JP11]

Oh man, I was going to bring up this song (I swear, I'm not just saying that)...but I thought maybe we were getting a little out of hand....

But this song does seem ahead of it's time with it's raw bass and drums sound....and the way the cymbals have been left out, or gated out or something...they kind of peak in in a couple spots...

What's interesting is how different it is than the demos of this song, and the way he played it live, too, I think...those sound more like that late 60s groovy sound going back and forth between 2 chords....

also interesting...co-produced by Phil Spector...this along with the Plastic Ono Band record...not your typical Phil Spector wall of sound...

[Ken_Scott]

If I remember correctly I recorded it and then Phil McDonald mixed it at Abbey Road. Also, assuming my brain isn't completely playing tricks on me, Mr Spector wasn't there for the recording. This was probably recorded during my "I hate cymbals, get rid of the nasty things" period and so that could be why there isn't much of them on the record. That's about it for now. I'll see if I can come up with anything else over the next few days.

Cheers

[borau]

Thanks, Ken,

Love that song, and it's one of the reasons my whole life is a "I hate cymbals, get rid of the nasty things" period.

Is it really as heavily compressed as i t might sound like, or was the tape hit that hard, or was it simply played with that kind of dynamic?

[RadioMoo]

Originally Posted by borau

Thanks, Ken,

Love that song, and it's one of the reasons my whole life is a "I hate cymbals, get rid of the nasty things" period.

Is it really as heavily compressed as i t might sound like, or was the tape hit that hard, or was it simply played with that kind of dynamic?

While we're at it, I'd like to know about the "trembling" sound in the vocal and the bass line; it really helps give the right feel (heroin withdrawl). Sounds like maybe two - or more - compressors "fighting" each other. (?)

[JP11]

Originally Posted by RadioMoo

While we're at it, I'd like to know about the "trembling" sound in the vocal and the bass line; it really helps give the right feel (heroin withdrawl). Sounds like maybe two - or more - compressors "fighting" each other. (?)

I'm pretty sure that trembling sound is simply John Lennon singing that way...he does it in the demos even more...sounds like a Yoko influence to me. And the primal scream thing he was into...

[JP11]

Originally Posted by Ken_Scott

If I remember correctly I recorded it and then Phil McDonald mixed it at Abbey Road. Also, assuming my brain isn't completely playing tricks on me, Mr Spector wasn't there for the recording. This was probably recorded during my "I hate cymbals, get rid of the nasty things" period and so that could be why there isn't much of them on the record. That's about it for now. I'll see if I can come up with anything else over the next few days.

Cheers

Hmmm, that's interesting about Phil Spector...he's listed as co-producer...

not to sidetrack, but I was looking in the Lewisohn recording book...your first session as 1st engineer was Fool On The Hill, and then I Am The Walrus....man,
two absolute masterpieces...the drums on Walrus alone, talk about influential...and Lennon's fantastic vocal on that..a bit overdriven, is that the preamp being overdriven?

So many great songs and recordings...it's overwhelming!!

[Kiwiburger]

I've often wondered if that trembly vocal harmony thing was an early digital pitch shifter. It's certainly an unusual effect that well suits the song.

Edit: i've just had listen to the Lennon Legend DVD. It sounds to me like a pitch shifter set to a major third. The melody uses a minor third, so it's a very cool harmony. I also imagine that the guitar lick is using the same pitch shifter effect.

It reminds me of a very early Ibanez pitch shifter pedal, that you set to an interval and that was all it could do. It had a bad wobble, like primitive pitch shifters do. I didn't buy one at the time, because it seemed too limited (bought the Analog Delay instead). But I imagine this technogy would have been available a few years before.

Of course it could be done with tape editing - it's rather like the Paperback Writer effect.

Or it could just be Lennon harmonising, and a fast tremelo.

My money is on the pitch shifter - I'd love to know if Ken remembers what was used.

Edit: I also hear the effect on a unison and a fifth, so maybe it's a real harmony with the modulation added.

[Ken_Scott]

Originally Posted by JP11

not to sidetrack, but I was looking in the Lewisohn recording book...your first session as 1st engineer was Fool On The Hill, and then I Am The Walrus....man,
two absolute masterpieces...the drums on Walrus alone, talk about influential...and Lennon's fantastic vocal on that..a bit overdriven, is that the preamp being overdriven?

So many great songs and recordings...it's overwhelming!!

You may need glasses. According to both my memory and the Lewisohn book my first session as a 1st engineer was an attempted remake of "Your Mother Should Know". A complete write off because I had no idea what the hell I was doing.

"Fool". Yes I have to take full responsibilty for that. "Walrus" I only did some overdubs and kind of the stereo mix. Geoff E did the track (including drums) and vocal. I do happen to know that the vocal effect was an overdriven Fairchild.

Cheers

[JP11]

Whoops...remind me to fire my ghost poster...

there's that quote in the book from you and everything....

I've got so much Beatles, Elton, Lennon, Bowie, Ken Scott stuff floating around in my head I can't keep it all straight...

[joelpatterson]

Now, "Fool on the Hill"... you probably did that outside, on the rooftop, for the bird noises?

[Kiwiburger]

tutt

[JP11]

Regarding that vocal effect, check out this clip from a demo...should be okay, I hope, to post since it's just a short little snip, right? For educational purposes and all....

EDIT: plus a snip from another demo with harmony....

[JP11]

Originally Posted by Ken_Scott

A complete write off because I had no idea what the hell I was doing.....

"Fool". Yes I have to take full responsibilty for that.

You learn fast, btw ...pretty awesome 9 days later.

[Kiwiburger]

Thanks for those demo clips - I see what you mean. I'm still not sure he sung it that way. It sounds like a tape vibrato ... if that was recorded in the studio they probably had an oscillator. I hear tape vibrato effects on a lot of Beatles stuff.

I also understand that some of the wobbly tape stuff was down by inserting stuff into the reel to make it wobbly. And I also understand that some of the tape vibrato was done by manually moving a varispeed oscillator knob. I read somewhere about the engineer having to manually wobble Eric Claptons solo on While my guitar gently weeps.

On the demo, there is a big tape slow down on the whole mix. Maybe, just maybe, the engineer had his hand on a varispeed knob for manually riding the vibrato, and maybe that was a slip of the hand?

[RadioMoo]

Originally Posted by Kiwiburger

I also understand that some of the wobbly tape stuff was down by inserting stuff into the reel to make it wobbly. And I also understand that some of the tape vibrato was done by manually moving a varispeed oscillator knob. I read somewhere about the engineer having to manually wobble Eric Claptons solo on While my guitar gently weeps.

OK, I should have thought of it, because I was aware that they would put tape (not recording tape) around the pinch roller which would cause the audio to wobble.

[Ken_Scott]

Originally Posted by joelpatterson

Now, "Fool on the Hill"... you probably did that outside, on the rooftop, for the bird noises?

Unfortunately I don't remember and so I've put a call in to Howard Massey to find out. I'll let you know when I hear back.

Originally Posted by Kiwiburger

I read somewhere about the engineer having to manually wobble Eric Claptons solo on While my guitar gently weeps.

"Recording The Beatles" will explain all of this.

[skip bitmin]

Originally Posted by Ken_Scott

You may need glasses. According to both my memory and the Lewisohn book my first session as a 1st engineer was an attempted remake of "Your Mother Should Know". A complete write off because I had no idea what the hell I was doing.

"Fool". Yes I have to take full responsibilty for that. "Walrus" I only did some overdubs and kind of the stereo mix. Geoff E did the track (including drums) and vocal. I do happen to know that the vocal effect was an overdriven Fairchild.

Cheers

I never dreamed that I would be getting first hand info like this (fairchild over driven). Thanks for being on this forum.

[JP11]

Originally Posted by Kiwiburger

Thanks for those demo clips - I see what you mean. I'm still not sure he sung it that way. It sounds like a tape vibrato ... if that was recorded in the studio they probably had an oscillator. I hear tape vibrato effects on a lot of Beatles stuff.

Really? Hmmm....well I don't know...sure seems like it was just him to me, but I dunno...

[NeveMaster]

[QUOTE=Ken_Scott]Unfortunately I don't remember and so I've put a call in to Howard Massey to find out. I'll let you know when I hear back.



Hey ken just saw a peek of you on the anthology like 10 minutes ago. You look the same? how come all of us other engineers age so much faster. Like in dog years i swear.

[Steve G]

Originally Posted by Ken_Scott

I do happen to know that the vocal effect was an overdriven Fairchild.

Cheers

Can't do that with a plug in!!! Three cheers for analog compression.

Steve

[mtstudios@charter]

Originally Posted by Ken_Scott

If I remember correctly I recorded it and then Phil McDonald mixed it at Abbey Road. Also, assuming my brain isn't completely playing tricks on me, Mr Spector wasn't there for the recording. This was probably recorded during my "I hate cymbals, get rid of the nasty things" period and so that could be why there isn't much of them on the record. That's about it for now. I'll see if I can come up with anything else over the next few days.

Cheers

I saw an interview you had done at Abbey Road, where you tried to match individual tracks one by one in the digital world to your old analog tracks on a David Bowie Record. You made the interesting conclusion that accumulation of digital was harsh. If that isn't proof in the pudding.

www.bluethumbproductions.com