If you had 5,000 dollars to spend....

[bkspitfire]

Lets say you've got 5,000 dollars to spend on gear, you are starting from scratch (minus a good running computer you already have) and you want to make a project studio for recording drums, guitars, vocals, and bass. You need to buy converters, preamps, mics, monitors etc.

What do you buy?

This should be interesting.

Give me your best ideas!


EDIT:

Maybe i should clarify a bit that I already also have my DAW, Mackie 400f, at 4040, and some sm 58s. can someone help me out with monitors, preamps, possibly a different converter box (fireface?) i'll probably get a couple RNC's, and was thinking the KRK V6 v2's? Guide me to the low end project studio light....

[seaneldon]

BRUTAL FACT: if you need all of that stuff (everything but a computer), $5000 will get you close to nothing.

BEING NICE: you could probably get a bunch of budget stuff. a/d/a converter or interface for a grand, speakers for a little less, VERY basic mic collection with cables and stands, and a preamp or two. we're talking way basic though.

[bkspitfire]

Originally Posted by seaneldon

BRUTAL FACT: if you need all of that stuff (everything but a computer), $5000 will get you close to nothing.

BEING NICE: you could probably get a bunch of budget stuff. a/d/a converter or interface for a grand, speakers for a little less, VERY basic mic collection with cables and stands, and a preamp or two. we're talking way basic though.

Not sure if you're really trying to help or are just picking on poor people?

[JP11]

I don't know, budget is the way to go if you can't go top dollar...it's the midline that's a ripoff...especially if it's all about talent...

how about that Onyx 800R $1000 8 preamps and converters...
Yamaha monitors MSP5a $500
Shure Kick and 3 sm57s $500
Peluso 22 47 $1300
Tracktion (probably comes free with the Onyx) $150

that's $3300....so $1700 left....so $1000 for misc....cables, stands, maybe a couple more mics, some low priced overheads or something, maybe a couple RNCs, a direct box for the bass...$700 for room treatment, how much to do it yourself with those ready traps?

[KurtR]

Well what do yo want to record?

[bkspitfire]

Originally Posted by KurtR

Well what do yo want to record?

Well, i'll be recording pretty much rock stuff, but am open to jazz, blues etc if need be.

Maybe i should clarify a bit that I already also have my DAW, Mackie 400f, at 4040, and some sm 58s. can someone help me out with monitors, preamps, possibly a different converter box (fireface?) i'll probably get a couple RNC's, and was thinking the KRK V6 v2's? Guide me to the low end project studio light....

[Jonboy79]

Do a search and read the thousands of answers already given on this subject.

[bkspitfire]

Originally Posted by Jonboy79

Do a search and read the thousands of answers already given on this subject.

Oh i've searched plenty, was just trying to carry on conversation here.

[bkspitfire]

Last time i checked forums were about discussion, if all I wanted to do was read then i'd just check out audio magazines and read retailers websites.....

Can anyone else lend a hand with insight?

[JP11]

Originally Posted by bkspitfire

Can anyone else lend a hand with insight?

I tried...no good?

[joelpatterson]

Originally Posted by JP11

I tried...no good?

Way too technical.

[KurtR]

What space do you have to work with and how is it acoustically?

[allencollins]

5k is more than enough to get a good product. There have been gold albums recorded with less than 5k worth of gear.

[StefanColson]

Hmm... You said you already had software, so let's cover the mics/pres/converters/monitors bases:

Seventh Circle Audio Kit w/ 4 C84, 2 A12, 2 N72 - $2200
Audio Technica AT4060 - $750
(2) Audio Technica AT4047 - $800
(2) Shure SM57 - $160
Shure Beta 52 - $125
(2) MXL 603s - $120
Shinybox 46 - $150
RME Multiface II - $750

That's $5k right there. Now let's assume that you can save up for a few more months and come up with a little more money:

Dynaudio BM5As - $800
RNC and RNLA - $400
Behringer Headphone amp and 4 pairs of Moreme headphones - $180
9 Mic stands and cables - $200
Various cabling for the rest of the gear - $100
LD Dynamic (SM7, RE20, 421, M88, etc) - $250


That brings us to about 7k total, for a very nice rig. If you can't make great recordings with that setup, then you can't make great recordings at all. Seriously, with that gear you'll be encroaching on the high end, and everything you have will stand the test of time (except maybe the RME when you ditch it for something like an Apogee or a Lavry if you strike it rich). You'll be set for any rock session that comes your way:

Drums:
Kick - Beta 52
Snare - SM57
Overheads - AT4047s (I consistently pick these things over much more expensive mics for this duty)
Rack Toms - MXL 603s (surprisingly great in this role)
Floor Tom - LD Dynamic
Room mic - Shinybox or AT4060

Electric Gtrs:
a few choices here:
SM57
LD Dynamic
Shinybox

Bass:
Direct out of the players amp head
LD Dynamic
Beta 52

Acoustic Gtrs:
AT4047s (respectable here)
AT4060 (sweet in this application)
MXL 603s

Vox:
AT4060 (awesome vocal mic that suits a wider range of singers than most)
AT4047 (great on some singers)
LD Dynamic
SM57 (sometimes it's just what the doctor ordered)

Plus for pre's you'd have 2 Neveish channels, 2 APIish channels, and 4 super clean Milleniaish channels.

The Dynaudio monitors are very respectable, and they are leagues above anything else you'll find for under a grand (and will hold their own against anything that costs less than $2k).

Moreme headphones and the Behringer amp will get the job done.

The RNC and RNLA and great, un-offensive compressors.

The RME converters are solid (a few steps above any of the prosumer crap, and about as good as you'll find without spending 2-3 times as much).

It's pretty amazing what 7k in gear is actually capable of...

[Joel DuBay]

Originally Posted by KurtR

What space do you have to work with and how is it acoustically?

Make sure you have a good sounding room mate. It WILL save you money in the long run. I am not telling you to buy our products, just get something that will work well. Anything. OC 703 or Rock Wool and some fabric and you are set.

I just treated a top engineers room with a minimal amount of traps, and he said it was the best thing he had ever done.

In any case, get something that works and is proven. There are lots of companies out there with inexpensive products that will work well, and you would be very smart to get something if your room is not already treated or acoustically sound. And, you can do so for a lot less money than you think.

Heck, why not WIN a room FULL of bass traps for FREE!


Sign up here to win 12 FREE bass traps including shipping:

http://gearslutz.com/board/showthread.php3?t=65879


Good luck !!

~ Joel

[PlugHead]

FWIW,

Don't take it personally: these guys are merely saying this type of topic has been discussed to death. Really. If you think how many times some of us have typed out the same response to good intentioned people like yourself, you might understand the benefit of using the search button.

1) Treat your room. Do some research, and find out where the holes and resonances are. Start here, and make your life easy. It won't be dirt cheap, but will help immensely in the long run... cost - approx.$500-$1000

2) Monitors: 'good' monitors are very subjective. However, they are the bottom line. I personally have never liked KRK's, but - monitors are a personal thing. I would highly suggest taking ref. material into a fully stocked, and neutral sounding pro shop, and audition a whack of them - ones like Dynaudio BM5's or 6's, ADAM's, Event's, BlueSky (ProDesk or others), KRK's, Mackie's, and others that you think you'd like to hear. The absolute best way is to audition them in your own space, but ONLY IF YOU HAVE A GOOD LISTENING ENVIRONMENT. Other than that, you're working yourself backwards into a hole... cost $1000 - $2000

3) Mic(s) - you already have the very basics covered. Now I'd be looking for a pr. of small diaphragm condensers - Oktava 012's (@ $250 or so) and a large diaphragm like an Apex 460 tube mic w Dave Thomas mod ($325) and one of the various low-end ribbon's like the Apex 210/T-Bone/: ($200) - total - $775

4) converters: I personally would get something like a Kurzweil Rumour or Mangler, use the analog in's for it's conversion and have a good FX box - lord knows the verbs and FX inside the box suck, so having a dedicated FX unit that actually sounds good, and has some decent converters is a plus in my books. Unless you're willing to spend significant amounts more, I'd save until you're ready - there is nothing in your studio that will lose it's value quicker than digital gear like converters/mixers etc - keep those purchases to a minimum, or till you can justify the expense and pony up for the real deal... Rumour/Mangler for 2 channels of decent conversion - plus a great OB reverb unit - $400-$450

5) cabling and stands: spend a couple of hundred on good cables - Canare or Belden are good, I personally would steer away from Mogami as it's highly overrated, and seriously underperforms. Good cables to your monitoring, and to and from mics to preamps/converters are a good idea. SO are good mic stands - ones not made out of PLASTIC but STEEL. Cost - $500 - $750

Now - my math sez you're at $4900.00 using the high end of my estimates. I'm sure you'll find something to spend the $100 + on something - maybe an RNC, and if you spend a bit less on other thing's I'd consider a DAV BG-1, or Sytek for some pre's - I'd treat myself to if I got the rest of my gear list in order...

Hope this helps- good luck!

[Yetti]

Originally Posted by bkspitfire

Last time i checked forums were about discussion, if all I wanted to do was read then i'd just check out audio magazines and read retailers websites.....

Amen to that Brotha.

I think the best thing to do is try and buy gear that you can still keep, even as you continually keep upgrading.

I would consider a pair of Genelec 8040A as nearfield monitors, as you would keep them even when you eventually add some bigger monitors. ($2,000)
Since you already have a few mics, I would add 2 or 3 SM57's and a pair of condensers like 2 Shure SM81's. ($1,000)
I think that the room treatment suggestion is an important one... Auralex 2" and some corner traps work well...($1000)
I would get a great mic pre, like the Pacifica ($1700)
And now you are over budget like all of us...but at least you have "keeper" gear no matter what you add in the future.
Good luck Brotha!

[bkspitfire]

Originally Posted by JP11

I tried...no good?

No definitely helpful, thanks a lot! I went to bed shortly after and didn't get time to respond.

[bkspitfire]

Originally Posted by allencollins

5k is more than enough to get a good product. There have been gold albums recorded with less than 5k worth of gear.

Thats what I have seen, was just surprised by the first response that I should pretty much just hang it up and not even try with 5k.

[bkspitfire]

Originally Posted by joelpatterson

Way too technical.

[bkspitfire]

Originally Posted by StefanColson

Hmm... You said you already had software, so let's cover the mics/pres/converters/monitors bases:

Seventh Circle Audio Kit w/ 4 C84, 2 A12, 2 N72 - $2200
Audio Technica AT4060 - $750
(2) Audio Technica AT4047 - $800
(2) Shure SM57 - $160
Shure Beta 52 - $125
(2) MXL 603s - $120
Shinybox 46 - $150
RME Multiface II - $750

That's $5k right there. Now let's assume that you can save up for a few more months and come up with a little more money:

Dynaudio BM5As - $800
RNC and RNLA - $400
Behringer Headphone amp and 4 pairs of Moreme headphones - $180
9 Mic stands and cables - $200
Various cabling for the rest of the gear - $100
LD Dynamic (SM7, RE20, 421, M88, etc) - $250


That brings us to about 7k total, for a very nice rig. If you can't make great recordings with that setup, then you can't make great recordings at all. Seriously, with that gear you'll be encroaching on the high end, and everything you have will stand the test of time (except maybe the RME when you ditch it for something like an Apogee or a Lavry if you strike it rich). You'll be set for any rock session that comes your way:

Drums:
Kick - Beta 52
Snare - SM57
Overheads - AT4047s (I consistently pick these things over much more expensive mics for this duty)
Rack Toms - MXL 603s (surprisingly great in this role)
Floor Tom - LD Dynamic
Room mic - Shinybox or AT4060

Electric Gtrs:
a few choices here:
SM57
LD Dynamic
Shinybox

Bass:
Direct out of the players amp head
LD Dynamic
Beta 52

Acoustic Gtrs:
AT4047s (respectable here)
AT4060 (sweet in this application)
MXL 603s

Vox:
AT4060 (awesome vocal mic that suits a wider range of singers than most)
AT4047 (great on some singers)
LD Dynamic
SM57 (sometimes it's just what the doctor ordered)

Plus for pre's you'd have 2 Neveish channels, 2 APIish channels, and 4 super clean Milleniaish channels.

The Dynaudio monitors are very respectable, and they are leagues above anything else you'll find for under a grand (and will hold their own against anything that costs less than $2k).

Moreme headphones and the Behringer amp will get the job done.

The RNC and RNLA and great, un-offensive compressors.

The RME converters are solid (a few steps above any of the prosumer crap, and about as good as you'll find without spending 2-3 times as much).

It's pretty amazing what 7k in gear is actually capable of...

Lovely bit of information, thanks so much!

I've been looking into those SCA preamps, they look really nice for the money. Its helpful to see what combos of those pres people would choose

Theres so much info here it would take too long to comment on all of it, but its great. I'll have to go try each of those mics (a friend of mine works at a pro studio here) i'll check if he has some there perhaps.

I was thinking maybe more along the lines of the AKG D112 kick mic? Perhaps it would be better for rock because from what i've heard it seems to have a bit more natural attack?

Also, would you by chance have a few recording samples with that drum mic setup I could take a listen to?

Thanks again!

[bkspitfire]

Originally Posted by Joel DuBay

Make sure you have a good sounding room mate. It WILL save you money in the long run. I am not telling you to buy our products, just get something that will work well. Anything. OC 703 or Rock Wool and some fabric and you are set.

I just treated a top engineers room with a minimal amount of traps, and he said it was the best thing he had ever done.

In any case, get something that works and is proven. There are lots of companies out there with inexpensive products that will work well, and you would be very smart to get something if your room is not already treated or acoustically sound. And, you can do so for a lot less money than you think.

Heck, why not WIN a room FULL of bass traps for FREE!


Sign up here to win 12 FREE bass traps including shipping:

http://gearslutz.com/board/showthread.php3?t=65879


Good luck !!

~ Joel

Yes, room acoustics are a whole other beast indeed, thanks for the info.

[bkspitfire]

Originally Posted by PlugHead

FWIW,

Don't take it personally: these guys are merely saying this type of topic has been discussed to death. Really. If you think how many times some of us have typed out the same response to good intentioned people like yourself, you might understand the benefit of using the search button.

1) Treat your room. Do some research, and find out where the holes and resonances are. Start here, and make your life easy. It won't be dirt cheap, but will help immensely in the long run... cost - approx.$500-$1000

2) Monitors: 'good' monitors are very subjective. However, they are the bottom line. I personally have never liked KRK's, but - monitors are a personal thing. I would highly suggest taking ref. material into a fully stocked, and neutral sounding pro shop, and audition a whack of them - ones like Dynaudio BM5's or 6's, ADAM's, Event's, BlueSky (ProDesk or others), KRK's, Mackie's, and others that you think you'd like to hear. The absolute best way is to audition them in your own space, but ONLY IF YOU HAVE A GOOD LISTENING ENVIRONMENT. Other than that, you're working yourself backwards into a hole... cost $1000 - $2000

3) Mic(s) - you already have the very basics covered. Now I'd be looking for a pr. of small diaphragm condensers - Oktava 012's (@ $250 or so) and a large diaphragm like an Apex 460 tube mic w Dave Thomas mod ($325) and one of the various low-end ribbon's like the Apex 210/T-Bone/: ($200) - total - $775

4) converters: I personally would get something like a Kurzweil Rumour or Mangler, use the analog in's for it's conversion and have a good FX box - lord knows the verbs and FX inside the box suck, so having a dedicated FX unit that actually sounds good, and has some decent converters is a plus in my books. Unless you're willing to spend significant amounts more, I'd save until you're ready - there is nothing in your studio that will lose it's value quicker than digital gear like converters/mixers etc - keep those purchases to a minimum, or till you can justify the expense and pony up for the real deal... Rumour/Mangler for 2 channels of decent conversion - plus a great OB reverb unit - $400-$450

5) cabling and stands: spend a couple of hundred on good cables - Canare or Belden are good, I personally would steer away from Mogami as it's highly overrated, and seriously underperforms. Good cables to your monitoring, and to and from mics to preamps/converters are a good idea. SO are good mic stands - ones not made out of PLASTIC but STEEL. Cost - $500 - $750

Now - my math sez you're at $4900.00 using the high end of my estimates. I'm sure you'll find something to spend the $100 + on something - maybe an RNC, and if you spend a bit less on other thing's I'd consider a DAV BG-1, or Sytek for some pre's - I'd treat myself to if I got the rest of my gear list in order...

Hope this helps- good luck!

Yes, I totally understand how this subject has been discussed to death, believe me i've read hundreds of posts with the search button before I started this thread. Its just enjoyable to get live responses from time to time, because sometimes you get some new bits of info from that one or two guys who post seldom (there are always a few out there).

You're so right about the money lost in digital equipment (I ran a computer business for a bit, same thing on computer hardware), and was thinking about maybe splurging a bit and just go for either a rosetta 800 or equivalent right away.

Once again very informative post, thanks so much!

[bkspitfire]

Originally Posted by Yetti

Amen to that Brotha.

I think the best thing to do is try and buy gear that you can still keep, even as you continually keep upgrading.

I would consider a pair of Genelec 8040A as nearfield monitors, as you would keep them even when you eventually add some bigger monitors. ($2,000)
Since you already have a few mics, I would add 2 or 3 SM57's and a pair of condensers like 2 Shure SM81's. ($1,000)
I think that the room treatment suggestion is an important one... Auralex 2" and some corner traps work well...($1000)
I would get a great mic pre, like the Pacifica ($1700)
And now you are over budget like all of us...but at least you have "keeper" gear no matter what you add in the future.
Good luck Brotha!

This has been my biggest question since I started looking into buying this gear, is wether to get enough stuff to actually be able record full projects, or to buy more expensive, have less and not be as capable in the beginning (in quantity i mean, not quality obviously).

Thanks for your input, great stuff.

[bkspitfire]

Originally Posted by KurtR

What space do you have to work with and how is it acoustically?

Well, thats my major drawback at the moment. I'll be moving back to the states in the next few months, and then will have to start looking for a place to record over there. Ideally i'd like to have two rooms, a small control room and one room for everything else. I'll definitely work with the acoustics, in my book its number one on my list along with good monitors (don't forget the lava lamps of course ).

[StefanColson]

When I get home tonight I'll post a clip of that drum mic setup in a great room, and a clip of that drum mic setup in a small, shitty room.

[bkspitfire]

Originally Posted by StefanColson

When I get home tonight I'll post a clip of that drum mic setup in a great room, and a clip of that drum mic setup in a small, shitty room.

Fantastic, thanks!

[Joel DuBay]

Originally Posted by bkspitfire

Well, thats my major drawback at the moment. I'll be moving back to the states in the next few months, and then will have to start looking for a place to record over there. Ideally i'd like to have two rooms, a small control room and one room for everything else. I'll definitely work with the acoustics, in my book its number one on my list along with good monitors (don't forget the lava lamps of course ).

You are very wise!


Good luck!

[lawrence_o]

Well with that limited budget, I'd be looking into the second hand market.

I'd be looking for Logic Express, an RME card (since it is praised here so much). In Logic you already have so many plug-ins.

I'd buy a HAIFENG SYT-2 Tube mic which costs about 500 euro and is as good as a Neumann tube mic. I'd also explore Haifeng's other mics including a few very good ribbon mics and others for merely 200 USD or less and very very near to neumann quality (after all, they are chinese clones of the real thing. CHeap means no research costs, just disassembling a mic and copy the parts. Okay, not respectful but you have no budget so you'll be very happy with them and probably never buy the real neumanns anyway.)

I'd try to get a good dual Mic Pre second hand, something from Universal Audio maybe or if you don't have that money, well, in my early days I recorded vocals with an SM57 on my Mackie 1402VLZ console because it had a phantom supply. Directly into my DAW into a waves compressor and voila, it was actually barable and workable.

Monitors? Hmm. Dangerous to buy them used. But anyway, I'd go for used and tried gennies or SA3As or KRK but anyway, good monitoring is probably the most important in your chain so I's be spending the biggest part of my money on this one.

If I still had some money left, I'd buy a good software collection bundle that basically covers it all. I'd say waves but their WUP strategy is not to be recommended for non-professional user. No disrespect intended, but you'll need updates very regular in this branche and with waves, you won't get any unless you cover yourself and that costs a lot of money so that would be less budget to buy something else, now.

Well voila. Have a look and try on these Haifeng mics. There really doesn't exist anything better for that price. They actually are cheap but sound big. I guy I know uses them instead of his real Nuemanns...

Hope it helped.
Cheers
Lawrence

[AdamJay]

buy used where you can!
pre's, mic's converters especially...


Metric Halo 2882 (used) - $900 8 decent pre's, killer converters for the $.
Genelec 8020A's - $770/pair
KRK RP10s Subwoofer - $269 (frontendaudio.com)
A-Designs Pacifica (money pre! - vox, guitar, OH, etc...) - $1800

Mics:
AT4041's $420/pair (8thstreet.com)
4 SM57's used $240
MXL V69 used $225
AKG D112 used $125

= $4749

spend the rest on stands and cables.