How the hell did Steely Dan get "Gaslighting Abbie" to sound so good?

[Matt Grondin]

I mean, honestly, I don't think my stuff is EVER going to sound that good and it's a bit discouraging, as well as inspiring at the same if that's possible. Not to mention that the whole "Two Against Nature" record is amazing, but that opening track has got to be one of the greatest recordings in recent history. That whole crew, from the players to the engineers, etc. is just A+.

[88fingerz]

I agree! Their next CD "Everything Must Go" is EVEN BETTER!!!!

Today I'll pick up the new D.Fagen CD "Morph the Cat" !

These are indeed productions to shoot for! Keep shooting!

[sedohr]

Morph the cat rocks!

It took me a few listenings though but after the break-in period I was hooked. The sound is awesome, drums and vocals are beautiful. Check it out! I find it way better than 2 against nature.

Kalli

[TanTan]

Originally Posted by sedohr

Morph the cat rocks!

It took me a few listenings though but after the break-in period I was hooked. The sound is awesome, drums and vocals are beautiful. Check it out! I find it way better than 2 against nature.

Kalli

+1

i'd really love to have any info about how this great album was recorded and mixed , another Steely thread is on

[Matt Grondin]

I haven't really listened to those new records all that much yet... I need to give them a shot. Thanks.

[thenoodle]

...."How the hell did Steely Dan get "Gaslighting Abbie" to sound so good?...
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It's a good thing we all have different tastes. I don't like Gaslighting Abbie on a number of levels.

For example, I just took a listen to the song again and then put it up against the mixes in Black Cow, Deacon Blues, Third World Man and a few other older things.

Not to compare songs...but to narrow down what I don't like about Abbie.

On Gaslighting Abbie, I HATE that snare. It is so boring after a minute or so. I don't know if it's a sample or real, but the very least they could've done is ride the faders or automate the level to get some dynamics ..at least a little bit...sometimes. As it is, it sounds like someone threw Protools into record, started a snare sample playing, and then left for lunch.

I also don't like the Strat or whatever it is. Its placement in the mix is....irritating.
In-your-face direct right with a ddl to the left. Nowhere nearly in the same ballpark of soundstage as the other instruments. Yuk. It sort of obliterates everything else. Very out of place. What's the deal..was it a showcase for Walter's playing or something? I'm all for creative mixing, but that guitar fits nowhere in the sound space at all...imo.

Donald normally doubles his own singing very well. This one seems pretty haphazard on those doubled parts.

So, there's my vote of using Gaslight Abbey as an example of how NOT to record and mix a song. f I pull up the older recordings, there is a far more pleasant sound stage with all the instruments, including guitars.

[Sounds Great]

I had the record and sold it. I love Steely Dan, especially The Royal Scam, my favorite. Toward the end they were already getting way to sterile sounding. Two Against Nature is extremely sterile as well as a horrible example of being slammed to death. Hurt my ears.

[Nowak]

yeah, i have to say, this album is possibly the worst example of a steely album, the drums are so edited they sound like they've been quantized and it also sounds like they've picked one good hit and used it over and over again.............very tedious indeed and extrememely dissapointing being a steely freak.......I'm yet to hear Fagan's latest but very much looking forward it.

[thermos]

Not all the drums on that album are edited. The subsequent albums have no drum editing whatsoever.

[Matt Grondin]

Ok, say what you will about the snare or the guitars, but that recording to me has an extreme amount of clarity. Almost too much for some folks tastes I guess. Sometimes I like to listen to music that has extremely clarity and other days I don't. Zeppelin records, and Bonham drum sounds in general, are some of my favorites but they lack the clarity of the Steely Dan stuff, but I love them both equally, some more depending on my mood. I like "Two Against Nature" and I would never sell a record, especially a Steely Dan record. Granted, the older songs are better and the older recordings are better in many ways too. I guess I should retitle the thread:

How the hell did Steely Dan get "Gaslighting Abbie" to have so much clarity?

Snare and guitar sounds, editing, etc. aside, you can't deny that it's well mixed, even if you don't prefer the tones of the source material. I can't get my mixes like that no matter how much I try.

[Sounds Great]

Originally Posted by dobby12

How the hell did Steely Dan get "Gaslighting Abbie" to have so much clarity?

I dunno about clarity. Older SD records give me chills (of pleasure) to listen to. This one gave me a headache.

[Matt Grondin]

Originally Posted by Sounds Great

I dunno about clarity. Older SD records give me chills (of pleasure) to listen to. This one gave me a headache.

YMMV.

[thejook]

(wakes up) "wjkh? huh? wha? Is that Steely Dan playing? Ugh jeez..."

[Matt Grondin]

Originally Posted by thejook

(wakes up) "wjkh? huh? wha? Is that Steely Dan playing? Ugh jeez..."

Uh, huh?

[TanTan]

Originally Posted by dobby12

Ok, say what you will about the snare or the guitars, but that recording to me has an extreme amount of clarity. Almost too much for some folks tastes I guess. Sometimes I like to listen to music that has extremely clarity and other days I don't. Zeppelin records, and Bonham drum sounds in general, are some of my favorites but they lack the clarity of the Steely Dan stuff, but I love them both equally, some more depending on my mood. I like "Two Against Nature" and I would never sell a record, especially a Steely Dan record. Granted, the older songs are better and the older recordings are better in many ways too. I guess I should retitle the thread:

How the hell did Steely Dan get "Gaslighting Abbie" to have so much clarity?

Snare and guitar sounds, editing, etc. aside, you can't deny that it's well mixed, even if you don't prefer the tones of the source material. I can't get my mixes like that no matter how much I try.

i think that an important part of the sound of "Morph The Cat" is the drum tuning , i guess it's Elliot Scheiner thing , in some of the songs the bass drum is playing the root note of the scale when the snare is one octave when the hat is 5 semitones below the snare and i can't remember for sure but on on some other songs the BD and SD is a quintet above the root note , so the drums are finding their right space in the mix very good harmonically and have the sound of close mics it's a big part of the clarity factor , in the Zeppelin style it sounds more like the producer has found the drums sweet spots and Bonham initial balance is the most important thing because it's more the room\overhead sound , totally different approach , most of the time the Steely style is my personal flavour ...
what a perfect mix this record have

[sedohr]

Originally Posted by TanTan

i think that an important part of the sound of "Morph The Cat" is the drum tuning , i guess it's Elliot Scheiner thing , in some of the songs the bass drum is playing the root note of the scale when the snare is one octave when the hat is 5 semitones below the snare and i can't remember for sure but on on some other songs the BD and SD is a quintet above the root note , so the drums are finding their right space in the mix very good harmonically and have the sound of close mics it's a big part of the clarity factor , in the Zeppelin style it sounds more like the producer has found the drums sweet spots and Bonham initial balance is the most important thing because it's more the room\overhead sound , totally different approach , most of the time the Steely style is my personal flavour ...
what a perfect mix this record have

How can you hear a certain pitch in the kick, snare and hihat??? Kick drum plays root, snare the octave and hihat 5 semitones below the snare?????
I only hear : thunk, kah, dathunk, kah....

[doorknocker]

Slightly OT: If you care about drums at all, check out the 'Classic Albums' DVD of 'Aja' and watch 'Pretty' Purdie talk about and demonstrate the 'Purdie Shuffle', it's hilarious and stunning at the same time.

I wasn't too impressed with 'TAN' at all, too much clarity for me. And missing the great session guitar players too.

[TanTan]

Originally Posted by sedohr

How can you hear a certain pitch in the kick, snare and hihat??? Kick drum plays root, snare the octave and hihat 5 semitones below the snare?????
I only hear : thunk, kah, dathunk, kah....

listen carefully to the overtones , drums are playing musical notes like any other instruments , and try to listen to the relativity between the drums , if the BD is on C for example , then the HH is on G and the snare is a higher C (if i remember the relative gap correctly , i'm not sure about it)

[TanTan]

Originally Posted by doorknocker

Slightly OT: If you care about drums at all, check out the 'Classic Albums' DVD of 'Aja' and watch 'Pretty' Purdie talk about and demonstrate the 'Purdie Shuffle', it's hilarious and stunning at the same time.

I wasn't too impressed with 'TAN' at all, too much clarity for me. And missing the great session guitar players too.

I've seen the DVD many times , my favourite drum track on this album is Aja by Steve Gadd and i was quite disapointed that he didn't intreview for the making of,
i have also expected that Elliot Scheiner will give intreview for the making of or at least be mentioned there and was quite disapointed he wasn't there , the 'Purdie Shuffle' (for Deacon Blues it was ?) is great

[TanTan]

Originally Posted by thejook

(wakes up) "wjkh? huh? wha? Is that Steely Dan playing? Ugh jeez..."

hi dude ! whassup ? you gotta hear some of the mixes on this CD , you might be bored with the music (i'm not) but the arrangements and mixes sounds fantastic

[thenoodle]

My take on the angle of "clarity" on Gaslight Abbie-

What I hear specifically on that song is...

Snare..has it's own frequency range
BD...has it's own frequency range
HH has it's own range
Irritatitng Strat..has it's own frequency range
Girl singers..their own range
Rhodes..it's own range
Fagen...his own range
brass..it's own range

By limiting the number of actual animals playing, there is space.
By sticking in only instruments that do not primarily occupy the same frequency ranges, there is space.
By limiting the degree of reverb, there is more definition pinpointing from each source.

Less stuff equals more space equals more clarity.

No everlapping eq of multiple instruments to clog up the spectrum.

No duplicate guitars

No pile of synthesizers competing with the Rhodes

No pile of split brass competing with the main brass track

No extreme delaying or panning out of specific parts (except that irritating guitar)

THAT'S where the space/clarity comes from.

Less=more.

I still hate that snare and guitar though.
And I don't like that song and I don't like that album.

But yeah..there is lots of "clarity".

Which would be Roger's doing.

[Matt Grondin]

I think "Brite Nightgown" off "Morph The Cat" is a kickass song

By the way, and I consider this especially true on the "Two Against Nature" video I have more so than the CD, I think Steely Dan sounded as groovy with Ricky Lawson on drums as they ever did with Purdie, Gadd, etc. I think Ricky Lawson is a brilliant drummer with an amazing groove. You can hear it so much more on the video and it's obviously not sampled or edited there (although the video editing sucks balls... there are times when he's playing the HH and they show him playing the ride... how dumb do you have to be?). I'm not too in this new Keith Carlock guy... I think he's a good drummer, but he doesn't do much for me personally.

[thejook]

Originally Posted by TanTan

hi dude ! whassup ? you gotta hear some of the mixes on this CD , you might be bored with the music (i'm not) but the arrangements and mixes sounds fantastic

Yeah, y'got me...I *am* the owner of a Steely Dan boxed set primarily for the quality of the engineering/mixing - so I am privy to their immesurable talent and that of their engineer(s)/producer(s). And "Peg" is a great song, that's for sure.

But I have to quote somebody that said something to me once about Steely Dan that always stuck with me (who is on this forum but shall remain nameless); their music sounds like (to *me*, key word) they all play with equally-sized sticks up their *sses.

I mean, my taste in music is just that, my own, but for what it's worth I'd much rather hear a whole lot of badly engineered records that rock than pristine Steely Dan.

Then again, no one asked my opinion. My apologies.

[KurtR]

Originally Posted by doorknocker

Slightly OT: If you care about drums at all, check out the 'Classic Albums' DVD of 'Aja' and watch 'Pretty' Purdie talk about and demonstrate the 'Purdie Shuffle', it's hilarious and stunning at the same time.

I wasn't too impressed with 'TAN' at all, too much clarity for me. And missing the great session guitar players too.

http://drummerworld.com/drummers/Bernard_Purdie.html

[TanTan]

Originally Posted by thejook

Yeah, y'got me...I *am* the owner of a Steely Dan boxed set primarily for the quality of the engineering/mixing - so I am privy to their immesurable talent and that of their engineer(s)/producer(s). And "Peg" is a great song, that's for sure.

ok but Morph The Cat is not included in this box and that's the album i was talking about

[Open Sky]

I have to chime in on this old thread just to say that the original question posed is one I've asked myself many times. It's a technically astounding recording, IMO. The clarity of it is INCREDIBLE! And I like the record to boot. Yes, I just called it a record...

[Matt Grondin]

Originally Posted by Open Sky

I have to chime in on this old thread just to say that the original question posed is one I've asked myself many times. It's a technically astounding recording, IMO. The clarity of it is INCREDIBLE! And I like the record to boot. Yes, I just called it a record...

Yeah, that's what I'm saying... forget what you think about the tones of the record, like the snare and all that. I just think the overall sound is very impressive with alot of clarity as well.

BTW, I'm revising my post above about Keith Carlock... upon further listening, he does sound pretty kickass. Very nice groove.

[vernier]

Hi tuned snare (way high)

dry room

doubling on vocal (kinda smeared, maybe tweaked Eventide)

funky bass, gated possibly

tweaked eq (active and electronic sounding).

[GYMusic]

I read this thread in April. Funny how it's popped up again. Pull "Gaslighting Abbie" into an editor. Notice how it appears to be hard limited. Possible clipped samples... yet the max RMS is around -7.5 dB. Also, get rid of the center channel and listen to the resultant L/R as it reveals that each instrument and vocals have their own personal reverb/delay/space (or whatever you would like to call it).

[desol]

Originally Posted by vernier

Hi tuned snare (way high)

dry room

doubling on vocal (kinda smeared, maybe tweaked Eventide)

funky bass, gated possibly

tweaked eq (active and electronic sounding).

Not to mention a Kick ass board.

A Kick ass tape machine.

Kick ass outboard.

Kick ass Mics.

And someone who knows how to get the BEST out of ALL of it.