Hammond M3 organ problems....
FunkFaker
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#1
7th April 2006
Old 7th April 2006
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Hammond M3 organ problems....

Hello fellow Slutz,

I just picked up a hammond M3 today, it worked fine at the owner's house, but once I got it to the studio, no dice.

When I push the volume pedal to it's loudest point, I can hit a key and hear a hum and/or click, but nothing else. Tube all seem to glow, although they look in rough shape.

I opened the area where the oil goes, and don't see anything moving when I stirke a key. (there is also some borken glass in this area? but it doesn't look like it's from anywhere in the organ, any clue?)

Any advice?

help!?
FunkFaker
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#2
7th April 2006
Old 7th April 2006
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update.

I got it started just now.

I held start, let the motor rev, but it squeals like a mad man. I can now hear notes with the volume pedal up, but how do I get rid of that motor squeal?

#3
7th April 2006
Old 7th April 2006
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aevan's Avatar
 

Does it work when you only have the volume pedal depressed half way? Could be a bad pot in the pedal, or maybe it just needs a clean. Mine does a similar thing when you switch the leslie speed sometimes. Needs a service badly. The broken glass - is it anywhere near the tubes? Could be left over from a broken tube - I'd vacuum it all out.
#4
7th April 2006
Old 7th April 2006
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Oil the bearings in the top and bottom of the leslie, if you have a 147 like mine. Check the belt tension too, but it sounds like a bearing. If it hasen't been used regularly it may be that the bearing grease needs to loosen up a bit as it goes thick if it sits for a long time. Good luck. I like to come in late at night when everyone's gone and play mine real loud. Phantom of the opera stuff mwa ha ha ha.
FunkFaker
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#5
7th April 2006
Old 7th April 2006
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thanks aevan!

no leslie, just the M3 making noise. the broken glass appears to be more like mirror glass (can see reflection) no broken tubes.

I'm wondering if it just needs to be oiled? From the sound of the motor? I don't think any of the owners maintained it. I'm in the process of cleaning the dust and glass out now.

any more ideas? or should i just get some oil asap?
#6
7th April 2006
Old 7th April 2006
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I just had a look at the M3 - niiiice, apparently they called it Cinderella when it was first made. I see it has no leslie, so forget what I said about the belts and stuff. So the squeeking is from the motor that drives the tonewheels? Is there a hole somewhere to put oil into the bearings and shaft? The idea about the grease becoming coagulated still applies. There is a place called www.speakeasyvintagemusic.com worth checking out, they have lots of vintage keys info. Andy there is a real helpful guy too.
The mirror glass - some tubes have a mirror like finish on the top, so I was thinking maybe it's leftover from a tube that broke and they didn't clean it up properly when they replaced it. That or a horrible disco ball accident.
Did this one come from the woman who's husband had had it since the 60's?
#7
7th April 2006
Old 7th April 2006
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If you had a hard time starting it up and its squealing then I would oil it. If you don't have any oil you can try:

www.goffprof.com
http://theatreorgans.com/hammond/faq..._Suppliers.htm
http://www.speakeasyvintagemusic.com/repairs.htm

If nothing else, a call to one of them might help lead you to the source of your problem. For what its worth my M-3 that I don't really use any more since I bought my B-3 was seized up from lack of use. A can of wd-40 and about 3 hours of cranking the motor and it fired up. Always keep it oiled if you can. The oil is cheap. Replacing the tonewheel generator is not.....

Michael Greene
FunkFaker
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#8
7th April 2006
Old 7th April 2006
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Thanks for the resources!

Investigations begin again, tomorrow!

Thanks again all!

tommy
#9
7th April 2006
Old 7th April 2006
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Kingtone's Avatar
 

this maybe a silly question for you...
but are you starting it up correctly?
Flick the Start switch for 10 seconds or so, then hit the run switch... let it go for a bit.. then turn the start switch off again...
#10
7th April 2006
Old 7th April 2006
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I have an M3 too! Oil it with Hammond oil ASAP. This is really important for the motor and also for the tone wheels. Mine had some issues when I first got it but I have been oiling it and the problems have stopped. Also, use some WD40 to go after the loud squeal. You are supposed to always use Hammond Oil, but if you have a really bad problem, a squirt of WD40 will help solve the problem quick.
Good Luck. These organs are really cool and worth every bit of effort to maintain.
Jeff
FunkFaker
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#11
7th April 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingtone
this maybe a silly question for you...
but are you starting it up correctly?
Flick the Start switch for 10 seconds or so, then hit the run switch... let it go for a bit.. then turn the start switch off again...

Thanks Kingtone, I have been starting it correctly. The motor still squeals quite badly. I've ordered some oil, hopefully will be here soon!

Thanks,
Tommy
FunkFaker
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#12
7th April 2006
Old 7th April 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff deff
I have an M3 too! Oil it with Hammond oil ASAP. This is really important for the motor and also for the tone wheels. Mine had some issues when I first got it but I have been oiling it and the problems have stopped. Also, use some WD40 to go after the loud squeal. You are supposed to always use Hammond Oil, but if you have a really bad problem, a squirt of WD40 will help solve the problem quick.
Good Luck. These organs are really cool and worth every bit of effort to maintain.
Jeff
Hi jeff deff,

where should I put the WD40? not in the same place as the oil, right?

thanks,

tommy
#13
8th April 2006
Old 8th April 2006
  #13
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Here are a couple of ideas that have worked for me :

take every tube out (carefully, when the organ is unplugged) one at a time, squirt Caig DeOxit into the tube socket, put the tube back in and move it up and down and around...smile while you're doing it, it makes a difference.

Squirt DeOxit onto the starter motor and anything else that looks like it moves. This dramatically "reconditioned" my A100 a few months ago. Plus it's a whole lot of fun spraying that stuff around.

Have a look for any obviously blown tubes. Try swapping similar tubes in to see if that makes a difference.

The main thing about the oil is that it must be a very light one : ie not gluggy.
I have used singer sewing machine oil in the past.

ps. don't electrocute yourself to death
#14
8th April 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3octaves&a5th
ps. don't electrocute yourself to death
this may sound obvious... but its good advice... cos even if you hammond is unplugged... sometimes there is still enough charge in the motor caps to give you a good ol jolt if you arent careful,. a friend of mine got a nasty one once.

best to leave the hammond unplugged for a little while before poking around inside if you dont know what you are doing.
FunkFaker
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#15
8th April 2006
Old 8th April 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingtone
sometimes there is still enough charge in the motor caps to give you a good ol jolt if you arent careful,. a friend of mine got a nasty one once.

best to leave the hammond unplugged for a little while before poking around inside if you dont know what you are doing.

Thanks for looking out!

Isn't there a way to get the charge out of the caps, to make sure you don't spark yourself up? stike stike
#16
8th April 2006
Old 8th April 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FunkFaker
Hi jeff deff,

where should I put the WD40? not in the same place as the oil, right?

thanks,

tommy
He's saying to spray it on the start motor, I think. Sure, it's a quick fix, but don't use WD40 anywhere on that thing. It's about the worst thing you could put in there. It will gum it up down the road.

Just wait for your Hammond oil to show up and fill the 3 reservoirs. Let the oil drain into the guts, and refill them all 2 more times. Do that first, then see if it solves your problems. Most times it will make the problem go away.
#17
8th April 2006
Old 8th April 2006
  #17
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In relation to discharging the capacitors, I always hold down a chord then switch off the organ. Keep holding the notes until all sound dies away.

Any altered dominant chord will do.

Be warned that capacitors can 'reform' their charge, so always act as if it is live.


I certainly would recommend against reckless application of WD40.


Sometimes a thread that leads from the oil reservoir to a bearing can break also.
If this is the case, a direct application of oil may be necessary.
BVB
#18
8th April 2006
Old 8th April 2006
  #18
BVB
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Did you turned loose the (transport) screws under the tone generator ?

Greets

Paul
#19
8th April 2006
Old 8th April 2006
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goldphinga's Avatar
 

i once stuck my finger in the service lamp holder in my b3 and got a nasty suprise. if i had hair it would have been standing quite high off my head. please be careful.


FunkFaker
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#20
8th April 2006
Old 8th April 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BVB
Did you turned loose the (transport) screws under the tone generator ?

Greets

Paul

I'm not sure what you mean, Paul. Do you mean the entire spring supported area including the motor? If so, there are no screws holding it down.

Thanks.
BVB
#21
8th April 2006
Old 8th April 2006
  #21
BVB
Gear maniac
 

Yes , the whole tonewheel generator has to hang up freely by the springs.
There are a few screws that you can tighten up when you move the M3 from place to place.
I don't know how many (because I closed the back to prevent someone to drop a guitar or something on the tubes) , but I think 4 or 6.
Does it make noise when you turn the flying wheel by hand too ?

I am very lucky with mine because a friend of mine , who used to work for Hammond Belgium , serviced it.

Anyway , if you need some spares , Goff is a good place to look.
http://www.goffprof.com/index.jsp

Greets
Paul
BVB Recording
#22
9th April 2006
Old 9th April 2006
  #22
Gear interested
 

Yeah the Goff Proffessional guys are pretty good.

I'd like to also suggest Tonewheel General Hospital.
They're in Kansas City, but worth a ring wherever you are.

Best of luck...it will all be worth it when you get it spinning.
FunkFaker
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#23
9th April 2006
Old 9th April 2006
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I ordered some very slutty deoxit, compressed air and hammond oil!

Thanks again everyone!

tommy
#24
9th April 2006
Old 9th April 2006
  #24
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archtop's Avatar
 

Bearing screech.

Hammond oil.


let it sit.



No WD-40.

The screech on my M-2 has come and gone, twice.



over oil.
#25
9th April 2006
Old 9th April 2006
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BVB
Did you turned loose the (transport) screws under the tone generator ?

Greets

Paul

That's not going to be the source of the noise, so why is that even relevant?
BVB
#26
9th April 2006
Old 9th April 2006
  #26
BVB
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Just trying to be helpful Mr Wise Guy.
FunkFaker
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#27
17th April 2006
Old 17th April 2006
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Hi all,

I just got my hammond oil from Speakeasy Vintage Music. I see the three spouts for the oil, however; I'm unsure of the procedure for adding it.

Do I fill them up once or twice, since it doesn't seem to have been oiled up for a frighteningly long time?

Do I have the organ running while I do so? If not, how long should I wait to turn it on?

Thanks for all of your help so far. There is a ways to go before this baby gets into tip-top, but I'm ready to get her singin!

Tommy
C/G
#28
17th April 2006
Old 17th April 2006
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C/G
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[QUOTE=3octaves&a5th]

I certainly would recommend against reckless application of WD40.[QUOTE]

No to the WD40 here as well. It dissolves oil and grease. I used a 3 in 1 oil on our M1. It sqeaked and squealed, even days after liberal application of oil and then one day all was quiet. Good luck.
FunkFaker
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#29
17th April 2006
Old 17th April 2006
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No to the WD40 here as well. It dissolves oil and grease. I used a 3 in 1 oil on our M1. It sqeaked and squealed, even days after liberal application of oil and then one day all was quiet. Good luck.[/QUOTE]


no prob, just got the oil, but need directions for application, specific to the M3. as above your post.

thanks for the echo against wd40, tho!

-t
C/G
#30
17th April 2006
Old 17th April 2006
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C/G
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There should be 3 or 4 plastic funnels in the back, behind the cover. They are right at the top, on the sealed or semi sealed mechanism where all the bearings, tone bar are ect. I'm just going by memory here and have not looked in it for a while.
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